You can tell me 'it doesn't seem like you've read this thread' but I'll just tell you to read my post again and ask you, did I read the entire thread? Typically when someone says 'I'm probably not going to say too much thats new' the probably means they haven't read some of it, but in this context it would lean more towards not reading what others have said.
Also, using terms like 'giving up,' just doesn't work. This isn't something you win at, you asked for critisms, you don't win anything here, and neither do I. Regardless of what other people say about 'Oh so and so is an ***!' as if the title is cool. I am the way I am because thats how I am, not because I want to win awards or praise from anyone, and especially not from people like Zrothrum. But still, if I had given up I surely would not have given up at that point as my post continued onward, for quite a while, after that.
Also, you tout that line 'my opinion' as though it doesn't matter, then give me one of yours, thats base line hypocracy. I gave reasons, just because you don't like them doesn't make them disapear, and I had a hard time finding clear cut reasons why, until this last post. But it comes down to you asking for critism, my post isn't asking for critism, it's answering your call for it. I give you critisms, and asked you questions that I found a confusing issue on, if you don't want these kinds of resposnes, don't ask for them, and don't post ideas on the open forum.
Now back to the meat of it.
You keep bringing up exp penalties as coupled with Stats but haven't talked about all the other issues of exp penalties. Why? Exp penalties exists for more than stat adds. Lets take a look of just a few;
Minotaur: 500 exp for 97 stats
Elf: 500 exp for 102 stats
Human: 0 exp for 101 stats
Gnome: 150 exp for 102 stats
Fire: 150 exp for 94 stats
So wouldn't the exp penalty order go: (Fire)<(Mino)<(Human)<(Elf, Gnome)?
Also, a fire giant has a 25 max str with that 150 exp pen, an avian has a 23 yet still maintains a higher exp penalty.
It's everything about the race that sets exp penalties. The entire flow of stats, it's the vulnerabilities, it's the immunities, it's the options available for classes, it's the options available for alignment and ethos.
But should those highs and lows be set so firmly? They are meant to be ceilings' date=' the uppermost echelons reached only via supreme effort, not the standard that any character can reach. Yes, all the races on FL are diverse, but as I said earlier, that makes certain race/class combos very predictable in PK.[/quote']
Yes, those highs and lows should be set so firmly, it's the races abilities. It's a freaking gnome, no matter how hard he tries, a gnome will never be as strong as a human can be, however a gnome can be stronger than a human, an example would be a human mage with 17 str and a gnome warrior with 18. The Gnomes are typically weaker than humans, as represented by lower max str. No one forces a human mage to turn his strength upto 20, he can take those three trains to boost it from 17, and put it in mana instead for 30 more mana, or place it in hp, or move. I never train upto 20 str with my human mages, why? Because I know I'm just going to get some item along the way that will magically boost my strength, but you can be sure that the one gnome warrior I had in the past had his strength at 18. Also, how does your system change these highs and lows as firmly set? It would be absurd to have a gnome walking around with 25 strength as a possibility, beacuse gnomes are weak, just as the possibility for a Fire Giant to have a 25 wisdom, they are as sharp as a marble. Your system still has ceilings, you just make them harder to get to.
At 50' date=' you're the cream of the crop. At 50, I can see some characters getting close to maxing all stats. At 5, at 15, you're just another hardy adventurer. People should not be maxing their stats so early.[/quote']
And I'm sorry, but you're wrong. This has been the accepted truth of FL for as long as it's been FL. All players are Heros, and the NPCs are the simple guys. Maybe before you created your character he was the big fish in a small pond, and now they are in the ocean. Maybe in the small pond he could just bully people around with what he had(max stats), now he has to learn new things to get the same job done, and thats the players tactics. It seems that your idea is meant to nulify personal players ability, which removes the skill of the game. At 50 you have reached the pinicle in your guild, that does not represent your past accomplishments, past successes, just as Cabal rank does not signifiy guild rank, and just as a leader in a personal clan does not mean he has acomplished more, or 'better things' than someone who isn't, he's just done different things.
Now you mention distributing new hp on a curve, but why should high con races get less hp per level? I really don't see the reason for this? Part of the point of rolling a dwarf is getting the high hp, thats part of the reason why dwarves have the exp penalty they have, because they will have those extra hps.
but let me add that perhaps all characters should have an incentive to improve their strength?
And thats a bit... something... I can't quite think of the adjective... All characters do have incentive to improve their strengths... to get better. Isn't that incentive enough? They are already getting stronger in some way... Be it through more mana, more wisdom, more something. Now if you meant strength as the stat, they do, they can carry more weight and get a higher base hit dam.
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Why? As you have said to me, thats your opinion. You still haven't convinced me of this otherwise. For FL it's a very good thing, it is the thing.
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More variety among the race, but not the race/class. You still have cookie cutters. And No one would bother rolling an elf warrior just to maximize Str, Dex and Con, when he can roll a Slith Warrior and get a race presuited to play that class. It's a bad move.
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I agree completly, Stats are very fickle in pk, at times they mean less in pk than Racial vulns/immunities, and skills and spells available, and most importantly player skill. At other times if you are running around gimped to level 15 stats across the board, skill won't save you at all, you're toast.
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No amount of change will ever remove that predicatbiliy, there will always be the power gammer aspect of the game, no matter how much people want this to not be so, and I am one included I hate powergammers, it's going to be there, and players will roll a character to emulate the successful. Why do we have trends all the time? Why do we have 'Feral Rangers are overpowered' for two months then quickly followed by 'Tribunal is overpowered' for two months? Becuase someone succededs with one and then others emulate because they want to succeded. No one wants to do poorly, so they will maximize the means to produce the desired result and thats by going the easiest road.
Races are diverse enough, maybe their stats seem to fit a mold, but there isn't much you can do with five fields to change within a 25 point range when anything bellow 15 is considered a penalty, so really it's a 10 point range. But you have neglected all the other things that make races different. The vulnerabilites, the immunities, Alignment, Ethos, classes, cabals, all that.
And I brought up the old rolling to show that it has gotten better, FL will make changes for the better to the system. Just because you started the thread doesn't mean your the only person posting in it.
I've given my reason' date=' several times. You haven't ignored it, you understand it well enough to argue against it.[/quote']
I was argueing aganst the idea, I didn't see/understand (perhaps it was disbelief that those could possibily be reasons) your reasons why until this last post, and after reading your whys, I just reaffirm my stance that this is not a good idea.
I don't like your idea because it's not based on game mechincs, it's based on your sense of what is fair, your sense of how things should be, but that is just your sense. Players expecting to max there stats isn't a bad thing, and I guess in a way it's not a good thing, it's the way things are, it's how FL is. It's part of how fl is balanced, it's part of how races are balanced, it's part of how classes are balanced, it's part of how experiance penalties are figured.
You've produced an idea here, and Idea I think is bad. It's bad because it isn't needed, and it changes alot of FL, that would require people to learn a new way to play, and so much that it is a completely new game, and that is why it's bad. I play here because I like FL, not because I like the name Aabahran, not because I like the maps, but because I like FL. Changes like this change the game, you might as well tag an amendment with the idea that changes it to Zetakappa Lands, because it sure as hell won't be FL anymore.
Not let me make this clear, this is not a good idea for FL. I am sure this system would work well in another game, where things can be changed to such degrees, but FL is established.
WC
