Guest emp_newb Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I dunno if it has been said before, but do monks get a more buffed trip? I cannot understand how a monk can lag lock a small size creature with bolt thrash trip so reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Pretty sure monk trip is slightly superior to the trip other classes have (if nothing else it is certainly more reliable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibber Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 There was a phantasmal dragon through all of that, plus a special disarm. It wasn't the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've seen a human monk trip lock an elf thief with little problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 With my monk, I've never laglocked and subsequently killed anybody in a perfect regular triplock where there wasn't player error (them using skills/spells) or chakeras at the right time (extremely rare, given how they need to land towards the end of trip wearing off). The message relayed to the monk using the trip skill is slightly different to any other class that gets trip. Not sure if it's buffed or not, but if it is, can't be by a lot. Dey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 My monk was easily able to triplock people reliably. Of course, undead skills helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhokril Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 do monks get a more buffed trip? No. You just need to watch for and be mindful of the other effects which some people have already mentioned which can quickly put you in trouble. And make sure not to spam also. When I fight monks I take it literally one skill at a time, and I wait to put the skill in until I know that I'm not going to get lagged right before it goes through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hard to do, considering the spontaneous nature of monk lagging. You COULD be lagged any round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhokril Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I was referring to putting in a skill and then being lagged before your skill goes through. Monk lag occurs either through use of their skill, or in the middle of a round. You can time the use of their skills and you cannot use your own skills in the middle of a round, so no, it is not spontaneous as far as the tactic I mentioned goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Yeah, however, there are instances when your skills just miss the current round, or for people who play from abroad, crap latency, that causes problems. Still, it doesn't matter if your skill goes through or not if they lag you the remainder of the fight, it just means your skill goes through now, instead of when you reach your pit. Unless you are talking about having a skill come through later in a small opportunity to flee. I see what you mean, but, if they are beating your arse down and you cant get a command in to even defend yourself or start to fight back, then it is only a matter of time before luck takes their fancy and they get a complete lock. I don't really care, I've not been killed by any monks, infact, I have more of an issue with blademasters and some of their skills. I can however see where some of these people are coming from. As Neraldis, I lagged ALOT of people (healers, clerics) from full to zero. I prob still got a heap of logs around. Oh, and I NEVER used air thrash or trip. All my locks were pure chakera. I dont recall air thrash being that good back then? Has it always lagged the person being thrashed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhokril Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I would be interested to see the logs if you can find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 No Toten. Air thrash was toned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I see. Well, I had a look through the logs and I was wrong. There were only a handful of wins of pure lag lock, and these were against opponents without sanc. Most of my opponents never got to flee at the end though, ie, I didn't have to chase. I never used to chii bolt as an opener, I'd save it until a time that I thought was opportune. Once it was used, they generally died before combined lag from that and a chakera etc that happened in the following couple of rounds finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 No. You just need to watch for and be mindful of the other effects which some people have already mentioned which can quickly put you in trouble. And make sure not to spam also. When I fight monks I take it literally one skill at a time' date=' and I wait to put the skill in until I know that I'm not going to get lagged right before it goes through.[/quote'] I tried to enter 1 flee the ENTIRE fight. he ran in and bolted, I then typed flee. That was the only command I tried to enter the entire fight I had with him. I definately did not spam, stack commands, or try to cast a spell. I just watched as my hp flew away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 There was a phantasmal dragon through all of that' date=' plus a special disarm. It wasn't the trip.