Locked Roleplay Incentive...

Yeah. When you RP with Mathicus it's like being RP-bashlocked without sanctuary.

... Since when did bards get bash... Overpowered! Bard are overpowered, bashlocking people left and right, without lag too! They can do it with says, and that doesn't lag you much at all! Bards are overpowered, bards need to be toned! I just got killed by a bard because he was talking to me, I couldn't do anything, he just talked, and talked and talked, and swinging at me all the while, so I died!

Some one had to say it.

I have to agree with WC though. Although I know where you're coming from with coming up with ways to help in the RP environment, the system isn't a measurement of roleplay, it's a measurement of how many characters you've typed.

Another point, is that in my opinion, RP should come naturally. Ever applied for a qrace or something similar? When you've sent that app in, you (at least I do anyway) get that feeling, where you feel FORCED into interacting with people every single moment you're logged incase the Imms only ever spot you when you appear to be doing nothing. It's not natural, it's stiff, and it's forced (unless you have a character that can get away with it). Now you might say that any RP, bad or good, is good RP, but I would have to disagree. If it's not coming naturally, and you're roleplaying in hopes of being spotted by an Imm or something similar, it is for me, the least satisfying thing in the MUD. A similar thing could happen with an incentive scheme for roleplay. Although roleplaying is enforced here anyway, putting actual guidelines and a system in place for rewarding roleplay will undoubtedly, along with the goods points, bring bad points, in that people will be spouting nonsense to get their bonuses. If the bonuses affected PK in anyway, it would lead to more abuse because those bonuses would then become the "norm" and so to keep up with the masses, people are going to have to RP; or in a pinch, spurt some crap.

I hate writing long-ish posts. I feel like I've gone off on a tangent and completely forgotten what I've started writing about in the first place.

Dey

The RP enviornment is fine. People have compared it to 1.0 RP saying it's much worse now. As Raargrant has said before, that's crap. 1.0 RP was NOTHING like it is today. It was terrible. The first ooc connection I ever had was from in game(sorry festy). He asked me for my AIM. And I gave it to him. (It's to late to get banned for something that happened in 1.0 right?)

RP is fine in 3.0, the only thing that is going to make it great is all of you.

There are benefits to RP, like making friends, having fun, getting a title, getting into a cabal, getting a qrace, not getting outcasted, not getting slain, not getting banned, etc.

If there is a problem, and I don't think there is, it is that too many people think RP consists of talking. A character's whole existence is role-play and should be thought of creatively.

Terrible. The reward for RP is up for grabs, and we already know what it is: fun.

if you put yourself into character you become the character, if you put yourself into the mind of a character you think like the character. So become the character.

I like the idea.

I mean, you get bonuses for pk and combat, and seeing as how rp should be an equally important part of the game, it makes sense that you'd get something for it.

I think there are some flaws in the design, but I think the idea deserves enough merit to be considered. I realize the problem of a bunch of crap rp may come up, but...here's my experience. Get people to start rping..and they'll get better.

Heh, I'd almost like to see RP points be required for each rank.

First off, you're saying there are no rewards for rp? My pk equaled **** (maybe 5 kills and a death or two), and I got a title, an owner only weapon, an align change which kept spells, and inducted into a cabal that did not allow my class. I was rewarded very well for my rp.

But as far as this idea goes, I think you would be dead set against this...

You already bitch about bad rp, do you really think this would improve it? When people start rping for the sake of rping they get better, give people a minimum level to go for and they'll hit the lower echelons every time. Isn't that what you continually argue about? That people only take the status quo for rp and focus on pk to get the rewards? And you honestly think that measuring how many says and emotes they do is going to change anything?

The reason you can measure pk is because it has an outcome. Someone lives, someone dies, or there is a stalmate and there is no change.

RP is qualitative. There is no victor in rp, there is just rp. And there is more to rp than says and emotes, it's sticking to character, tell me how code is going to determine if someone sticks to character? You can't say 'He uses more emotes so his rp is better' because if his emotes are not consistant to his characters story then they are not 'good rp' they are just flagrant wastes of keystrokes, and shouldn't give anyone any props for his ability to rp. RP is consistancy. It's not ten years of back story, thats fluff. It's not saying twenty words every five minutes, thats conversations. It's not spamming an emote for every impulse you can think of, those are actions. History, Conversations, Actions and all those other things people like to grill each other on are tools for RP. And you can use all the tools at your disposal to create damn fine RP, but you don't have to, you can use one or two and still do a decent job.

