Disarming - Unbalance.

[mya]

Lets speak about Weapon Disarming (shields to).

There was a time where no one could disarm your Cursed weapon.

It was a time where you would only need another weapon if you died.

Or when a mighty Berserker came in and cleaved it.

Or a powerful Invoker froze it to shards.

But you knew that the Berserker could never disarm it, so you just found a silly burn prof weapon and went along knowing that you would not be without it.

And although the mage could crack your weapon, it would never endanger your defence as Mages weapons hit as strongly as faerie berserkers.

Then came Blademaster, with their weird stances.

Then Monks and their dragon power could do it.

What i mean is that sudently your weapon become a consumable.

With the constant need to replace it.

But quite a strange consumable, for weapons are rare items of difficult acquisition.

With mages having to find a staff and a socket to have a cursed weapon. And with invokers having to spend hours to Charge each new weapon.

This was not a problem in the past (pre disarming cursed weapons), but now its a very serious disadvantage.

What could be done to correct this:

- Greater availability of weapons.

This would be more rare Pincers/Colds/Canes.

More rare hearts, they already have a strong penalty, they should be avaiable like 100% of the time.

Or a new staff, that is vely low damage but cursed from the start. After all if i can get in 5 min a cursed non rare sword with my DK, why shouldn't my mage get a cursed average 1 staff.

- Make cursed weapons disarm to inventory automaticaly.

This in my opinion should had been there from the start.

Sure you disarm my cursed weapon, but it will go to my inventory.

If you want to prevent me from wield it again, blind me. A thing that all meeles can do.

Another thing: Maces.

Can something be done about maces ?

There are currently 3 decent maces for goods.

- Gear Mace, that you can only get with a large group. Best mace on game IMHO.

- Scepter, that you can only get with a large group.

- A avg 25 maul that is no drop, and that i have not seen in more than 1 month. And i normally locate this one several times a day. Can some IMM see what is wrong with it ?

So can we have a fix for the Maul availability, or a change to the Evil Mace NightFall to be able to be used by any aligment. As evil will mostly be using the somewhat recently introduced Fiber.

PS: In case some of you are wondering, you should never use a 2 handed mace, unless you are a giant, fighting a Invoker/Shaman, or hitting the vulnerability of a certain Cleric race.

[Lexi]

I honestly don't think maces is the weapon type that is lacking. Try noremove flails, polearms, daggers, or swords even, or any other weapon, and you will notice that they exist roughly in the same numbers as maces. Some more, and some less. There is not a lack of noremove weapons. However, high damage, noremove, nodrop, burnproof weapons with special attacks and whatnot - these should not be easy to come by. You can't really have everything in every weapon, Mya, it would just be too much.

EDIT:

My elf cleric would use the solar mace frequently, I even remember using it when fighting Messalantha. It was a solid weapon, better in some ways than the mace from Gear.

EDIT2:

There is a socketable mace that all aligns can use in Kaer Banor.

[Imoutgoodbye]

So, you have five classes that can disarm cursed weapons/shields.

Berserkers and Invokers could always do this as long as the weapon wasn't burnproof.

Dark-Knights have always had a 50/50 disadvantage against melees. Lack of protective shield. It was either outdamage the melee while being bashlocked (if your pet wasn't bashing) or die. You rarely got spells off.

Blademasters and Monks- Only in a certain stance.

And you forgot one. Warriors. But I won't say how, though I'm sure you know. There was enough forum complaining about that at one point.

But, here's another idea. GRAB YOUR WEAPON OFF THE GROUND! It's so annoying to disarm someone who hasn't stacked commands and they get their weapon back before I can sac it.

[f0xx]

Alright then, lets see how things go.

Invokers and Berserkers destroying your weapon can easily be avoided.

The disarm for warriors can be avoided as well.

The real two problems come with Monks and Blademasters who can actually leave you weaponless even if your weapon is burnproof and noremovable.

Blademasters can blind only certain races with criticals and via the "flamestrike" effect. If you get blind by a BLM, you can always flee and run around. If he is disarming you while you are not blind, you can always pick your weapon from the ground. Lag from ironarm is one round, while the lag from disarm is two. It is your own problem if you have commands spammed.

