Proposal: Lower the total lives

[Mudder]

As it stands. Every character has 60 lives. Hardly anyone stays with a character long enough to condeath and character lives seem almost as a worthless commodity with less priority over equipment.

Is this a problem we have to keep? No I say! Nay! We can fix this.

Let's take down the total lives from 60 and put it at 15 or 20. A huge difference? Yes. Life should seem special and rare, not seen as a consumable.

But then everyone would condeath in a week? Not necessarily. Conquests still exist and people would just be applying for them more often. If you <3 your character enough you will not throw away your lives blindly and you will put fourth the effort to get that conquest.

But newbies will be screwed! No. Moderate characters should have 40 or 50 lives.

Overall this will be a huge adjustment to our in game culture. Characters would not nor should they be routinely committing suicide. Cabal warfare would also change. Yet I feel this would only be better for the MUD as a whole.

[songofsixpence]

Maybe leave moderate at 61 for the "full" experience? And drop ruthless to 30 or so to encourage faster turnover and promote a more sacred experience? 15-20 would still suck for those newer (or just plain uneducated players...*points to self*) that are trying out qraces/qclasses for the first time.

[Guest emp_newb]

yea, and every time someone gets 15 pks, we can have a pwipe. It is flawless, you can never have someone who is unkillable. God how did we not think of this before.

PS-There is a lack of smilies in this post because this post needs 0 smilies.

[MadCowDisease]

PS-There is a lack of smilies in this post because this post needs 0 smilies.

your avatar overrules the need for smilies.

[Pali]

Speaking as someone who has never condeathed a character, and hasn't had a character with more than a dozen-ish deaths in 7 years... I still have to ask: why?

I don't think there currently exists a problem with people not valuing their lives... repeat suicide attacks happen sometimes, but I can count on one hand how many times I can remember them happening to me in my entire time playing here. Most people I know hate taking a death, and certainly do all they can to avoid it, whether or not they'll be losing their eq with it.

What you're proposing would have a very negative side-effect: people, especially newer players who want to try to tough it out and go all the way, will become afraid of PK. They won't want to fight because dying will matter TOO much. This is still a game. Killing and dying is a huge part of it, and we shouldn't be trying to lessen them happening. Trying to include more RP into killing and dying is a great goal, but make death too much of a punishment and fighting starts being too much of a risk.

[MadCowDisease]

as a newer player, 15 or 20 deaths being the limit would suck. especially for those brand new to MUDs in general. walk into the wrong room, not knowing whats in store, BAM, death. us newbies would be condeathing like flies to the level 30 app hopefuls.

[Mudder]

as a newer player' date=' 15 or 20 deaths being the limit would suck. especially for those brand new to MUDs in general. walk into the wrong room, not knowing whats in store, BAM, death. us newbies would be condeathing like flies to the level 30 app hopefuls.[/quote']Why aren't you rolling a moderate character then? They have more lives in this proposal.

Obviously my original statement of 15-20 was extreme. I did that on purpose. Haha, more realistically 30.

RE: Emp. When people are "unkillable" they don't take 15 deaths. Was that your point? In fact... Did you even have one? :confused:

While you may not have an issue with valuing eq over your life, Pali, the vast majority of players in this game do.

[MadCowDisease]

i can only speak from a personal standpoint on this. but i dont learn when i get huge handicaps. thats why i refuse to play the suggested classes to learn with (cleric, healer, etc). same thing goes for moderate/ruthless. ive made one moderate. i dont think handicaps help. i think they hurt you more. you come to expect them and rely on them, and when they arent there, you freeze up.

i personally dont see many people that are happy to take a death. people put a lot of emphasis on avoiding deaths, from what ive seen. not always for eq sake either.

[Twinblades713]

If we slip Kurvikhel into this category of unkillable, how many deaths did he say he had? 12? In 500 hours? I don't think vets are gonna get to shafted here.