[/quote'] even so, lagging someone for over 8-10 rounds without them getting to enter a single command is a bit much. I can understand how a monk fights, and realize that it is a completely viable tactic, and requires more than just spamming dirs to get it to work properly. But I will be damned I really got not a single command to go through. Lagged from chii bolt, which also drops AC buffs, prot shield, and elemental shield. Lagged from Disarm (which is a noremove anyway, which came off first try) lagged from air thrash, lagged from MELEE COMBAT, lagged from trip. How the hell is a caster supposed to do anything vs that. I think maybe they should just get a normal trip, and maybe have it to where bolt does not cause bash lag and neutralize my protective shield, all my ac buffs, and my elemental shield. I was reviewing the fight from last night and literally, I entered 1 command, that was flee, and it did not go through until I was at my pit. I have bashed halfer thieves with an enlarged fire giant, and was unable to maintain a lock like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Monk's trip is the same as other classes' trip. Problem is (from what I've seen) that they have quite a nice lag from the chii bolt. Then that extends with the air thrash, EVEN if the air thrash is not successful, it still lags. That is a bit rediculous I think. Also, I've NEVER seen a chii bolt miss, and when it lands it drops not only the protective shield (which I think is okay), but it also drops shield and armor. On the other hand, I've never had any problems with ANY monks. Usually, their trip does not lock you. You can enter exactly 1 command between the trips. Most of my deaths against monks have been exactly for the reason Zhokril stated - I flee, then I spam directions which often leads to me entering their room again and then I get locked due to the spammed directions. This here, I am talking about drows mostly. If you play a giant sized race, then a completely laglock is logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=13743 http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=11539 http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=2633 http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=11538 I also did not bring in the Harishin pk logs because zrothum was purposefully posting logs he got obliterated in in an attempt to complain that monks suck. Also Mhelkin, but his pk logs had quite a few mistakes in each of them. I basically found the pk logs put out by veteran players, who know the game, so it is not a question of eq nearly as much as it is a question of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 For me, the problem with monks seems to be that there is no reason to NOT go dragon (or very occassionally crane/horse) 95% of the time. The stances aren't really balanced with each other. Basically, super size + noremove disarm + offhand parry + dragon super chakeras (+ even super kicks) = stance of choice for most any fight You will never see tiger/buddha in serious pk. Monkey has become rare because people don't rely on chakeras as much to lag anymore (due to the air thrash change) In those logs, the caster/blm made some serious mistakes and could have easily lived (but not the tribunal vs nexus one) Although, yes I agree, I don't exactly like fighting monks. I haven't been laglocked yet, but I've been hit with 3 dragons (those dragons hit A LOT!) during a laglock before (and numerous fights to live with less than 40 hp, only surviving from wimpy flee and 100% defensive fighting + a lot of consumable prep) 6-7+ rounds is a long time to be laglocked against dragon melee for most characters I think (I know I can barely survive that with the chars I play). But, like I said, they haven't actually landed the lock 100% on me yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouselessRogue Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 The monks tone ups have come in offensive form. I think it would be better suited to look at the defensive forms (which need adjusting) and revert the offensive back to the way they were. Celerity is hitting it right on the money. Dragon, dragon, dragon. Why do anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Personally I love fighting warriors in horse stance. I fought an ogre zerk dual wielding magical axes once. Ahhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WagesofSin Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 If my anecdotal evidence is of any use, I never had a problem with Monks, and was even able to kill a competent barbarian monk(Weituo) with one of my shamans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I saw a log of weituo perfectly laglocking a decked drow DK for well over 30 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhokril Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I saw a log of weituo perfectly laglocking a decked drow DK for well over 30 rounds. I'll once again bring out my "Barbarian Monk" clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbox Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I'll once again bring out my "Barbarian Monk" clause. barbarian monk and pando shaman piss me off more than anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibber Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 For me, the problem with monks seems to be that there is no reason to NOT go dragon (or very occassionally crane/horse) 95% of the time. The stances aren't really balanced with each other. Basically, super size + noremove disarm + offhand parry + dragon super chakeras (+ even super kicks) = stance of choice for most any fight You will never see tiger/buddha in serious pk. Monkey has become rare because people don't rely on chakeras as much to lag anymore (due to the air thrash change) In those logs, the caster/blm made some serious mistakes and could have easily lived (but not the tribunal vs nexus one) Although, yes I agree, I don't exactly like fighting monks. I haven't been laglocked yet, but I've been hit with 3 dragons (those dragons hit A LOT!) during a laglock before (and numerous fights to live with less than 40 hp, only surviving from wimpy flee and 100% defensive fighting + a lot of consumable prep) 6-7+ rounds is a long time to be laglocked against dragon melee for most characters I think (I know I can barely survive that with the chars I play). But, like I said, they haven't actually landed the lock 100% on me yet. I've played a few successful monks, and have never stuck with just one stance. If you do, you know its death in most cases. I've switched around stances PLENTY of times against my opponents to screw the crap out of them or to confuse them into think I was going to do one thing, but do another. The only stance I hardly ever use is... Oh wait, I use them all. And buddha is at 89%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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