mage extinction

[Mindflayer]

It's all part of the experience ajwetton.. enjoy.

[ajwetton]

yea but i get used to playin healers, where i pretty much don't die. lol so that happening sucks alot more

[Warmongrel]

I think the main issue is the fact that balance has shifted towards the benefit of melees.

Small changes like the addition of ranged combat, better sanctuary, feral fury, herbs, rangers revamp, Blademasters, had an profound impact in the mage balance.

As the melees and their items evolved, Mages remained the same.

Herbs introduced many new advantages for melees, but scrolls/wands/staves hardly changed.

With the exception of the relaxation of flight consumables.

I've had nothing but melees in the last 6-8 monts, but all the same changes were there for the last couple mages I had. And I still think the majority of melee's are struggling to compete with most mages. As a cleric I was usually decked, but I could take out some of the toughest most decked melees with nothing but a dawnbringer mace and a hightower shield. Where MOST melee's except for my last one, were completely f'd without atleast very decent eq, and plenty of consumables when going up against just about any mage.

As for you Lytholm, keep those ideas to yourself! The changes you've made are enough Make the mobs uncalmable too, since they can't be tamed, might aswell not be able to be calmed. But leave it at that! Most veteran players are gonna be able to solo just about anything that a small group can take on, aslong as they have the patience. Now, that's without some of the cheap tactics that others use, most of those I just plain don't agree with and you should come up with ways to make them more....challenging.

[Warmongrel]

Players do what the game skills allow them to.

Like Rangers using arrows to sleep trains of mobs.

Teleporting in to Order. The fault of which lays as the hands of IMM's (like you Lytholm) .

Or that potion, Class/Qrace spell.

I have zero problems with this. If you are smart enough to figure how to do this and have the patience for it, good for you.

If you take 30 min to get a banner alone or 10 with 3 Cabal mates is indifferent for me.

If it took you 2 hours to solo magic, just to get that nice thing, then good. I shall sacing it if i do kill you.

What i do not like, is imbalanced items. Like the L56 Haste, the Healing gear or the Ring of Abyss. Things that shift the scale so much should not exist.

Some of you may think this are cool end game toys, but they just ruin the game.

End game toys should be things like Malforms that you actively slowly work on.

Still i do not see the relation of mage extinction and gear availability.

Level 56 haste? Hrmm, only knew of the 1 hour haste from the two diff things. Healing gear really doesn't do THAT much, but some of the healing consumables are a bit excessive I think. Honestly, I've never really noticed a difference wearing or not wearing ring of abyss. Whether someone has it on them or not, my spells seem to land relatively the same. Maybe two rings of abyss would do the trick though. Only reason I ever got them was because of it's cool name. You know, it's wierd though, you didn't seem to have any problem with the + spell lvl eq that you constantly go after. You don't think those ones ruin the game like the others you mentioned?

[f0xx]

I like how f0xx and mya both only play ONE CLASS... geez people' date=' experiment![/quote']

LOL? Me having 2 blademasters one after the other doesn't mean I play only BLMs. Although I must admit, my PK skills imrpoved a lot after playing them.

Also, my current and the one before him were not BLMs too, so in your face you illithid man!

I also doubt Mya playes only clerics. No person can really overcome the boredome of playing the same class over and over, even in different cabals.

[tassinvegeta]

I know someone who played like 10 clerics.

But I don't feel those powerful items destroy the game. Its what actually keep players coming back for more. If anything there should be more of them around so everyone can get a hold of them.

[Elfrosto]

I've played like....6 rangers. lol.

[Lytholm]

I know someone who played like 10 clerics.

But I don't feel those powerful items destroy the game. Its what actually keep players coming back for more. If anything there should be more of them around so everyone can get a hold of them.

Tas: Not totally directed at you, its just the nearest relevant post for me to quote

As far as super powerful items go - I too believe there are several that should be put into a deep black hole never to emerge. We'll see about that when the time comes....which I think might be sooner rather than later.

