Imoutgoodbye Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I see you! I see you! I see you! MWAHAHAHAHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yeah, been gone since my laptop died in Feb. I was planning a come back then... but now I'm not so sure. Some of the changes are too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yeah' date=' been gone since my laptop died in Feb. I was planning a come back then... but now I'm not so sure. Some of the changes are too much.[/quote'] *shrug* It has some issues I see that will come up, but the system doesn't actually cater to any one person. I'd like to see the rares for the moderates dropped slightly, but moderate melees need more, so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Child Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I've only actually seen one blue so far so I'm not TOO worried yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 if they can have more rares than I can loot, it's automatically out of balance in my opinion. The changes I don't like have been stacking up faster than the changes I like. It's gotten to the point where they've changed specific things I was looking for when I found FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 if they can have more rares than I can loot' date=' it's automatically out of balance in my opinion. The changes I don't like have been stacking up faster than the changes I like. It's gotten to the point where they've changed specific things I was looking for when I found FL.[/quote'] The TTPK system (when it finally does what it's supposed to, because it will take time) should get most people over to the Ruthless category. It will eventually put us back where FL started, but with a larger playerbase. It's the Cycle of Death. That's the theory anyways. A boy goes to his dad and says, "Dad, I'm having trouble understanding theory and reality in school. It's a tough subject." The dad says, "Well, go into the house and ask your mom, sister, and brother if they'd sleep with the mail man for $500, 000.00." Boy goes to his mom and says, "Would you sleep with the mailman for five hundred thousand dollars?" "Hell, yes, " says the Mom. Boy goes to his sister and gets the same response. Boy goes to his brother who has to think, but eventually comes to the same conclusion as the mom and sister. So, the boy goes back to his dad and tells him what they all said. "Well," says the Dad, "In theory, we're sitting on 1.5 million dollars. In reality, we're living with two whores and a fag." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Child Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Well put sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I've always loved that joke. And I don't see what problem this solution is fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I've always loved that joke. And I don't see what problem this solution is fixing. Right now, nothing. Eventually, a larger player base...and my kid won't sit still...hard to type with a kid in your lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I've always loved that joke. And I don't see what problem this solution is fixing. Players leaving because they get full looted. Don't shoot the messenger - I'm just stating the argument. No saying I necessarily see it as a problem. I'm from (almost) the same place you're from when it comes to looting - which is I full loot and expect it done to me. I suppose I'll be playing hardcore even though with the small amount of rares I ever get I'm only knee capping myself. You shouldn't let that stop you from coming back though - just think of the torture of that person to lose their rares two by two by two.... You can't tell me that you wouldn't be sitting at your screen laughing as they progressively began to lose the plot because you keep rolling them.... :-D L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Its become alot harder to full loot since you cant just use a golem I am a sad panda. I used to carry around those scrolls just for that purpose and then sac 1. everything it couldn't touch. Yes I am an arsehole, however, it did, and still does, happen to me. Since my return from a many year hiatus, I have had more items looted then I have looted. And I've killed lots more then I've died. However, if I could use a golem, well, the situation may be different Perhaps now their is the moderate teir we can bring the golems back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Just set a hotkey: get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. get 1. corpse;drop 1.;sac 1. Take what you want, hit the key three times and you're done. :-D L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 You guys are retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Attitudes like this ruin the fun for everyone. This is exactly why we need this change. The problem is we have people full looting and multikilling newbies or people just less skilled than them and telling them to suck it up. We have people attacking enemies they have just killed and sacrificing the 4 pieces of mithril they have managed to acquire. This type of play is utter trash and I am glad there is something coded to help prevent it. EDIT: Nothing against you guys but I very much dislike that old mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 This type of play is utter trash and I am glad there is something coded to help prevent it. The problem with this statement is that many people, myself included, feel that certain RP situations require one to annihilate the existence of another being. Not just stop him from being a threat, not just weaken him, but destroy him utterly. If his god thinks he's worth bringing back, to kill him again and again just to convince the god to stop wasting his time with such a worthless subject. I fully agree that from a perspective as players of a game, many find this off-putting. I fully agree that it chases players away. I fully agree that far too many times this is an excuse, and not what anyone would really consider to be well-developed RP, rather than what it should be - a true bloodthirsty, malevolent, all-consuming hatred between powerful beings (frankly, I think this one to be the greatest problem - were it more often RPed well, but with the same level of hostility and mercilessness, I think constant killing would not bother people nearly as much). I understand why it causes problems. I'm asking you to understand why many of us think it is so important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Oh, I