Reputation system

I've been trying to think of some ways of improving the use of the reputation system into the game. This is a series of capped racial reputations set at char creations.

For example, all dwarves will automatically hate all duergar from char creation. Furthermore, you may NOT group with races that you hate. This means that a neutral dwarf cannot group with an evil duergar (which I sometimes see and hate). Rangers may NOT group with racial enemies. Likewise for feral/werebeast.

This can obviously be hugely expanded upon by setting each race with its feelings MAX feelings towards each other race. For example, half-elves might AT BEST have neutral relations with elves.

These kind of additions will really play up the racial roles, instead of having a bunch of humans with different perks and stats.

The major problem I see is with ranking and autoattacking. This can be fixed by changing the major ranking mobs' race to MOB. This will hurt blm/monk anat training unfortunately. Also, an autoattack cap could be put in place so that you will not be autoattacked unless the mob is within 5 levels.

These are the major ones:

elf---drow HATE (racial oppposite)

dwarf---duergar HATE (racial opposite)

feral---werebeast HATE (cursed vs blessed of gaia)

storm---fire HATE? (racial opposite)

More might include the align polars:

elf/storm/faerie---duergar/drow/fire/illithid/troll/demon/vampire/lich AWFUL? (align opposite--hate is too much? I don't think so but...)

Other random ones might include:

human---werebeast bad

human---feral bad

dwarf---elf neutral

drow---duergar neutral

ogre---faerie neutral

fire---feral bad

half-elf---human/elf neutral

..you get the point.

The particular race combos aren't important and can be decided upon by the imms...but what do you think of incorporating a stronger reputation system in this general direction?

edit: Two changes..I'm thinking that auto attack within 5 is probably better than autoattack within 9. Also, the point of setting a cap at bad or awful is so that while the race isn't going start out hating you..if you start killing them it is very easy to push it into the hate level (which we almost never see in pk right now)

I don't understand why Rangers have to have a racial enemy. Just 'cause they're backwoods kinda guys doesn't mean they're racists.

:-P

I don't really like the idea of enforcing roleplay like this, as there always can be exceptions.

I like Celerity's idea and -completely- agree with her statement that we essentially have 'a bunch of humans with different perks and stats.' We need something to encourage and establish a more consistent set of cultural and racial norms. I think this is a basic enough outline of one type of racial norm as to not restrict rp. When we have too many exceptions, there really isn't a cohesive idea of what each race should be nor any sort of community within a race.

I'd agree with you, Isadora, but my experiences lately have led me to think otherwise. I've seen a LOT of people playing solidly racial characters. Taeim and Lerris as the Echarai, for instance. I've seen numerous drow, elf, fire giant, storm giant, and other race characters sticking solidly to racial tones and ideals. I've seen plenty instances of racism, and plenty instances of good RP explaining why that racism isn't there when you'd expect it to be. I think things are fine the way they are.

But that's just me.

I think another idea of implementing race difference is to have difference race tongues. That way kind of like WOW, two races who cannot understand each other is bound to hate each other. Of course there will be a common tongue which all races will understand and perhaps one will be able to learn another language to a certain proficiency.

For celerity's idea, its not bad, but I feel that for some of the classifications its a little extreme and takes away some flexibility for roleplay. But I also think that in FL race really takes a backseat to the good/evil distinction, so I think more emphasis on race difference in interactions would be nice.

I don't really like the idea of enforcing roleplay like this' date=' as there always can be exceptions.[/quote']

The question is, when does the exception become the norm?

I remember a time when every darn gnome was a mass-PK'er, and they'd all have some weird random excuse for it that would excuse them as being an exception. Pissed the hell out of a lot of people.

I like this idea to an extent.

The racial tongue thing is an idea that I LOVE, and have always wanted, truth be told. It's one of the small things that could add so so so so much to RP.

The ida of a racial language is exelent.

I can imagine elves speakign in elfic.

We can take Mume system (another old school mud - LoTR) and aply it.

Basicaly you have the common tongue and then racial tongues.

Elfs know elfic + common.

Humans know common.

Drow speak drowish.

Beasts have forest language.

etc....

Basicaly:

dumb races speak common.

Mage races have racial.

Then languages work as skills/spells.

Everyone has a certain percentage at character creations that inproves with training. By listening to the language or speaking it (very hard, dont want people training this solo).

You chose your language and can change it at any times.

When you listen someone speaking a language you do not master you learn a bit and the language get scrambled like ogre speak.

So you could learn all languages, but it would be harder to dumb races.

Mage races have bonus to languages.

Some races would start with more language % than others.

It would be fun to see a elf and a drow talking and having them not understand one another because none of them wishes to lower them selves to speak common. Insane RP potencial.

Hard core PKers can just use common and not complain.

Also some languages can be quite hard to learn.

Forest language quite hard, but rangers/druids get a bonus.

Elvic/drowish, quite hard.

Squid language -> Insane.

That'd be a bit too much coding, I think. I have a simpler idea I'll propose to Iru later...

Raargant wants his own language!

i can see people under 10 never getting a group because nobody knows what the hell everyone else is saying.

RP potential- huge.

practicality- minimal.

There would still be a 'common'. Speaking in other languages would be an 'add on', as opposed to a replacement.

Drow1 (Common)- shall we make one more pass?

Human (Common)- sure.

Drow2 (Drowish)- oh let's just kill him. he annoys me.

Drow1 (Drowish)- good idea.

Human (Common)- ...

if it works like this, then i guess i could live with it.

Or you could just use tells...

Drow1 (Common)- shall we make one more pass?

Human (Common)- sure.