Monks on the other side can blind any class, but as said before, if you are scared about disarming simply flee or use a nodrop weapon instead. Invokers have different ways of dealing with being disarmed.

[edit] Congrats ot spelling invokers correctly

[Old_Bastard]

Joke

It is amusing to fight now with disarming/destroying so much a part of the game. Fighting a certain class a couple days ago, I had 11 weapons destroyed in less than 30 mins. At the end I was wielding avg 17 daggers. Awesome. Joking around with clansman, I find out that this race is also immune to my main two skills. Hah!

As stated many times before, there are a number of mechanics that need to be revisitted to allow things to balance out. Believe it or not, every class (aside from healer) should be able to kill every other class. That is what balance means. IE no perfect class or perfect class combo.

Much of the changes that are impacting today were done back in 1.0. I think people have just gotten better at playing those set class/race combos to the point that very little is explored anymore.

Back in the day, and even before with AR, some of us old folks would roll some rediculously awful race/class combo just to be the underdog. With how things stand today, you are not just the underdog, you cannot win.

As an example, I fought a class last night wielding a weapon that class does not get (2 of them) and only hitting them once every other round. True they were caballed and I was not but, with a 50+ hit roll I should have steam rolled them in 5 rounds. And yes they were wielding a weapon I have mastery of and is high on defense (staff).

Anyways, enough rant off topic.

[Lexi]

Back in 1.0, equipment was horribly overpowered. Therefor, underdog combos could compensate their weaknesses by knowing how to get good/great equipment.

EDIT:

I think there is only one subcabal that actually makes your character more defensive. Maybe two. However, I agree that with 50 hitroll you should hit them more. Might just had been a streak of bad luck with random number generators.

[Psycho Child]

Step 1. Transform.

Step 2. Werepower.

Step 3. ??????????

Step 4. Win.

[mya]

But' date=' here's another idea. GRAB YOUR WEAPON OFF THE GROUND! It's so annoying to disarm someone who hasn't stacked commands and they get their weapon back before I can sac it.[/quote']

That will work 9 out of 10.

Then you will get other people grab your weapon.

Or you casting a 2 rounds lag spells. (Calm,sear,reg Hellstream)

Ever had some guy open with disarm and disarm your cursed weapon to the ground while you are trying to escape ?

[Mudder]

I actually agree with Mya on most points.

[Lexi]

Me too, I just brought up the points I didn't agree with.

[Celerity]

Thirded, especially about noremoves being disarmed to the inventory by monks/blms.

I also believe that no single class/race/religion/cabal combination should have access to both a way to destroy AND disarm weapons.

[Calron]

There never used to be an expectation that everyone should be able to get a nodisarm weapon. In fact, I'm surprised to see Old_Man's response in that regard. To those discussing 1.0 and 2.0, maybe my memory is different than the rest of you, but I don't remember most people having nodisarm weapons.

IMO, nodisarms are not meant to be the norm, so I think it is good that they are not guaranteed to last forever.

[Imoutgoodbye]

There never used to be an expectation that everyone should be able to get a nodisarm weapon. In fact, I'm surprised to see Old_Man's response in that regard. To those discussing 1.0 and 2.0, maybe my memory is different than the rest of you, but I don't remember most people having nodisarm weapons.

IMO, nodisarms are not meant to be the norm, so I think it is good that they are not guaranteed to last forever.

Amen, brother, amen

[Unknown Brother]

invokers

Yay! Spell check FTW.

[mya]

There never used to be an expectation that everyone should be able to get a nodisarm weapon. In fact, I'm surprised to see Old_Man's response in that regard. To those discussing 1.0 and 2.0, maybe my memory is different than the rest of you, but I don't remember most people having nodisarm weapons.

IMO, nodisarms are not meant to be the norm, so I think it is good that they are not guaranteed to last forever.

Perhaps it was so in FL 1.0

It is not in FL 3.0 and was not for the most part of FL 2.0 .

