Player Controlled Cabals

[Neewie]

I think we should bring back at least a partial amount of player control in cabals. For example a cabal is dying right now because the lack of appearance of their immortal. There are no elders, no members, no nothing. And the 2-3 active members cant do anything about it because they lack the powers.

Either that, or more immortals should involve in each cabal.

What do you think?

[Anume]

Which cabal would that be?

Actually, all but Herald have an active cabal Imm atm. Heralds have been told to adress anything they need a cabal Imm for to Immortal and recomment any possible inductees.

If a cabal Imm goes on vacation or is otherwise unable to be around, Malchaeius or I will usually handle things till he is back.

We tried player run cabals in 2.0 and were not really glad with the results. Buddy - buddy ooc inductions / promotions and everyone starting to avoid conflict and trade with everyone did not really make cabal life interesting or fair. We won't go back to that.

[Imoutgoodbye]

We tried player run cabals in 2.0 and were not really glad with the results. Buddy - buddy ooc inductions / promotions and everyone starting to avoid conflict and trade with everyone did not really make cabal life interesting or fair. We won't go back to that.

HALLELUJAH!

[Neewie]

ah eshaine I see your point. thinking of that I would rather not have player controlled cabals.

im talking about warmasters, we have been missing lytholm for quite a while (and its only because we love him)

[f0xx]

And the 2-3 active members cant do anything about it because they lack the powers.

I don't agree with that. What does "they lack powers" mean? I assume you are talking about "cabal powers" i.e. the powers of an elder?

I've told you many times in-game that the power a character posseses is not dependent on his cabal skills. Yes, cabal powers can boost his performance and make things easier, but if you are sololy relying on cabal powers, you are not going to reach far.

There are a lot of concepts you have grasped wrong about FL, but time will *fix* that

The biggest part in PK still comes from experience, speed, preperation.

Also, the fact that other cabals have Elders doesn't mean that your cabal *must* have one. Cabal promotions are not something you deserve by right. It is something you earn.

[Neewie]

no i mean powers to create treaties and introduce new members.

[Questioner]

They are not given that power yet because they have not shown to that respective cabal imm that they are worthy of being able to lead the cabal as trusted and elders.

[Neewie]

well if you would read my initial post again its kinda hard for said cabal. (and this has nothing to do with wanting promotion), but making the cabal able to continue living.

[Anume]

WM is relatively full, if you compare it to say Tribunal, very full

Mortal E / L can't induct new members, just your cabal Imm can. If he has someone he thinks worthy in the clan, he will do so.

[Imoutgoodbye]

well if you would read my initial post again its kinda hard for said cabal. (and this has nothing to do with wanting promotion)' date=' but making the cabal able to continue living.[/quote']

I'd rather see a cabal completely die off, have it's halls empty than see that crap that happened back in 2.0 where you had to suck/kiss/whatever word/action you want to use to describe what happens when AIM circles start ruling cabals.

[Neewie]

"WM is relatively full" of inactives, including the cabal leader (i can see when he logs on with the clan list feature). battle clan is empty for the same reasons, people know it will take a zillion years to get into wm. most of the wms are getting inactive, logging on every 4th day, and such its a whole downward spiral - with only more immortal presence being the solution as far as I can see.

[Imoutgoodbye]

"WM is relatively full" of inactives' date=' including the cabal leader (i can see when he logs on with the clan list feature). battle clan is empty for the same reasons, people know it will take a zillion years to get into wm. most of the wms are getting inactive, logging on every 4th day, and such its a whole downward spiral - with only more immortal presence being the solution as far as I can see.[/quote']

Try patience.

[Neewie]

ill just try another game then (lytholm has been quite inactive for a little month, and this is no blame, I know imms are no diff than us players regarding to how much they want to play, my point is that the game suffers more when an imm goes semiinactive because they control a cabal), people have asked why the game is so little active and this is another point. maybe make more imms run each cabal?

[Imoutgoodbye]

ill just try another game then' date=' people have asked why the game is so little active and this is another point.[/quote']

Sorry we didn't let you dictate how this game should be run. Enjoy your other game.

[Aulian]

Sorry we didn't let you dictate how this game should be run. Enjoy your other game.

Stow the attitude Valek.

I agree with Newie at some points. Anume is visible A LOT. Her cabal members ALWAYS have titles, ALWAYS have rp with their imm.