[-Totenkopf-]

All this will do is promote more of the same ole log off antics. People already do it enough because they don't want to loose their gear. Now if they are limited lives, and also risk gear loss, it'll be worse. I know I do it. If there is an opponent I know will kill me with me putting up little to no fight, my character will generally avoid them (obviously certain characters are hard to avoid, so result in a log off). This doesn't happen too often, although I know I didn't like fighting Kurvikhel on anything without prot shield. A prot shield character, sure, I chased him around quite often. I never went and spoke **** to Kurvikhel on any character I logged off on him with though. If your character is scared, my personal opinion is that it is trashy and OOC to go **** talking and then logging off without backing up your words. What a character says should be supported by their actions.

I do believe people value their eq more then life. I even put you in such a category Mudder. I've quite often seen you around wielding life insurance. This should be the first thing to get the arse. All is does is fundamental builds a theory of a lossless death, because, as you mention people don't fear the death itself, more so the loss of gear. I don't however think lowering the life limit will change this at all. As much as you may think, without just sitting around, hiding in the furthest region of aabahran. I think you'll see even more delete posts. People getting frustrated and pissed off because they just took a gang bang, that consumes a good percentage of their lives.

I dunno, I think if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[-Totenkopf-]

Kurvikhel has amazing skills, played a prot shield class that wasn't particularly EQ dependant. On the rare occassion he was without zombies, you didn't see him hanging around too long. And if he did, he would be hanging in deso behind a locked door that the key doesn't repop for.

Certain combos will loose 15 lives VERY VERY quickly.

[Pali]

The eq reworking in progress will hopefully go a long way towards helping people value their gear a bit less. Combined with a removal of life insurance and cabals being given a moderate-strength "outfit" command to let people instantly get back into the fray during a massive fight, and I think we've got a far better solution than lowering the number of lives people have.

As Tot said, all it will do is encourage people to try not to die even more - which will discourage interaction and PK, because there is risk involved in those things.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I lost twenty lives in ONE night as a level 40 member of Justice.

You can't lower the number of lives. That's insane. We all aren't good enough. I've gone halfway to condeath before in a week.

Lowering the number of lives is a slap in the face to anyone who wants to play this game seriously. I'd like to have a character last a year or more.

Something about this just doesn't seem right. Soooo wrong....

[Mudder]

I do believe people value their eq more then life. I even put you in such a category Mudder. I've quite often seen you around wielding life insurance. This should be the first thing to get the arse. All is does is fundamental builds a theory of a lossless death, because, as you mention people don't fear the death itself, more so the loss of gear. I don't however think lowering the life limit will change this at all. As much as you may think, without just sitting around, hiding in the furthest region of aabahran. I think you'll see even more delete posts. People getting frustrated and pissed off because they just took a gang bang, that consumes a good percentage of their lives.

I dunno, I think if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I'm the biggest supporter of Life Insurance here. Of course I'm always using it. Especially when I am constantly fighting against multiple foes (which I am.)

[Pali]

Why aren't you rolling a moderate character then? They have more lives in this proposal.

As a side note to this discussion: remember that not all new players will WANT to play a moderate. Remember that a lot that will want to play a moderate will eventually want to play a ruthless, and probably will join that tier before their skills have improved enough that they die as rarely as vets. They'll also only learn to re-equip completely after dying as a ruthless, a learning period that will likely earn them many more deaths.

Cutting the number of deaths discourages moderates from joining the ruthless tier, which discourages them from trying to do as much as they can do in the game.

I do not see a single good reason to cut the number of lives. It won't lessen how important people see their eq as - it'll make them see it as even MORE important, because they won't have spare lives to lose during a re-equip period against powerful enemies. You die now and lose all your eq, at least you know you've got time to build it back up, even if you take a few deaths along the way trying. Reduce the number of lives people have, and they'll do even more to try to keep their good EQ.

Above all, this is a game. Even losing in it has to remain an acceptable pill to swallow for it to be fun. Dying SHOULD matter, I fully agree, but there are limits to how much it CAN matter without taking away from the fun of the game.