understand Pali. I just think it is utter crap. You could just as easily RP a character that wants to utterly destroy someone or whatever and not full loot/sac. It is not an issue of RP but play style. If anyone says it is their RP to full loot/sac then they are just making an excuse and calling it RP. It is not RP. RP is much stronger than that. EDIT: I should add. I am not against full looting when the situation calls for it. Was it an incredibly close battle? Did you manage to take down the current bane of the pbase? Is the player in question a ganger or does other crappy things? I am merely against full looting for the sake of full looting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Well, this was brought to my attention, so chew on this: A disadvantage Ruthless players will have. Finally taking down a moderate that was a severely tough battle (don't laugh, it will happen) and then having another Ruthless come along and kill you and take ALL you have. You'll have to excuse me if I crank it up a notch myself on the looting on the Ruthless tier. Edit: I never confuse me with my Scourge character. RP is RP. War is war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 That happened before this. Why not after? While this is very bad play for the guy coming in and attacking the other guy. Though I don't see the argument you are making. Are you saying because you weren't able to full loot the first guy the third guy was able to kill you? :confused: Not quite logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Oh, I understand Pali. I just think it is utter crap. You could just as easily RP a character that wants to utterly destroy someone or whatever and not full loot/sac. It is not an issue of RP but play style. If anyone says it is their RP to full loot/sac then they are just making an excuse and calling it RP. It is not RP. RP is much stronger than that. I respectfully disagree. I have just slain a foe who is wearing magical armors of great value. I KNOW that this foe's death is not permanent, because I live in a world where gods bring their valued servants back to life on a daily basis. I know that this foe would still find these armors to be of use should I leave them for him, and that he is very likely to return to obtain them. Why would I ever just leave them there for him? I loathe this person. I want nothing more than their utter destruction and ruin. I don't care to draw it out and make it painful, or to make sure they first recognize my superiority or that my ideology/religion is right, I just want them GONE, finished, nonexistent, and I will take every step that will help me towards that goal. If that means spending a little time stripping his corpse so that when he gets back he won't find anything of use, so that when I find him again it'll be that much easier for me to kill him, why would I ever not do it? Yes, it is a choice to roleplay a character this way. But it IS roleplay. It is roleplay that, when done well, is part of what has always been one of the main draws for me of FL: that it is an incredibly dangerous world with dizzying heights and devastating falls. To say that it's not roleplay just because it a) causes behavior you don't like, chases newbies away, and c) is often used as a minimal screen to hide a desire to PK behind is disingenuous. It does those things, I don't deny it. I hate that it does those things, because I hold a great value for this kind of roleplay when it is done well, but I recognize that they are the consequences. As I've said before, I even support the new tier system because a heightened playerbase will help make this game fun more than this small extra level of danger being a required experience for everyone will. When you say it causes problems, you're right. When you say it's never roleplaying, you are dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 That happened before this. Why not after? While this is very bad play for the guy coming in and attacking the other guy. Though I don't see the argument you are making. Are you saying because you weren't able to full loot the first guy the third guy was able to kill you? :confused: Not quite logical. Risk vs. Reward. I'm not going to actively hunt moderate players. There's little reward in it for me. I finish him off, I get, what? 2 rares? Third guy comes in and gets an easy kill off me, he gets everything. And it's not bad play on his part. Not in my book anyways. And trust me, I have a big book. I'm just pointing out something some old schoolers may not like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Risk vs. Reward. From a PK perspective, you're right. From an RP perspective, risk vs reward is unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Pali, by that logic all goodies(with this similar RP) should start huge gangs and go kill all evils full loot/sac. Would you call that great RP? RP is much deeper than these things. And by no means is the RP you speak of forced to full loot/sac. It is a personal choice on playstyle and I think it a bad one. We are not going to agree on this. Though, Pali, you can RP anything you want and call it RP. Is it good? Is it necessary? Are you doing it solely for RP purposes? What about the game? This sort of behavior is trash. Take that how you will. EDIT: RE Risk vs. Reward: The ONLY issue I can see is a moderate player using mercy on a Ruthless char and calling a ruthless buddy to finish him off to full loot. Though that would be fixed by sending a note to immortal regarding abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 From a PK perspective' date=' you're right. From an RP perspective, risk vs reward is unchanged.[/quote'] touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 We are not going to agree on this. I was going to write up a long reply, but frankly a statement like this is as much an end to discussion as invoking faith is and I have no interest in wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGuy Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 The penalty for being a moderate char is quite high. Only noobs or people who suck at PK will play them, and thus, it shouldn't be so bothersome. I haven't read all of the topic, but also, a comment on the RP problem. Why would it be a problem? You can't, that's it. So from a RP pov, you would if you could. Just as you would kill level one characters if you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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