Some thoughts.....

[Iyorvin]

I have returned after a year, and have played steadily enough to reach pinnacle. I have had interactions with most pinnacles, either through fighting or role play, and have been active on the forum as well.

What I have noticed, in my year absence is not healthy.

I have spent more time defending each and everyone of my actions, rather than simply playing the game. I have characters spending more time going into the philosophy of what is and is not a gang, than actually pk'ing OR rp'ing. I have spent more visits with Anume than days at pinnacle.

Dale actually sends me tells on a regular basis that go like this, word for word, I'm quoting:

Dale tells you, "go gang someone"

Dale tells you, "you liar, you ganger"

Did I happen into a swarm of bad apples? Or is this the degeneration of the MUD, as a whole?

I see Klemkin quit, simply because of morons on an EXTERNAL TOOL - The forum. This forum is here to create a community, not divide it. If we can't use it responsibly, it really shouldn't be here.

What it REALLY looks like, is EVERYONE is crying wolf anytime anything REMOTELY poor happens to them, or blaming everyone else for any mistake THEY committed. I have seen nothing but double standards and hypocrisy flaming out of the mouths of most players I have interacted with.

Let me tell you all something, back in my day, a gang was cut and dry. When 3-4 guys grouped up walked in and attacked, THAT was a gang. When 10 nexus members GROUPED up to kill Tot's slith warrior knight, THAT was a gang. Now, you have to check where each and every time to make sure no one attacked your foe, or ask each and every person who is in the same area to make sure no one else is fighting first. Now, if you run into another area in an attempt to flee from one guy and happen to run into ANOTHER guy, it's classified as a gang. And now, there is no control. It used to be that if you WERE ganged, you sucked it up and kept yourself IC.

To be honest, if this is the crap left for the playerbase of FL to play with, I'm not going to be staying very long. I have blatent OOC bull**** coming from random lowbies - garbage about how I am not properly playing my alignment - well news flash, it's not up to you to judge.

I realize the irony of me coming here whining about whiners, but really gets me is the fact I can't win at this 'game for everyone'.

Since I returned, I decided to talk to people on AIM, and EVERYONE of them have nothing good to say about ANY CHARACTER. So I have to assume this all stems from the use of AIM, and how joe told bob who told dick who told sue who left her computer on and tim saw that my character is a trashy ganger and we all need to kill.

I'll give it one more shot, but I just wanted to highlight my first week or two of interactions I have received.

[Pali]

Just started up again as well, and while I haven't reached pinn yet... I just have to say that my experiences do not match yours. I have mostly positive interactions with nearly everyone. Sure, there are the random bad apples here and there... but overall the people I've killed haven't complained, the people I've talked to have been happy to talk back, and for the most part things seem to be taken in good fun.

It's certainly possible that by the time I pinn I won't still be thinking this way, but for the most part I'm glad I started playing again and I've been having a great time.

[Dale]

Well then don't talk to me in game.

You ganged me, with two caballed chars at my altar defending it.

Stop being a bitch.

Just be glad that in all my rage I closed my client before logging it. You got away yeptie doo!

But yeah, don't expect any rp from me just as I got NONE from you. If you send me a tell I will reply just as I did with what I did before. You are a liar, you ganged me and you know it, I even frikken seen you talking about it with that tribbie warrior when I mind linked my leopard.

But hey, I came to terms with it, good job calling my out by the way, proves to me even what more of a dick you are.

Also btw you may be pissed or whatever but I'll let you know that since that night I nearly lost all appreciation for the game and interest in that char, so thanks, glad you got into Tribunal after you ganged me with two of them. Way to go.

[Jedi_Donkey]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time man. I remember fighting you WAY back in the day.

I came back like a month and a half ago. Yeah there have been some bad eggs. There have definitely been some upgrades in terms of RP, I must say. Many of the same vets are around, some nice and some very unwelcoming as usual. I definitely know what you mean about people saying stuff about "ganging".

Many people have to understand what ganging is, so they can stop complaining about it. Maybe one of our fantastic imm-staff could explain it again so some people stop making others leave?

Please don't lose hope Iyorvin, you're cool and I want you to stick around, even if some people don't.

CARUMBA!

[Pali]

This entire thing should have been on Prayer. This thread needs to be locked.

And you both need to cool down.

[Mudder]

I agree with Pali.

Also, ganging is not illegal or against the rules(Unless you are a qrace/class). It's just trashy.

[tassinvegeta]

What I have noticed, in my year absence is not healthy.

I have spent more time defending each and everyone of my actions, rather than simply playing the game. I have characters spending more time going into the philosophy of what is and is not a gang, than actually pk'ing OR rp'ing. I have spent more visits with Anume than days at pinnacle.

