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For those who think the Wii the most innovative...


Pali

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I didn't click the link, but I assume you are talking about project Natal?

Yes, I have seen the video it is awesome in theory. I own a wii and an xbox360, sold my ps3 and looking for a buyer for my wii cause the wife doesn't play it anymore. I don't know though, it just seems like it won't be as awesome as it sounds. I will still get it though, duh.

EDIT: It's a rumor that developers from the wii worked with microsoft on this.

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Yeah.. i watched all the major press conferences live... i was like meh on Natal for a couple of reasons...

1. This is true for the wii too... but you look like a total uncoordinated douche when you use the damn thing... exhibit #1

2ylljrs.gif

2. Natal may have some problems recognizin black people... no really(btw that website has some nsfw content if you click around). So uhh.... yeah hahaha. Im sure this is gunna be fixed.. but i just really thought it was funny imagining N'Gai bein like "wtf is going on?"

3. Natal is rumored to actually be a new system on its own that you'd have to buy.... wait what? Yeah.. that totally sounds like something M$ would do... maybe this time they'll fix their hardware issues before releasing a broken system... naaaaahhh.

4. Am i the only one who likes to relax when he plays video games? I mean... i got a gym membership... i lift weights 3-5 times a week... when i want to work up a sweat i get off the couch and go out. Why would i want to play a video game where i gotta make the guy kick by doing kicks myself?

On the positive side tho... it works awesome as a remote control. Id love to see this being used to control tvs... voice recognition + hand motions... that has win written all over it. When it comes to games though... give me that controller.

But yeah... overall... Translator Guy does a good job of summing up my reaction to Natal:

translatorkun.jpg

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Iconz - Man i love the translator guy meme... almost as much as keyboard cat...

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1. This is true for the wii too... but you look like a total uncoordinated douche when you use the damn thing... exhibit #1

I'm willing to bet this will depend heavily on what game you are playing.

3. Natal is rumored to actually be a new system on its own that you'd have to buy.... wait what?

You should read your own links more closely... from it: "Microsoft will not only release Natal as an add-on for the Xbox 360, it will come standard with the next Xbox console." Also, according to IGN which got some hands-on experience, it works just fine with current 360s.

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Disclaimer: This is a conspiracy rant. I don't believe in many conspiracies, but this is one I'm concocting after being up almost 23 hours.

omfg....

Seriously, people need to learn the joys of exercise FOR the joys to be found in exercise.

What is this, a government conspiracy?

1. Regulate auto-industry: Done.

2. Regulate banks: Done.

3. Regulate home market: Done.

4. Regulate tobacco industry/smoking: Nearly done.

5. Regulate health care: On the docket.

6. Regulate exercise through video games: ?????

Man, I was all for government controlled health care, but we're just a few steps from communism. Big Brother is pushing everything from behind the scenes and it all started with that stupid ESRB rating system. Too bad the explicit warning labels on CD's blew up in their faces. :cool: Take that and cram it, Tipper Gore.

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I'm willing to bet this will depend heavily on what game you are playing.

You should read your own links more closely... from it: "Microsoft will not only release Natal as an add-on for the Xbox 360, it will come standard with the next Xbox console." Also, according to IGN which got some hands-on experience, it works just fine with current 360s.

I read the article closely (and from several different sources) before i posted it. There are a bunch of conflictin stories right now b/c its a rumor that is just now getting some buzz... the link that i posted had more information (i.e. guess work) which is why i posted that link instead. Others claimed it would be a stand-alone system... and others claimed it would be a bundle... For all we know it could just be industry posturin.

The point bein that if its true... M$ is gunna want people to buy this repackaged deal instead of just adding it on to what you have now. Its only a rumor for now... but i wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Oh and if you think that this thing is -really- gunna work smoothly w/ the system you have now then i think youre givin M$ way too much credit. Theres a reason why they held the only demos of this thing behind TIGHT closed doors... refusing to let anyone take pictures of the thing at work. This is the same guys who couldnt even get a lot of their last gen games compatible... the same guys who knowingly put out a system that at one point had a failure rate as high as 68%... because yeah... M$ is really well known for its hardware :rolleyes:. You think that this thing is not goin to cause all sorts of meltdowns? I think when (or IF) they come out w/ their new repacked 360 its gunna be b/c they are trying to fix most of the errors that they shouldve fixed before they launched in the first place.