Talking twice as much as someone is only better rp than the second guy if your rp is supposed to be someone who talks that much and the second guy's rp is that that he is supposed to talk more than you're character is supposed to talk.

WC

I usually keep my mouth shut during this kind of thing. But as someone who's been here for a long time (six or seven years), who has built an area for the MUD, donated money, etc...

I find it somewhat insulting that people (such as yourself, Warpnow, and a multitude of others), do not feel there is enough RP in FL. There are a lot of people who, myself included, spend hours on end trying to RP with people, only to have the door slammed in our face. Let me give you an example.

I have played upwards of... 20ish humans, at thirty, for qraces. About half of them have been PK oriented, and about half of them have been RP oriented. Two of them have actually received their qrace. Kevoniki, a vampire, and Manipulant/Khiandra, a demon cleric. On Kevoniki... I had about 50 hours (twenty ranking/training). The other 30 were spent RPing and PKing. And let me tell you, I only had about 12 PKs. Then with Manipulant, I had about 60 hours (ten ranking/training). I had four PKs, I believe. That's about 45 unadulterated hours of RP.

That's just one, albeit rather extreme, example of the amount of effort people expend on RP.

But I'd like to point out that I think your intentions are good, in suggesting this. I'll always maintain (even if I'm fooling myself), that the vast majority of people in this MUD have always done THEIR best to RP. Anyone who argues with that, can stick it where the sun don't shine. I will also disagree that ANY sort of standard should be set. The bar for RP needs to be set wherever the lowliest, newbiest newb feels comfortable. As far as I'm concerned, if they're trying, they deserve to be rewarded. And I think that those rewards, while varying in their availability from immortal to immortal, have always been given to those who deserve them.

So, in short (or in long), I don't think we need a hardcoded system to encourage people to RP. I think we just need to seperate the few who chronically fail to ATTEMPT to RP, from the many who ALWAYS try their best. Then we need to beat the former with a stick.

You say the lowliest of newbs needs to be rewarded...

and then you say they need to be rewarded for trying...

That's exactly what this system would do: reward people for trying.

There are those who do RP very, very well. But there are also a lot of people who don't try, and this idea would make people inspired to try.

Every time I hear something like that, all I can imagine is Chayesh growing red in the face - right after getting spat on.

Because that's what saying **** like that is doing. It's spitting in the IMMs faces, saying they don't enforce RP well enough, or they don't RP enough themselves.

It's complete and total bull.

I think Raargant said it best...

Fiction: RP was 'much better in the old days'.

Fact: Sorry, many people weren't even IC all the time in the old days. I was there during the old days, and I don't have as selective memory. I remember such current notables as Saisha, Elise, and others going OOC all the damn time. The only reason RP seems 'better' back then was because, back then, most of you were probably going 'lol' and 'wtf'...yes, as I admit, as I had as well.

I would say "If you don't feel the RP is good, or present at all, then leave."

But you don't play anymore, so I guess we've settled that. After all, I'm sure there's a million other places out there with better RP than us.

Cuandres arives, scriva.

Please explain how this system encourages rp.

WC

I'll post once in this post, then stop (since I know people will argue.)

All of my characters have been both RP or PK oriented, (except for a few, who were only there for the RP, but still did PK some) and have been rewarded foremost for RP. I believe the only character I really didn't HAVE to RP with to get my goal was a fire giant berserker going for Syndicate. Even then, he RP'd, and everyone was willing to RP with me.

I don't know how ANYONE can say people aren't rewarded for RP, or that RP doesn't exist simply because people prefer PK. Hell, just to be an ***, I'd go make a ninja who didn't RP the slightest bit and assassinate everyone, to prove what it's ACTUALLY LIKE to experience no RP. But I won't, since I try not to be an *** in game, and stick to my character's RP.

We don't need this system. The Immortals reward as they do, and they rewards are well earned. But who says we need a system to reward every little action of RP that we do? You think it's something we should EXPECT? Do you think just because we get an Immortal's attention and RP with him/her, we should get an owner only item, dragon, or custom title?