Though there seems to be alot of perception issues on the situation that should've been handled in the prayer forum. For intance I could've sworn I heard mention that a gang happened at an altar which if anyone knows cabal warfare isn't a gang at all. It sucks to be on the receiving end and yes probably something should be done about it but its the rules (not agreeing with it mind you as I complained recently about that tactic not a gang).

On another note I noticed as well having to spend too much time at Anumes place because of whiners and complainers. I remember being summoned up by her on several of my chars sequentially before hitting 50 because of an attack that was thwarted by me ending in his death once or twice. At those lvls I barely pk at all its always the other lvl 30 wannabes that go after me. Now I dare not even touch anyone until lvl 50 because of it. I never received any punishment because I never did anything wrong. But when the game becomes more focused on sending notes of complaints about other chars rather than just playing the game then something is wrong.

[Twinblades713]

Actually I'm not sure locking is a cure all. I think maybe a bit of anger and finger point could be (hopefully) self edited out. I think it's good we bring light to what's wrong with our playerbase and brainstorm ways to stop it. My latest SEVERAL characters have been all about RP. They didn't just have an angle, they were the RP. I am not dragging everyone down when I single out a few people I think have been exceptional in this manner of the top of my head.

Wikley

Palwen

Phaige

Uzegral

Koerik

Laviek

Valadar

Orsakin

Jevhril

Maerothir

Precila

Imseik

Scholin

Zaulael

You may not agree, but if you do, think about how these characters act. If you spend more time being your character, you have less time to be an angry player.

[tassinvegeta]

Actually I'm not sure locking is a cure all. I think maybe a bit of anger and finger point could be (hopefully) self edited out. I think it's good we bring light to what's wrong with our playerbase and brainstorm ways to stop it.

Exactly my thoughts. Locking and pretending these threads never happen don't fix the problem it just covers it up until it returns over and over again. Solutions are given to us through these threads (though thinly veiled) and we should welcome them on a case by case basis that is.

[Lytholm]

This entire thing should have been on Prayer. This thread needs to be locked.

And you both need to cool down.

Never a true word was spoke.

If you want to start another thread where you discuss matters and not call other players out you may do so.

You may not come here call out other players. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Don't do it. This thread was probably OK until specific names got mentioned...

Lytholm the Dark General, Eternal Vindicator of Combat

[Zhokril]

Honestly guys, this could have been a perfectly constructive thread and lost none of its relevance if we hadn't ventured into flaming specific players. And after Malch JUST posted about this - I don't know what has gotten into you all. I am going to leave this as an example unless one of the other staffmembers wants to remove it. Forum vacations as Malchaeius promised. Let's try to be a little sensible next time.

I swear to God if someone posts another one of these "Put down another player" or "Gather the torches and pitch-forks so we can lynch this guy" threads, they will be taking a good long forum vacation. THE GENERAL FORUMS ARE NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS KIND OF GARBAGE. We have lost GOOD players before over this nonsense - and my patience for this is ZERO. If you feel something is shady, post on the prayer forum. We will investigate, and we will let you know if they have done wrong and if they have been punished.

THIS IS THE LAST WARNING!

Addendum:

Also, I am getting tired of seeing veiled criticism of Anume/staffmembers. If you are getting spoken to about your behavior by a staffmember, if you are assuming its because you are surrounded by a bunch of whiners, then your mindset is the problem. It means you did something you shouldn't have. You may not agree with it, but guess what, you probably haven't heard from all of the people involved.

If a staffmember is simply asking you questions to find out what happened, that doesn't mean you are being reprimanded. If you are being reprimanded, it is for a reason, best to learn from whatever you did wrong. We rarely, if ever, punish anyone without questioning everyone involved first even in instances where it is seemingly clear cut. If you have an issue with your judgment, take it to the Prayer Forum. The only reason to publish something like that on General is when the person has no legitimate evidence to back up their words and merely wants to garner public sympathy.

[Anume]

My comment:

If you are in a cabal I am currently Imming, you will adhere to the rules I set. If you do not like it, leave. Each Imm choses how she/he will run their cabal. Some very few allow ganging in general, some (like me) allow it only at altars, some (like Raargant) do not allow it even there.

In this special case the player did not even gang, but tag, voluntarily or involuntarily does not really concern anyone here. Do not take your cabal Imm talking to you as a general attack on you personally.

In general, like Zhokril said, an Imm talking to you does not necessarily mean you have done anything wrong. It means we are having a look at a situation someone complained over. If we would just ignore complaints I am sure you would not be too happy either. So whatever we do, we are the "bad guys" from the start

Lately we see a LOT of posts here on the open forum that really have no place here. You guys are running in the right direction if you want to get rid of the forum once more.