I think alot of this Natal thing has the potential to really be vaporware... take Milo for example. Its kinda ironic that the mouthpiece for this thing is Molyneux (remember the Fable I hype?)... I would think they would have gone with someone else for this thing (Spielberg is definitely no better and looked horribly out of place at E3). Dont get it twisted tho... i thought the presentation was impressive in terms of software (having natal actually being able to quickly scan a drawing that Milo can interpret)... but i also thought it was creeeeeeeepy. I dont need an imaginary friend... thanks but no thanks to Skynet hahaha.

(Quick plug: This puzzle game

is lookin/sounding AWESOME!
!)

Just so i dont sound like a fanboy... i do have an original Xbox and i do plan on buying a 360 sometime in the future. The only reason is b/c i love Bioware. Bioware was the reason i bought my first xbox (KOTR+Jade Empire)... and they are gunna be the reason why i buy a 360 (Mass Effect). Although now that i got a new graphics card + power source on my desktop... i might just spring for Mass Effect 1&2 on the comp instead... havent made up my mind.

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Iconz - Ever wondered what the bottom of an avatar's shoe looks like... Me neither...

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What happened to getting outside, meeting people and enjoying nature? I always go for my runs in the woods near my house instead of the track in town and can't imagine doing a work out video game in my living room. I play to relax ...unless I'm playing a shooter.

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The point bein that if its true... M$ is gunna want people to buy this repackaged deal instead of just adding it on to what you have now. Its only a rumor for now... but i wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Oh and if you think that this thing is -really- gunna work smoothly w/ the system you have now then i think youre givin M$ way too much credit.

I don't care what Microsoft says about it. I care what others say about it... like "It's nowhere near the gimmicky device I originally took it for and the fact that it works already on a retail Xbox 360 (Burnout was running on an "out of the store" model, no debugs or special systems required) says a lot about its current stage of development." from the IGN article.

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Companies that want to develop a game on the Wii have to develop it based around the unique features of the Wii. (I suppose you can make it without, but then your developing for gamecube or super nintendo again.)

Making an addon for the xbox or ps means it an opt in and not a requirement for developing. Companies can produce a novelty game for the xbox 360 with this that only people with the add on can play, or they can produce traditional games with a track record for sales that everyone who ones the 360 can play. I smell vaporware. Microsoft and Sony are getting pounded on sales, and instead of addressing the issue that are trying to play the gimmick game. It's not the lack of motion control that keeps me from buying an xbox or ps3, it the price and the games, the games are rehashes and for the most part not original, and I don't want to buy an all in one entertainment system with home theater options, I just want a ****ing game console. Microsoft and Sony started racing for the prize in the dick measuring contest, Nintendo just walked in, picked up the prize, and left without dropping it's pants.

Is the Wii a better console? I don't think so, it's different, but not better. I don't think the Wii has as much longevity as traditional consoles, but hopefully its teaching Microsoft and Sony that better graphics and more features aren't enough, **** needs to be fun again. Fun in different ways than chopping some alien in half with a chainsaw fun.

Also, I bought a Wii for my mom, both her and my dad love it. There is no way they are going to play a 360 or PS3, that's the market Microsoft and Sony aren't going to get.

Sorry if this makes no sense, I'm tired and hungry.

http://penny-arcade.com/2009/6/5/

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/6/5/

The PA on the issue.

WC

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You know Pali... for a so called skeptic... it sure sounds like you got taken in by this hype machine. As many times as Microsoft lied and paid "independent" people to lie for them... i really dont think they deserve the benefit of the doubt...

HEAR HEAR DUBYA-C! Great link... this one 'specially summed up my feelings.

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Iconz - But I want my holodeck NOW!

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I suppose you failed to notice the "If this actually works like it does in this commercial, and is reasonably priced (VERY important)" caveats in my original post.

Yes, it's possible that this thing will fail horribly, despite appearances to the contrary thus far. It's also possible that Mass Effect 2 will be a crappy game, despite appearances to the contrary thus far. However, I'm quite willing to be excited about the potential and apparent greatness of both.

EDIT: For the record, a skeptic isn't someone who doesn't accept any idea. A skeptic is someone who requires evidence to accept an idea, and acceptance grows stronger as the evidence grows stronger. My acceptance of the idea that this seems awesome is based on the limited evidence I have available (namely, preview videos and articles). Unless there is evidence that they DO suck to contradict these videos and articles, tacit acceptance that they'll work well is valid.

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But is it possible that someday you'll post something based in logic that doesn't make you come across as the biggest condescending ******* on these forums? I thought I had that market shoaled up, guess I gotta work harder....