As far as you all not liking high level areas being made challeging - why the hell not? I hate the idea that my lvl 50 melee can wander through area's that are signed 'You're probably going to need a group of three or more.' That's not skills - that's sh!t. Especially when I'm in non-rare eq doing it. The game has moved along skills and spells wise and its time area's and mobs caught up. Super god suits are NOT your right to have - they should take a month or more's work to get something together. Ice armor, rings of acc, boots, marble bracelets and so on should NOT be considered 'standard' eq when you play. IMHO they should be true 'endgame' pieces that you have to strive hard for. If you manage to get a suit together it SHOULD be something of note not 'just another day of eq trips.'

Perhaps I'm going soft but I think that giving lvl 50s a challenge in the game keeps the game far more interesting, people on the edge of their seat and more fun than having everyone is super high eq which skews class balance so far with some of the abilities you can get and use.

To draw a parallel - Diablo 2's skill level was SEVERELY upp'd in LoD and it was a sucess. Don't tell me you all loved running the Chaos Sanctuary half asleep and/or stoned in Hell difficulty. Don't tell me you didn't secretly like (even though it was frustrating) that you could really die there once Baal came to town. Don't tell me that you'd rather be able to fall asleep at your computer, wake up and have your friends have wiped out the Factions while you were dozing and start dividing up the eq. I don't think that's fun at all. I remember when we needed huge groups to go to Desolation, when you didn't even think of going to Steel without a communer and if you didn't have five or more people the only Blood you were going to see was from the backhand someone gave you for being so stupid as to suggest it.

THAT was fun - because when you DID get your act together you really felt like achieved something.

Of course, these ideas are mine alone and not other IMMs. A good thing as many of my peers help moderate some of the ideas I have which need it. Not all mind you, but some

Lytholm.

PS - Mya: The easier access to high level items teh easier melee's powerspike are accessed. Many players like 'power combos' so if the powerspike is easily accessed via eq - and eq is easy to get - they play it.

[Mindflayer]

Do any of you have any Abandoned Realms experience? House of Prayer, which isn't open in Forsaken Lands' version of Winter, was nasty. You'd need a group of at fourth or more to handle that. Same with the other factions.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I have no problem with making these areas more difficult (I actually believe it's a MUST), however, we're still lacking players, making getting there possibly more difficult than it should be? It would most definitely encourage some form of cooperation, however, I can also see this making allied cabals that are already powerful even more so...

That's right...I'd love to see a bunch of you stuck in the same decent gear I'm usually in...those "starter" sets as they've been termed.

[Brehan]

Fl was like that in 1.0 and early 2.0, you needed a group to get just about anything. Lytholm is right about classes and skills having been done and is right about the areas and mobs not being done to catchup. As well there has been some secret tactics that has made these areas far easier to get through. I remember the good old days when it took a group of three to take Lord Firidon down and one of them had to have protective shield. Yesterday I solod him without Prot shield in one trip, that would never happen in these time frames I spoke of. Overall its just to darn easy for anyone to get these uber items these days.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Hmmm.....new gear...revamp/tone down the old stuff and make it slightly easier to access...

GEAR SURPLUS!

Come one, come all, get your used-to-be-god-gear right here at the Reverend's Temple! That's right, we're slashing mob levels and EVERYTHING MUST GO!

[Celerity]

Yeah, and why don't we make ranking dangerous and more like questing instead of droning and spam hunting?

...Oh wait, we tried that with the Volcano and everyone complained.

Last time I make an area for you smucks.

[Celerity]

More class paths and more class prep options (like stances, optional skills with bonuses and penalties) and you can fairly easily solve the eq gap/need problem without overpowering mages/communers

...and make the game a lot more interesting at the same time!

[Lytholm]

Yesterday I solod him without Prot shield in one trip' date=' that would never happen in these time frames I spoke of. Overall its just to darn easy for anyone to get these uber items these days.[/quote']

That is truly pathetic that Firidon and Ludan have let their training fall to such depths. I wonder what new 'skills' these jokers can learn from the God of Combat...after a good beating for not keeping up their martial skills of course

Lytholm.

