Lack of PB...

[Imoutgoodbye]

I've been noticing some activity over on another thread with complaints about the lack of playerbase size.

I'm probably going to forever be puzzled by our low numbers.

And I know this is pointless, but anyone got any ideas for growing the playerbase?

First person to point fingers at ANYTHING negative gets sweet chin music. I'm just looking for an extremely positive thread that doesn't involve any changes/fixes/etc...for growing the playerbase, as in pulling in NEW BLOOD.

And I refuse to think those "graphic" things are better. We're the ones that make this mud good. Without RP/open ended interaction, this place would suck, like those games. Ultimate replayability right here, baby. Someone call Game Informer...I want that 10/10 for replayability.

[H&R]

Make Eshaine head of everything. She is superwoman, she can do anything.

[H&R]

We need something new and exciting, hard coded into the game. It's been a while now.

[The-Nameless]

We need to address our current issues that drive people away. Without pointing out issues/people that sounds vague. But personally I have recently had an imm pull me up after I typed delete once because of what I was dealing with. FL seems to be losing it's beautiful fantasy attraction, and scaling ever so swiftly towards PK only. I think if people would only try to RP, even if it is just a basic, racial stereotype that is 100% fine.

[f0xx]

Everytime I experience something that doesn't feel right, I post in the prayer forum. Sometimes I am right, most of the times I am wrong. Generally, I try to keep negative things (like this mud lacks PB, this skill is OP, this guy is trashy) away from the public forum. IMMs are your friends, talk to them, they *will* help, all you have to do is inform them.

[klemkin]

One thing this game and China does have in similiar is this I think anyways. The plain folk don't usually feel an ownership over anything here. It is staffs game, they just play it. In Pakistan and China (we cannot "own" land, it is governments), this has manifests by people defecating in streets and sidewalks, selfish attitudes, and vandalizing among other bad things. In this game, it might be have parallel affect. For example just to name a few, cheating, raging, deleting, cussing at staff, and giviing flame on the internet forums. I have very few ideas how to give senses of ownership to the plain folks, but it is clear some people like Valek have it. Please notice "senses of ownership" and "entitlement" are two different things. Example is people not spit in their homes, but spit on a bus or restaurant floor in some countries where there is no ownerships. I know it is difficult and staffs are trying, but brainstorm ideas to give this sense to players and especially new players.

There is no economy here in insides of this game. Maybe include one so that instead of just have a new ability, you can have new plane of playing altogether. This can be done easiest by making an economy staff working behind the scenes to encourage it, and buy and sell for themselves. I know maybe crafting is impossible, but that doesn't make other methods not viable. (Why sell to someone for lower when the imm will buy for higher, it will set prices more rigidly.) Even occasionally, they might hold auctions. Yes, player can do this, but for stability... temporary immortal should start and maybe pass it on.

Also, instead of doing chats like this on a forum where new people read, have a focused group of players in a chat room with staffs sometimes (once pr twice a month.) Circulate invites (with a preference on the new people). It will make people think they are necessary.

I am sorry for the cement wall of words, but I'd free time and put my thoughts in.

[H&R]

This guy is deep. Someone make him an imm

[bavarianbrew]

I respect this post because it's true.

Of course Forsaken Lands is a Dictatorship. I don't even know who the owners of this game are or who's paying its bills! I have no say in the matter. Because of this, there's no accountability to the playerbase. If Forsaken Lands disappears, we as players are totally F'ed. Who the hell are the staffers anyway? Where do they come from and why the hell should we care? I'm starting to think Forsaken Lands is just a line on some sorry bastards Curriculum Vitae. Kind of a personal reference if you will.

Wanna build the playerbase, hand the game over to some young 20 something college nerds that'll freaking take the programing to the next level with Nerdgasm Troops in the wings! Eventually, they'll use Forsaken Lands on their own CVs to land a job at Electronic Arts.

Foly Huck, the current Dread Pirate Roberts needs to retire.

One thing this game and China does have in similiar is this I think anyways. The plain folk don't usually feel an ownership over anything here. It is staffs game, they just play it. In Pakistan and China (we cannot "own" land, it is governments), this has manifests by people defecating in streets and sidewalks, selfish attitudes, and vandalizing among other bad things. In this game, it might be have parallel affect. For example just to name a few, cheating, raging, deleting, cussing at staff, and giviing flame on the internet forums. I have very few ideas how to give senses of ownership to the plain folks, but it is clear some people like Valek have it. Please notice "senses of ownership" and "entitlement" are two different things. Example is people not spit in their homes, but spit on a bus or restaurant floor in some countries where there is no ownerships. I know it is difficult and staffs are trying, but brainstorm ideas to give this sense to players and especially new players.

