The staff is looking for potential ideas for balancing halflings. With the magic resistance, 25 dexterity and decent constitution the small size they receive to offset these bonuses aren't really significant enough. The small size is also easily overcome. The mundane damage vulnerability that was removed was just too much and made them near unplayable. Let us know here if you have any ideas.
Lose their +sword and +dagger bonus?
I don't think halflings are the issue. I think it's the other variables. Eg. Gladiator thief abilities, being able to get physical resist via elemental call etc.
Halflings largely have remained unchanged for most of the game's life. When did they become OP? If we observe the events around this, we are likely to find the answer. Maybe they should lose the dagger/sword bonus. Danpher seems to be the only real contentious situation in the last couple of years, and I think that's mostly caused by the strength discrepancy of WM/Savant.
Halflings were changed significantly. Given a vulnerability to mundane damage because they were too much before. To offset this the player base chose to add sword + dagger bonus. Then later the vulnerability was removed as it was too much. Sword + Dagger isn't really he issue here. Dwarf/duergar has magical resistance and has a water vuln and are small size. Halfling has magic resistence and has no vuln, but has small size and low strength. These don't really offset that resistance.
To be clear: This isn't coming solely because of one sample such as Danpher.
Perhaps a partial vuln to smashing type weapons? Didn't they have a vuln to maces a long, long time ago?
A vuln to a certain weapon type sounds fun, unique and not too over the top.
Staff maybe?
Could always give them the old gnome bashing vuln I guess too.
Halflings aren't OP.. They aren't even all that scary. Its the thief gladiator combo that is the issue.
Wuggo is strong, but no stronger than any other Watcher ranger or ANY ranger combo for that matter.
Halfling bard is strong, but not because of halfling, but because bards have been and still are broken.
10 minutes ago, Fireman said:
Halflings aren't OP.. They aren't even all that scary. Its the thief gladiator combo that is the issue.
Wuggo is strong, but no stronger than any other Watcher ranger or ANY ranger combo for that matter.
Halfling bard is strong, but not because of halfling, but because bards have been and still are broken.
Didn't you dump on people with an -Avian- Bard Watcher like not long ago? Avian nerf plz
Maybe test removing the sword/dagger bonus and giving them a staff bonus? Or giving them a smaller weakness to all bashing attacks, including class of damage? Though I also agree with @Fireman the bigger issues are a certain synergy and bards.
Sword/dagger bonus should stay for halfling warriors. Giving this little bonuses to very specific race/class combinations will allow for more unique and diverse playerbase. Every warrior is either giant or ogre.(except stone) Its boring.
Halfling ranger/thieves don't need it and bards won't use it.
There used to be a reason to play dwarf/duergar zerk for skullbreaker(?), the better haymaker/headbutt, and IIRC this is no longer a thing and is just universal for all anger zerks.
So, suggestion 1 from trick: get skullbreaker back for dwarf / duergar sersk - think this is a fun idea
Let's talk about halflings though ;)
How is the small size easily overcome? Venom sacks and Boots of Stomping. In that case, the giant, minotaur, demon, ogre that is bashing/bodyslamming them can just eat a venom sack as well and all is back to normal, right?
If the magic resistance is the issue, we can experiment with losing that magic resistance, but not apply any actual vuln to them. No buff/no vuln. OR, take away magic resistance as a whole away and give them specific resistances to say.. fire/ice. But lose that resistance to all other magic forms.
Let's do small, incremental balancing to see how that affects it and if that is not enough, then we can add a slight vuln to certain things or give a slight resistance to certain things.
Let's just kill two birds with one stone and make halfling battlemages
Just now, egreir said:
Let's just kill two birds with one stone and make halfling battlemages
Only if they can ride their own danced weapons.
Zrothum hops on his magical scythes and round n' round he goes!
I think if they lose the magic resist, that will be too much and make them too weak. Same as giving them their weapon vuln in the past. We need somthing smaller.
1 minute ago, Anume said:
I think if they lose the magic resist, that will be too much and make them too weak. Same as giving them their weapon vuln in the past. We need somthing smaller.
Can it be done by type instead of a blanket magic resist? I mean instead of making the magic resistant to all forms of magic, can they be made magic resistant to ice, fire, lightning(or whatever), but have standard, human defenses against the rest of magic types?
What exactly the problem with Halflings @Rygothran ?
It can't be the Dex or AC. The only thing that comes to mind is the magic resist.
Well, perhaps we could remove Magic resist, and add Mental Resist, Disease Resist and Afflictive Resist?
That would remove damage, but keep saves.
How about just removing the magic resist as a first port of call. As has been mentioned already its not that halflings are strong, otherwise every class would do well. Certain combos get insane value from magic resist - and so halfling is the best choice for those. Without the magic resist halflings would still have the highest dex in the game, alongside reasonable hp and the sword / dagger bonus.