Other cabals I see have this lacking. Knight has a new imm thats around a bit it appears. The other cabals not so much. Even when I was in WM, I think I saw Lytholm twice in 5 months? And I was playing close to 35 hours a week (and if that isnt enough, wtf is?)

Imms give their time freely for us, no doubt we love them for that. But I think we SHOULD take a new players perspective seriously and Valek, that attitude is something I would NEVER have expected from you.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Imms give their time freely for us' date=' no doubt we love them for that. But I think we [b']SHOULD take a new players perspective seriously and Valek, that attitude is something I would NEVER have expected from you.

I'm sick of IMM bashing. I'm sick of "Oh, let's get more IMM's." It's not that simple. I prefer our "quality" of IMM over our "quantity/time" of IMM. Saying "Get more" and they "need to log more time" is BS. Sending NOTES gets things done in clans. Impressing your elder gets things done. Patience, not instant gratification.

I'm sick of feeling like we bend over backwards for newbs and the more we change and change and change and change....

Where are we going? How much more do we have to keep catering to make everything OK and newb friendly? How many times do we have to say something before someone gets it into their SKULL that, "Hey, they have history here. They MUST know something about what they're talking about."

Frick, I'll do ANYTHING to help a newb. But you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.....

I'll let you all sort it out...I've gotta hunt down my apartment manager because she gave me my recertification papers late and they have to be filed before the 31st....god, I'm sick of so much....

[Kyzarius]

Stow the attitude Valek.

I agree with Newie at some points. Anume is visible A LOT. Her cabal members ALWAYS have titles, ALWAYS have rp with their imm.

Other cabals I see have this lacking. Knight has a new imm thats around a bit it appears. The other cabals not so much. Even when I was in WM, I think I saw Lytholm twice in 5 months? And I was playing close to 35 hours a week (and if that isnt enough, wtf is?)

Imms give their time freely for us, no doubt we love them for that. But I think we SHOULD take a new players perspective seriously and Valek, that attitude is something I would NEVER have expected from you.

I think Valek's comment was warranted considering the "im just gonna leave then NYAH" comment he was replying too.

As far as immortal activity, I cannot vouch for WM or its IMM...however, I can say it never hurts to have the activity that you get in cabals like Nexus

[Aulian]

I'm sick of IMM bashing. I'm sick of "Oh' date=' let's get more IMM's." It's not that simple. I prefer our "quality" of IMM over our "quantity/time" of IMM. Saying "Get more" and they "need to log more time" is BS. Sending NOTES gets things done in clans. Impressing your elder gets things done. Patience, not instant gratification. [/quote']

I'd prefer that if you are going to argue with me, you dont put words into my mouth.

What I am saying is that for newer people, seeing their cabal imm once in a while would help I imagine. I've had enough elders and leaders to know how the system works thank you, and obviously I do use it enough to get those positions.

Shrug Im happy with that game. Just dont bag on newer players like that. Its NOT your place.

[Aulian]

I think Valek's comment was warranted considering the "im just gonna leave then NYAH" comment he was replying too.

As far as immortal activity, I cannot vouch for WM or its IMM...however, I can say it never hurts to have the activity that you get in cabals like Nexus

As a game we are in a competitive marketplace. There are ENDLESS options for any gamer out there on more consoles then I care to think about. If we are to stay competitive, and frankly, killing and dieing to the SAME people as we race to roll power combo's gets a little old after three or so years, then we must adapt to what new players want.

Im not saying change the game/administrators or any of that bull****, but LISTENING would be a damn good start.

I think the comment of "Im just going to leave" is a clear lesson for us, if we dont atleast attempt to give people what they want, or even explain clearly why things are they way they are or improve where our CUSTOMERS see us failing, we WILL loose them. And like any business without any custom, we will die out and be forgotten.

[Kyzarius]

As a game we are in a competitive marketplace. There are ENDLESS options for any gamer out there on more consoles then I care to think about. If we are to stay competitive, and frankly, killing and dieing to the SAME people as we race to roll power combo's gets a little old after three or so years, then we must adapt to what new players want.

Im not saying change the game/administrators or any of that bull****, but LISTENING would be a damn good start.

I think the comment of "Im just going to leave" is a clear lesson for us, if we dont atleast attempt to give people what they want, or even explain clearly why things are they way they are or improve where our CUSTOMERS see us failing, we WILL loose them. And like any business without any custom, we will die out and be forgotten.

it has been explained, just like it has been explained why we dont have guides and walkthroughs.

not liking the explaination and "threatening" to just leave is different from not getting nay explaination and doing the same.