I'm not sure what is worse, militant atheists, fundamentalist theists, or video game fanboys.

Maybe if I bold things in my post... EVERYTHING WORKS FINE. Wait, that says Rumour? Yeah.. it does. But, that's okay. Because MS didn't say it... just someone else which is I guess all that it takes to make a skeptic believe. Aw ****.... I guess I'm late for church then...

a-g

Edit: Also, don't think I'm totally pissed. I'm actually glad you're sending neat links to the forum here about things most of us find interesting.

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*facepalm*

I post something that looks cool that I figure people here may be excited about, and in response I get a bunch of "It'll suck just because it's Microsoft" and "you're dumb for thinking it'll be cool" responses.

Grow the hell up, children.

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Your analogy is an epic fail... Mass Effect 2 has reason to be given the benefit of the doubt b/c the original Mass Effect was a great game... Dr. Muzyka and Dr. Zeschuk has given us no reason (yet) to doubt their success in the realm of RPGs (well... except maybe that Sonic game.. but i did hear some good things about it haha). Natal... on the other hand... is bein promoted by Molyneux (of the Fable I hype machine)... and promoted by Microsoft (of the vista and RROD failures). So.. while the greatness of Mass Effect was established... the greatness of Microsoft and Peter Molyneux is def in question (well... at least Molyneux gained some ground w/ Fable II from what I hear)...

For the record...I know what full well what skepticism is dude... I was a philosophy major... and what you are is a religious skeptic and not really a philosophical skeptic... b/c skepticism is defined as being "intellectually cautious and suspending judgment". You cant base acceptance on such crappy knowledge as a controlled showing... you withold acceptance until it is verifiable and well-tested (i.e. not behind air-tight doors w/ the hardware being manipulated by the people attempting to sell it to you). So if you want to ignore past evidence... and instead get excited by "puppet shows [Penny Arcade]" then i really have to point out the flaws in your philosophical understanding of skepticism homie.

I supposed you failed to notice my reasons in my original post... cuz i made it clear why i was "meh" on Natal... and backed it up with links. You cant constantly be condescending on other threads that have to do w/ religion... even questioning peoples intelligence... but then get all moody when one of your beliefs is questioned (with supporting facts and opinions i might add)...

I honestly dont even think anyone is stuipd for being excited about Natal... it was a good puppet show (Same w/ Sony's dild-- uhh... new motion controllers hehehe). I just happen to be really meh about the whole thing... so i decided to post my thoughts. Thats what people do on public forums right? hahaha.

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Iconz - Youre right tho... i shouldn't be trying to rain on anyone's parade... its very Pali of me hahaha :P .

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For the record...I know what full well what skepticism is dude... I was a philosophy major... and what you are is a religious skeptic and not really a philosophical skeptic... b/c skepticism is defined as being "intellectually cautious and suspending judgment". You cant base acceptance on such crappy knowledge as a controlled showing... you withold acceptance until it is verifiable and well-tested (i.e. not behind air-tight doors w/ the hardware being manipulated by the people attempting to sell it to you). So if you want to ignore past evidence... and instead get excited by "puppet shows [Penny Arcade]" then i really have to point out the flaws in your philosophical understanding of skepticism homie.

*shrugs* I go with what evidence is available, and the greater the evidence the greater the degree of acceptance. Here, I happily agree that the evidence is limited that Natal will be successful... as is my degree of acceptance (again, I point to the "if" in my original post and the conditional statements in my following posts). However, the evidence you presented that the project is flawed isn't convincing at all, as Natal's problems at recognizing black people seems a rare error (note A-G's link) and the other link stating it required a brand new system was simply incorrect.

As for Microsoft and Molyneux, you're again right that neither has a perfect record at keeping promises. However, both of them have done things right plenty of times as well (Fable II was fantastic, btw, although the multiplayer aspect was a little disappointing)... so the simple fact that they are behind it doesn't fly as reason to expect a failure in my estimation.

Where I agree with you 100% is that, despite the impressive potential of this technology, chances are that I won't be getting it for a long time (at least until they start creating games that I'd have an interest in that use it - not a single one shown actually appeals to me). What they could do with this kind of tech is infinitely greater than what they apparently are currently doing with it, and that is a shame. Milo, for instance, while technically impressive, is something I will likely have no interest in as an actual game.

Apologies if my last post was a bit short - had just been woken up by a call telling me that I needed to be at work in half an hour, and I wasn't in the best of moods.

EDIT: And perhaps a more accurate analogy than ME2 would be Assassin's Creed 2. ;)

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