Drow2 (Drowish)- oh let's just kill him. he annoys me.

Drow1 (Drowish)- good idea.

Human (Common)- ...

if it works like this, then i guess i could live with it.

Bingo. That's exactly how I was envisioning it. Except instead of ... for the human, something like, 'Hey, what did you say, guys?' Followed by Drow2, 'Just how much we enjoy your company' in common.

Bingo. That's exactly how I was envisioning it. Except instead of ... for the human' date=' something like, 'Hey, what did you say, guys?' Followed by Drow2, 'Just how much we enjoy your company' in common.[/quote'] Ooooh I *love *this idea!

Edit: Would provide a reason to train 'comprehend languages' other than getting rid of the ogre-speech annoyance (or low-level spell-ranking).

I like both the reputation and racial tongue ideas.

Would there be a feasible workaround though, for exceptions? I don't mean exception as in, "I'm an Elf but I love Drow unlike the rest of my family." but more like, restrings for example - if a Neutral Dwarf was restrung to some something else, for example, a Cookie Monster, it wouldn't neccessarily have a racial hate towards Duergar if you see what I mean.

Granted, it's not a big issue or anything that would significantly detract from the good idea, but just something I was thinking about.

Dey

My biggest question is, is the reputation how much you hate others or how much others hate you.

If it is how much you hate others then there really can be no RP exceptions it terms of ranking and stuff because racial hate is not something that people simply get over.

More likely it is how much everyone of that race feels about you. Being as mobs attack you when you have a hate, this is a safe bet. However, If an entire race hates you dont you think that a character would be very very warry of someone with that reputation? If every one else hates you there is very little likelyhood that they are going to group with you.

Is it a rigid enforced RP system? Yep. But I also think we need a bit more Enforced RP anyway.

I really hate the idea of changing the reputation system like this. This is something that needs to be a choice for the character. NOT enforced. If the Imms want a change, they should be slightly more strict as far as RP goes.

But to code it? No way. I am 100% against. Good characters and good RP will use racism at times, and not others. Would an Elven Avatar hate half-elves? No way, hes an avatar now.

Remember Orealt? He was racist when he was "younger" then grew out of it. Very good RP. With this system, you couldn't develop your character the way you want to.

Though I do like the language idea, but I think it shouldn't be too complex. And everyone should start out speaking common, for newbies. Also, everyone should have 100% in common.

Illithids should NOT have a language. They are not even supposed to speak. They are telepathic. The only reason they aren't telepathic at "birth" is because some people don't like it and they don't want to discourage people to play them, since they aren't too common anyway.

Would there be a feasible workaround though, for exceptions? I don't mean exception as in, "I'm an Elf but I love Drow unlike the rest of my family." but more like, restrings for example - if a Neutral Dwarf was restrung to some something else, for example, a Cookie Monster, it wouldn't neccessarily have a racial hate towards Duergar if you see what I mean.

This is a PK problem I think. It is similar to if you had a base race of 'elf' and wanted to play a neutral forest 'nymph'. You can't easily use qraces to get out of the confines of the baserace (I want my autofly, size huge, 25 str/int dragon...but I'm stuck with my human or avian.) Reputation would work the same way; if a neutral race was wanted that would be on good relations with everyone, a very 'standard' race is the way to go. If you want the perks/stats of a certain race AND your qrace, probably will have take the flaws/stats of that race also. This includes reputation. Basically, since reputation does affect balance, it must be lumped with all the other stats that affect it, and will be difficult to change for a qrace.

Would an Elven Avatar hate half-elves? No way, hes an avatar now.

No, this is why elves and half-elves do not start out at HATE level. Would they be 100% happy with each other? Almost certainly not.

Now would an elf avatar be anything except HATE to a drow?

Dwarf and duergar? Feral and werebeast? Storm and fire? These are the only hates I suggested.

The others simply prevent you from being on EXCELLENT, GOOD, or even NEUTRAL terms..you can still group/work together even at AWFUL. The point is that even if another race doesn't start out hostile to you (like human and feral)..if you go around causing trouble with that race, your reputation lowers. Since it starts out bad (already suspicious of your race), it is much faster to get down into that hate level. You can easily play a human that gets along with feral..just you won't ever be accepted on EXCELLENT terms by the feral race. If you never attack a feral, you should never go down into the HATE range.

With this system, you couldn't develop your character the way you want to.

Free reign of creativity isn't always good. I can't make a WWII rifleman for my char...the point is that parameters on RP aren't always bad..and these are very very broad parameters.

Likewise, even if you are the MOST friendly dwarf towards duergar..the duergar themselves will most likely not return those feelings and the relationship would be the same. This is showing that interracial relationships are based on more than the individual's (ESPECIALLY if a racial deviant is what you want to play) thoughts. So yeah, you CAN try to play that dwarf that gets along with duergar, but it should be a lot harder to do than it is now.

This isn't limiting RP so much as to putting it into a world context.

My biggest question is, is the reputation how much you hate others or how much others hate you.

It is my understanding that reputation measures how much the race likes YOU, not the other way around. This can be based on either racial or individual actions. For example, the ogreslaying ranger is going to be hated by ogres because of her individual anti-ogre actions. However, the drow are hated as a whole by the whole of the elf race, regardless if the individual has done anything wrong in particular. You can try to get around it, but preconceptions, stereotypes, and plain bigotism are hard to get around (as our RL world has shown).

--

I have mixed feelings about racial languages especially concerning practices and usefulness. I've seen them in other MUDs, but I don't think they were executed well. I'd really like to see them, but ONLY if they were done well (I can't think of a way to do that off hand)..BUT that is for another thread..not my reputation thread!