There is no economy here in insides of this game. Maybe include one so that instead of just have a new ability, you can have new plane of playing altogether. This can be done easiest by making an economy staff working behind the scenes to encourage it, and buy and sell for themselves. I know maybe crafting is impossible, but that doesn't make other methods not viable. (Why sell to someone for lower when the imm will buy for higher, it will set prices more rigidly.) Even occasionally, they might hold auctions. Yes, player can do this, but for stability... temporary immortal should start and maybe pass it on.

Also, instead of doing chats like this on a forum where new people read, have a focused group of players in a chat room with staffs sometimes (once pr twice a month.) Circulate invites (with a preference on the new people). It will make people think they are necessary.

I am sorry for the cement wall of words, but I'd free time and put my thoughts in.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Yep, I shoulda known better.....

[mya]

Reasons:

- Low ownership mentality.

- Dictatorship, no PR image of staff.

- Repressive forum regime (partial).

Avenue of attack:

- Low ownership mentality.

Players Houses, easy access to customization (players statues in cities/places).

Named equipment, "Brand weapon"

Easier access to no PK rewards, and and minor PK rewards.

Like, restrings, easy basic undead (not Powercombos), lest time consuming PSI/Lich/Crusader (50 restrings take a heavy toll on players morale).

- Dictatorship, no PR image of staff.

New PR IMM (if one not already exists)

IMM page, make imm look human. Create empathy.

- Repressive forum regime (partial).

I don't think something can be done here. IMM's and some players like a slow/controlled information flow. I, personally, have a different opinion, but i can understand their reasons.

------

Keep brainstorming reasons, and we will get more ideas for action plans flowing.

[Nirn]

My 2 cents

I think part of the problem is it seems to me now, and this has not always been true, that the current PB is 99% old school players that have been playing this game constantly for 10 years. I myself have played for about six or seven, albeit with a few long breaks lasting months or more.

The noobs just don't have a chance pk wise. I have a hard enough time and I half way know the mud.

Also the really good equipment comes from places where you almost need to be in a cabal to have access. You need four or more pinnacled characters and more importantly someone who knows the way and or passwords required.

I have racked my brain to come up with a way to level the playing field and have come up with nothing.

Recently since I have started playing again a couple of months ago I have found the IMM staff to be excellent. This has not always been the case. I remember having a DK back in the day who did everything right to become a vampire and my app was rejected. I tried to rp and pk even more and wrote a longer better app and was told no I was rejected forever(No reason given) and not to even bother trying. I quit playing for about a year that time it pissed me off so bad. Of course then no one cared or even noticed because there were plenty of players around.

I guess my point is players who put forth the effort should be allowed to do or be what they want ( Within the limits of the code).

I think it is obvious to all we need new blood. The game is mostly newbie friendly, ie adventurer class and helpful imms. So I guess voting would help if we have enough of a base left to reach the mudconnectors top 10 that should help. Basically though any noob walking into the current PB is just fresh meat waiting for the grinder.

During a recent mud crash I was bored and tried a few top 10 games. I did not stick around long , but was amazed by the number of players logged in, even late at night. I think FL is one of the best muds around and hope it can regain its former glory.

Anyway I am ranting but hope some of this makes sense to some.

[Ali_gmud]

Certainly does.

I've been playing for 5-6 years and even I still have trouble vs'ing some of the current players. lol and theres no mercy when you get steam rolled.

[Twinblades713]

I feel like the fun is taken out of the game when RP is not given as much of a chance at pinnacle. Imms have to RP with us, that's what they're basically there for. Players don't. I found this is becoming more and more of a gem to find: A person who RPs with their enemy. It's not new, but I'll be the one to state the opinion. I'm finding more solo rpgs to occupy my time with as well, same ideals with less abuse. The Witcher is pretty freakin awesome.

[Ali_gmud]

The Witcher is pretty freakin awesome.

Apart from the breasts, the game (imo) was very average, the main character is pretty badass though. He's like a skinny Arthas.