[-Totenkopf-]

I dont use it, and it doesn't really bother me, until I get killed, looted, then I manage to (at the disadvantage) kill them back, and find nothing in their corpse.

So what you've just admitted to, is being one of the people you are talking about?

*GRUMBLES*

[Imoutgoodbye]

Can't we all just go on my gut instincts and do away with all the long discussions? Save us a lot of forum space.....

And check out my sweet avatar...how can I be wrong?

[Mudder]

I dont use it, and it doesn't really bother me, until I get killed, looted, then I manage to (at the disadvantage) kill them back, and find nothing in their corpse.

So what you've just admitted to, is being one of the people you are talking about?

*GRUMBLES*

Yes. I think every vet here values eq over character lives. Which is what prompted this. I also think it would be cool. Haha.

At the same time, I would be happy not to use LI if people didn't full loot/sac me every time I died. I don't mind people taking what they need. It is people just trying to gimp you so they can get a cheap kill off you when you go to retrieve your standard that make me use LI.

Also, when I capture people. I hardly ever get anything and when I do, it's the 2 pieces I never wanted. So I think it is very fair.

[Deykari]

I'm all for doing away with LI, but whilst it's there I'll use it if needs must because I'm putting myself at a disadvantage compared to others. With my current, about 95% of my deaths have been full or almost full loots - now whilst I have no problem with full loots, if I have the choice of dying and having no eq, or dying and retaining my full set... which do you think I'm going to choose? It's why I'm only using life-insurance when I feel I'm going to be stripped, I don't bother against most.

If you're choosing not to use LI then fair enough, but don't get annoyed just because others are using it when it's there for you to use.

I agree with Pali - remove LI but bring in a basic cabal suit that at least makes you able to get back on your feet and compete.

Dey

[Twinblades713]

I'm of a similar mindset. I won't be upset when it's gone, but until it is... hell yes I'm using it at every opportunity granted it' a wise use of my cps.

[Mudder]

Well I will be sad if LI goes away! It is my friend. Haha.

EDIT: Then again, if eq wasn't so insanely important I probably wouldn't have such a problem with getting full looted every time I die.

[-Totenkopf-]

Guess I just feel cheated, especially if it was a hard/close fight, or they just killed and looted me, and I don't get to retrieve any gear. I don't do gear and winter trips, etc etc. All my EQ tends to come off corpses.

Tribs only get 2 items when they capture someone? I sort of recall losing alot more then that.

And mudder, your a freakin thief. A thief with no EQ is the most dangerous thief

I used to remember sitting there are Loucheran, blackjacked, and watching half my suite disappear. Damn didn't I hate thieves. With my latest characters, I don't multikill. Well, not unless they come and attack me.

I think EQ changes are going to have to be VERY VERY well thought out. Not all classes have the same EQ reliance. Making EQ less powerful overall will harm EVERYONE except spell casters. It will also make DK's with good malforms even more powerful. They add an insane amount of hit/dam and have huge average damage.

[f0xx]

When I played my last thief, I had a feeling there was a cap on the items that can be pried. Every time I pried 3rd item the victim would wake up. Even with mastered pry and correct wight, so I dunno what you are talking about when saying "half my EQ would disappear".

[Twinblades713]

When I played my last thief' date=' I had a feeling there was a cap on the items that can be pried. Every time I pried 3rd item the victim would wake up. Even with mastered pry and correct wight, so I dunno what you are talking about when saying "half my EQ would disappear".[/quote']

Cause there are certain thiefish things that you don't know about that you could have done.

[H&R]

I don't like this idea. It would make everyone more of a chicken, even me. And I love to play on the edge as well as making dangerous EQ trips just to see if I can make it. I don't wanna condie in a couple of weeks.

As for life-insurance, I'm all for removing it/increase the cost/put restrictions on it. For example, I've killed this guy 3 times, wanting two of his things so badly. But, nope. Life-insurance. Grr