RP is, as WC said, constant, and should happen everytime you log on. In fact, it's rather hard to log on and not RP right away, since you're playing a character you created in your mind, and are playing him as you see that character act. I don't expect a damn thing when I RP, my own satisfaction comes when I RP to my standards and actually become the character I created. I don't need Immortal interaction (Though it's really nice ) and I sure as hell don't need their approval. They're just there to make the ride more fun.

Exactly, RP should be ever present, even in small ways. Thats why you are playing an RP ENFORCED MUD sometiems there is a silent pk, and I wont lie, it pisses me off when I get pk'd and i dont know the reason why, but theres still probably an RP reason for it hmmmm.

I have to say though that since 1.0 Rp has come a long long way. I remember with my first 50 getting into knight, it was so OOC it wasnt funny. The way I asked, the way the app was written, the way it was accepted. We have taken giant leaps as a community to increasing the level of RP in our playing style, which is something to be acknowledged in itself.

However some sort of reward for jsut general RP is not exactly a good idea. I ahve a few characters that are rangers. They move aroun and oftern for my own crazy entertainment have long drawn out and very very many emoted conversations with my beasts. I imagine there would be some increased action right there if someone would be being rewarded for it.

lastly there are rewards for great RP. You make the effort you will be rewarded. The gods will come and talk to you, everyone will be willing to RP with you becuase they know you can. And also thats who people get custom titles, and the likes, special zombies, owner only items, cabal elder/leadership positions. If you RP you will go far, If you pk you will go far. If you blend them both you will reach the highest levels.

The main reason why this idea, however well intentioned, sucks:

You cannot code RP. RP, by nature, is the antithesis of coding. Coding is structural engineering. RP is architectural design.

You cannot ask code to do anything with RP. As WC said, RP is not able to be quantified by a mathematical calculation and thus, cannot be coded. To illustrate again why this cannot be, ask yourself this...do the NPC's RP or are they simply preprogrammed to do and say certain things?

Trying to merge coding and RP will result in nothing more than a world full of NPC's regurgitating mprog responses because the system tells them to.

Sorry to bash the original poster, but this idea is like a box of Crayola's filled with nothing but gray crayons.

Chayesh for President?

If I had a kid in school and his classmate had a box of all gray crayons, I'd tell my kid that to if he needs to borrow a gray one, he knows who to ask.

Firstly, let me again extend thanks for the feedback. I think just this thread alone has given me personally an excellent insight into the overall atmosphere, and despite the seemingly irritated feel of most of the posts, I think the idea did serve to start up some interesting conversation. I appreciate the objective analysis and thanks to Fiere for the compliments and the welcome.

I have to admit that I should have known how strong the reaction to anything RP-oriented would be, and I may have put my foot all up in it. I hope I don't come off as too pushy with all the "clarification" points, because to see this system imp'd is so NOT my life's goal, more like a passing consideration mixed with some fond nostalgia for an old MUD.

That said, I will assert that the system can be coded. Also, the way it was coded had no effect on NPCs, but only between connected player to connected player.

I will not say that this idea would better for rp on the MUD. I will not say that people wouldn't try to abuse it, I certainly can't predict how players will use a tool available to them. I will say that if players in game see someone attempt to abuse it, all they need do is take their leave, because the credit is only given if there are two or more players in the same room. If that doesn't work, there's always prayer as with any other abuse.

I admit that I am one of those eternal optimist types. I honestly think that rp MUST be strong in order for this whole bonus thing to work, and I think players wouldn't participate in rp with someone known to abuse it in the past. The integrity of this player base with regard to roleplay is obviously not in question. That alone would ostensibly keep things on the level.

So, I don't want to see this dragged on and on... I'll finish with that. Also, I want to say that I really like it here. I hope this whole idea doesn't put me on the black list too long.

I think what Chayesh meant was simply that the system can only create lots and lots of says/emotes, but not necessarily raise up the overall quality of RP in the MUD; ie, RP=/says and tells. Not that the system you propose is uncodeable

Oh, and you aren't on a blacklist. We don't have blacklists here. Only banlists

Don't worry, Dhelan. They clear the black list every month

seriously, it was an idea with good intentions. it just wouldn't work well. if you get new ideas, keep sending them. sooner or later, one of them mght be worth considering to implement. but then it have to be a dang good one

They clear it?!?!?!