I find RP mid PK, the mix together is awesome. In most of my recent fights, I'd try and emote inbetween combat commands, but that often lead to nothing but a dirt in the face, or a hyposis.

[The-Nameless]

I have been fighting the same few people at pinn. Across 3 characters I am getting only threats of multi killing. While TRYING to rp, basically BEGGING the character what motivates them, why they are after me, I was ignored by a qrace. How amazing is that?

[Twinblades713]

How amazing is that?

Not that amazing.

[myrek]

I have been fighting the same few people at pinn. Across 3 characters I am getting only threats of multi killing. While TRYING to rp' date=' basically BEGGING the character what motivates them, why they are after me, I was ignored by a qrace. How amazing is that?[/quote']

??? How many of us are mass murderers? I'm going to guess zero. How many of us talk with people? Most of us. So which is playing a role: killing or talking?

Why would you want to chat with someone who is trying to kill you? I'd love for just one person to play a character with PTSD from getting killed. Maybe act like you're afraid of the person who killed you.

Just stirring the pot.

[The-Nameless]

I remember wilibald RPed that he was scared ****LESS of scorvale. It was great from what I saw. But I am not asking for a novel about your char. Maybe more than an Im going to kill you over, and over and over followed closely by an ignore.

[myrek]

Part 1

Undead Thief has been badgering me about coming back. So I've been lurking around the forum to see what has changed and what has stayed the same. Apparently this has stayed the same.

Here's what I'm seeing as problem number 1: The staff has been listening to what people say. They've been listening and busting their *** to add code that doesn't need to be added.

One of my basic rules for living is to never believe what people say. Watch what they do. Actions speak louder than words. Insert 2 cliches of your own. Bitch all you want. You know I'm right.

Then what is the "action" we should be watching? FL when it was popular. What did it have that FL doesn't have now?

1. new areas to explore

2. new classes to explore

3. new races to explore

4. new quests to explore

5. new skills to explore

6. new spells to explore

7. new cabals to explore

8. an enforced global storyline

9. IMM pushed storylines

This stuff made us all excited. We told our friends. They joined up.

Now, 1-7 is always going to be new to new players. But you need the last two to keep them interested.

The storyline stuff: To quote a cable television channel, conflict is drama. The whole premise of the game is conflict: us vs them. It always has been. If you remove that, FL becomes a chat room with costumes. Warmaster vs Savant. Knight vs Nexus. The storyline was that the world was ablaze with war. Sometimes it was as simple as good vs evil. It has even been everyone against the shades.

What conflict do we have now? We don't. So you invent your own or default to the system's battles (cabal vs cabal; good vs evil; etc).

The hard way to boost interest:

1. new areas to explore

2. new classes to explore

3. new races to explore

4. new quests to explore

5. new skills to explore

6. new spells to explore

7. new cabals to explore

The easy way:

1. continue giving out description awards; more customized items would be better

2. continue giving out custom titles, the more IMM given awards the better (assuming that they are deserved)

3. introduce IMM driven plots with aspects that require intervention from all cabals/races/classes. I'm not for a pwipe unless it is part of a storyline. This can be pushed by mortals but it is hard for a mortal to push as many people as an Imm can.

4. put out a state of the state posing here on the forum. What is the storyline right now this second? Is it a world on fire? Are we in the calm before the storm? The calm after the storm?

None of those require any coding.

Previously, someone mentioned player ownership. Bah. Stupid. If players want ownership, players should work towards Imm-status. However, character ownership is a good thing. That can help give people something to do with their characters.

Another complaint is players with secret RP. A possible partial solution (requires some coding) is to have a way for players to enter a character's goals. Only Imms and the character would be able to see it. It would let Imms see what a character is trying to achieve. It would let Imms see what a character has done (as a character marks goals complete).

[myrek]

Part 2 Being Newbie Friendly

1. keep things tough. the amount of work involved in getting something directly affects its value. something freely given has no value.

2. the academy needs to be disassociated from Heralds. it needs to be open to members from all cabals. classes need to be given by "famous" characters of all flavors. (I could not find the automated classes that Myrek gave.)

3. the storylines needed from the Imms have be accessible to lower level characters. "the game starts at 50" has to go away.

4. there is no one to rank with. xp bonuses need to go up or level requirements need to go down.

5. fake the benefits of a fuller player base. part of that is #4. another lost benefit from a large player base is loose equipment. maybe set up a script to put random equipment in the pits occasionally... or even just laying around on the ground.