[Grim_Reefer]

Valek, quit jerking off the imms so much in front of new players. You don't want to run people off with your hard-pressed right-wing outlook on this game. It is a game. I bring this up all the damn time, how come we can't discuss things hypothetically without someone getting mad. Mad? Thats dumb. Neewie was just trying to strike up some game-talk. Hes new, why would you try to just drive him off with your BS? As far as player-run cabals, that would be cool. I just wish everybody would play fair. I don't understand all this mudworship that goes on around here. Get a job, Valek.

[Grim_Reefer]

As a game we are in a competitive marketplace. There are ENDLESS options for any gamer out there on more consoles then I care to think about. If we are to stay competitive, and frankly, killing and dieing to the SAME people as we race to roll power combo's gets a little old after three or so years, then we must adapt to what new players want.

Im not saying change the game/administrators or any of that bull****, but LISTENING would be a damn good start.

I think the comment of "Im just going to leave" is a clear lesson for us, if we dont atleast attempt to give people what they want, or even explain clearly why things are they way they are or improve where our CUSTOMERS see us failing, we WILL loose them. And like any business without any custom, we will die out and be forgotten.

I fully agree.

[Imoutgoodbye]

bleh...not putting words in your mouth, Aulian. Just addressing the general complaint about this desire for a multitude of IMMs. People seem to think it's like picking apples from a tree. I apologize if you thought I was trying to put words in your mouth.

As for jobs, I think that's why so many of us don't put in the hours we used to. Kinda goes with have a life, ya know. I usually give up some sleep to play.

FL won't die if we don't let it. I understand what Neewie's looking for with player controlled cabals. But we've been down that road. We have that history to look back on. I sincerely wish newer players would listen sometimes. I'm not against discussion. But we do know what we're talking about there. It doesn't work, unfortunately.

FL's free. We don't charge like consoles and some muds even charge for special clients to play them. I'm sick to my stomach sometimes because I wonder if we're (by we're I mean the playerbase) selling Viri's creation down the river by trying to appease so many people at once.

*sigh* I'm not trying to jump down people's throats. But this threat of "I'll go to another game" got old so long ago. It practically warrants the "Dont' let the door hit you in the behind on the way out."

Where's L-A when I need him?

[Neewie]

i actually wrote that I did not blame ANY imms for lack of activity as I see them no different than other players. I proposed that there was more imms for each cabals.

And regarding making a game grow, I DO have a lot more experience at it than any of you (i run a football game with 300.000 active players [yes I can give link and proof yadda yadda] (18 million impressions weekly). I REALLY like this game, I play it for MANY hours, and I wanted to give some input after reading Raargants post. From all the muds I have tried this one is FAR superior codebasewise - and thus it must be something else that is wrong since the playerbase is so small.

edit:

for all games its important to build a comunity that helps the game and takes 'ownership' over the game. This will help having a lot of people care for the game and help it in any way it can. From my experience though, much of what the players that feel ownership over the game does here, is fight quite hard to keep some oldschool hierarchy (learn it the hard way for your own sake) - players do not want this PERIOD. Some might, theyll just dont read the forums. Others want to become part of the circle, but they are not let very easily in, in any aspects here.

[Imoutgoodbye]

From all the muds I have tried this one is FAR superior codebasewise - and thus it must be something else that is wrong since the playerbase is so small.

Thank you. Trust me, I do let my temper get away from me. We thought we had fixed our issue with playerbase size by getting a HUGE increase in voting and by trying to lower the PK learning curve by introducing the Two-Tiered PK System. I LOVE the idea of player-run cabals, but it was such a nightmare last time. Imagine having a faerie invoker with 120-some hours on him, several mastered spells, and you can't get into Savant because it's full of nothing but Healers? That's what happened to me in 2.0.

People want easy. They want to be safe. They want their shinies. You and I, we could go on and on about things like PK safe rooms....their's just a spirit and even though we often bicker amongst ourselves, a tight community here that has spread from the mud itself.

*shrug*

I don't doubt your football game. But what we have here is so....different. If only we could lure WoW players away from those graphics....

As to your edit, I honestly feel we roll out the red carpet these days for newer players. It might have a few moth holes in it, but it smells good, darnit! I don't understand what "inner circle" we're not letting you into either.