There are several skills/spells/Cabal that will grant you a "Cursed" weapon.

For example the Necromancer class with their Curse weapon spell, clearly a class that is meant to have a Non disarmable weapon at all times.

Invokers are also another class that will have a cursed weapon against any disarmed class.

Warriors have the ability to PowerGrip/Doublesheet to circumven this problem.

Clerics have their Holy hands, a spell that in my opinion should have a revision of their defensive values. As it is now, its mostly used when you have no weapon or when you already can win, and wish to ensure a certain effect (or vs mobs).

Anyone can get a certain cursed non-rare sword from a certain uncommon area. Or if they do not like that one, travel to a even different area and get their backup counterpart.

What i agree with you is that, certain weapons especially for certain classes are not meant to be cursed.

The best case being Polearms that are for the most part disarm able. With the exception of a few very difficult to obtain.

For example, another thing i disagree is that you can find a cursed or nodrop whip anywhere. A weapon class that in my mind being the epitome of offensive should be always disarmable. After all Whip are the hardest weapon to disarm.

On other hand, a Mace that is a defensive weapon. It's very dificult to find a weapon that will stick to you.

[Mudder]

Then while we are re-balancing eq, lets make nodisarm weapons more of a rarity. I will agree with that.

[Lexi]

Invokers do not need no-disarm weapons.

[Pali]

No, but they certainly are helpful.

[Sandbox]

Step 1. Transform.

Step 2. Werepower.

Step 3. ??????????

Step 4. Win.

i second this notion.

[L-A]

Where to begin...

1) I don't think its as dire as the OP makes out. I'd like to see logs from monk and blm point of view on the disarms of norem to see what is happening....because I think this isn't a problem at the current time. In fact I'd like to be shown a norem going to the ground...

2) I don't think there needs to be more weapons. Norem weapons were always avaiable if you knew where to look - the biggest thing was that they are NERFED against their normal counterparts. Take the battlemasters blade for instance - back in the day it had all +hit/dam on it. Been taken back now - and so it should. Give with one had and take with the other. There are some VERY strong norems out there - and they are bloody hard to get your hands on.

The idea of norems being about meant that you COULD get them not that you WERE entitled to them. With sockets a LOT more weapons are able to have this - and yes they should be limited like they are. Its a major thing to be able to resist a warrior's disarm - so it shouldn't be that every man and his black dog just has it out of hand. I certainly know I've had battles I just couldn't win since I didn't have norem handy (all out). You should fear a warrior coming and killing for that weapons since they need it.

Lastly - just because you can't get it to make your uber set of 733t h@x0r gear doesn't make it unfair. This attitude of 'I will only fight you when I have EXACTLY the god suit I want is cr@p. I see a whole lot of players who are NOT good - they just dodge about until they get really strong equipment and roll people based on eq. This isn't everyone - but its certainly a trend I've seen rising. Less skills used and more mindless eq trips. Hence the rise of 'power combos' etc This forms a pretty strong argument for taking out a lot of the super powerful equipment from the game - which unfortuantely will take a lot of the 'coolness' out of the game.

L-A

[L-A]

Or better still:

IFS IS SO UNBALANCED WHY DON'T YOU ROLL IT UP AND SHOW US ALL!!!

L-A

[Aulian]

I could teach you to solo your way to the sceptre.. And then killing the end mob is easy.

[Sandbox]

This forms a pretty strong argument for taking out a lot of the super powerful equipment from the game

i agree

which unfortuantely will take a lot of the 'coolness' out of the game.

i disagree, having gear is not cool its a necessity. enjoying rp and a fair fight where both of you are worried who is going to make it out, now that is fun.

[L-A]

i disagree, having gear is not cool its a necessity. enjoying rp and a fair fight where both of you are worried who is going to make it out, now that is fun.

Name five pieces of such 'super powerful equipment I speak of...

L-A

[Aulian]

spell absorp

unholy shadow

glyph

band of order

dragon scale ring

stetson

abyss

ultimate evil

warpaint

chaste maiden hair

worn sleeves

worn belt

arctron

vorpal sword

rokujan