[The Greased Weasel]

As usual, well spoken Myrek

However on a side note, I hate to be the grim harbinger of reality however MUDS are dying lets face it every MUD out there, their PBASE is shrinking and dying with MMORPGS. The older players are already set in their ways, and trenched in to their favourite muds watching them walk along, while the newer generation who would be attracked to something akin to these is sucked in by the media and avdertising of the MMO world, cause last I checked we didn't have multigajillazoon dollar advertising budgets.

[myrek]

i agree with the draw of the MMO world. But I wondering if the recession will be bringing people back.

[The Greased Weasel]

Actualy, with the recession their player bases are growing sadly.

I still do post mortems for EA, and have friends in the Blizzard camp the recession is making the MMO market grow, because folks are seeing for 15 bucks a month they can stay home, and become large hutt like creatures and not worry about the costs of entertaining, going to movies, or out for dinner.

[Evangelion]

I agree with many of the things Myrek said. Here is my somewhat wordy response to everything.

1) Ownership

If you don't feel you have ownership in this game, that's because you're not actively seeking it. The Racial History project was a HUGE opportunity for at least 13 people to get very actively involved in an IMM-run project. Also, building. I am not and never have been an IMM here, and yet I have built two areas for the MUD. Also, the snippet coding. I don't have any idea how much this has been taken advantage of, but I'd venture to guess not much. There are ways that you can establish a sense of ownership or purpose in the community here without being an IMM, and yet so few people take advantage of them. Hint hint: This will also contribute to the development of NEW and EXCITING things for the MUD.

Also, take ownership in your characters. Don't let this go overboard, because that's when you start getting frustrated every time you die. But if you play your characters long enough and hard enough, you'll get the rewards you justly earn. Never give up, never surrender. Own your part in this game, and if you don't like where you are, work to improve your role.

2) Practice What You Preach

So many people here are incredibly hypocritical. For whatever reason, people will come to the forum and lay down their ideal FL. They will talk about how they think people should be honorable and there should be a level of class, and "Oh, how far gone the good old days are." Well, I can tell you that many of those same people (and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular here) go out and gang, full loot, etc.

I don't care if you believe in dishonorable, silent PK and 100% full loots. What I do care about is that you don't claim that you believe in honorable kills on the forum, where new members see it and thus expect it in game, and then let the **** fly in game. Because that's exactly why our new members come, try things out for a week or two, and then peace. We set them up with these hopeful ambitions of a classy playerbase, and then treat them like crap in game. I don't know if anyone ever played Runescape, but if you remember "The Wilderness," that area where you could attack anyone you were in the range of at the time, no holds barred, and anything flew. People went in there and enjoyed it because they knew what they were getting themselves in to. Here, people get lied to and set up for something totally different than what they receive.

3) Build the Community, And the Game Will Follow

We need to make this forum a more appealing place for our new members. People come for the game, but they stay for the community. I can tell you that I have been sucked back into playing this game more times than I can count because of the people I've met here. And I can also tell you that I would have been gone the very first time without them.

So stop posting your rage-filled delete/whining threads. Stop spewing your hateful nonsense. You can't want to improve this MUD and want to act like you're 14 again, and go on a huge forum rant every time you cop a full loot.

4) IMM Transparency

Let us know what you're working on. Ask us for our opinions. Don't always take them, and never let the immediate feelings of the playerbase affect your decisions.

Also, be VISIBLE in game. I know you're busy. And I know when you're doing stuff for FL, it's easier to be wizinvis and building on test and switch back and forth every few minutes. But I'd rather see you take a 20 minute break from building your area, and interact with some players. Or, better yet, hire new IMMs whose sole job is to interact with players. You've got people who play A LOT. Use them. If you show some trust, you'll be surprised at the wonderful results you can get - and I think you'll find that very little lasting harm can be done if you get a bad egg amidst all the good ones.

And I know you like to watch people and not have them know that you're there, because their actions are more candid. But think of it like this: When you're roleplaying, perhaps its okay for your actions to be influenced by whether or not your cabal IMM is online. Perhaps it's okay for that to inspire you to greatness. And if we have IMMs on a lot more, then people will be inspired to greatness a lot more. So maybe it's okay for people to know you're watching.

[The Greased Weasel]

Good points Evangelion