[-Totenkopf-]

Well, there is a fine balance I think. With todays player base, its a bit hard to get a big group going. I got logs of Gear runs, deso runs, etc etc. We had 4, 6, 8 people. Sometimes numerous of us still died. I don't know how it got all so much easier? I just come back after 5 years and people are soloing everything. I've seen people solo the puppetmaster. ****, I remember going to him with a HUGE group.

Azaghtoth had what at the time was considered a wicked suit, by todays standards it nothing.

I have a huge problem myself. I don't have the time or motivation to go on EQ trips, and my current character is rather inhibited from tripping as well, just due to their nature.

I cant justify spending 2 or three hours just to get a couple of shinies. Everything I've gathered I've worked hard for. Generally got it quicker by looting it from someones corpse. One thing that still irks me is life insurance. Cost should be ramped up alot, or, a cooldown before it can be used again if you die under its effect. As it is, people can, and do, use it 24/7 when faced with a challenge. Its some sort of limp wristed tactic to keep that killer set your wearing.

I used LI for the first time in a long long time tonight. I was faced with a scenario where I could have been tagged/ganged by three players, most of which I know would have had LI themselves. If I do die (and what follows is a complete full loot of saccing) I know people are going to be jumping out of the wood work just to get a bit of revenge against my character. In the end, I didn't die anyway. Ghashubal just soloed all the way to order today, and got robbed of the nimbus in the end (haha, I was actually planning on doing the very same thing, its my nimbus that got eaten by a world shift anyway - didn't get the opportunity to regather it - read above). This is wrong IMHO, for a character to be able to solo those areas that EASILY (it didn't take them that long, I was watching them for a fair while) is sheer lunacy. I cant imagine the defense/damage output they must have.

Ah well, I am going to bed *snores*

[Nomak]

Very well said Toten.I remember when you played Azaghtoth, how Olotha(Mhladors'cleric) was decked- Cube of force,spike light steel gauntlets even spider climbing leggings were the asskick.Now this is nothing now everyone is in steel,gear eq

[Sandbox]

Very well said Toten.I remember when you played Azaghtoth' date=' how Olotha(Mhladors'cleric) was decked- Cube of force,spike light steel gauntlets even spider climbing leggings were the asskick.Now this is nothing now everyone is in steel,gear eq[/quote']

this is the single most discouraging thing about 50 for players like me. I can do VERY well in pk all the way up to 42 and from 42 on its a complete flip. No matter what class i have i seem to do decent before that 42 mark. Once all this ridiculous god gear and cabal skills come into the equation i am just malform food and or cabal points.

[Celerity]

Once all this ridiculous god gear and cabal skills come into the equation i am just malform food and or cabal points.

Surprisingly accurate! I really couldn't agree more...I think this is truer than you know!

[mya]

Hey, lets go easy on Mobs immunities. This is not the solution, to blanket limit skills/spells.

I used to play another mud that used hard coded emote damage with no magic rooms to solve this problem. It make the game totally unenjoyably.

People need to use their skills, and they should land.

Just make some mobs more resistant to it, and others vulnerable.

Calm is quite buggy, with calmed mobs assisting other mobs. It's a calm and move or die, for example to cross the Frost giants.

This is quite well balanced.

Another thing, if you increase the damage from mobs, reduce the number of attacks. It's better for a player to take a Mangle than 3 decimates a round.

Less spam, and it creates some respect.

Now, want useful skills for bosses to prevent soloing ?

Warrior Boss

- Haymaker - No Save. Good luck.

- Ironarm Disarm. - Talk about turning the tables.

- Push - Never seen this one used.

- Roar - -10% prof

- Critical strike - Poison, this will make ogres mad.

- Behead - Healers will suddenly become popular again.

Mage Boss:

- Dispel, mages boss should dispel. Not a lot, but a bit. Good luck saving L56 Dispels.

- Dancing Blades - High output damage spell vs all.

- Weaken - There goes your weapon.

- Steel Wall - This one is sick, i completely hate it. No defense check.

- Slow - Lol... it's fun.

- Spell Turning - Quite balanced, as you waste time downing it.

- Poison - Bring a communer

- Energy Drain - There goes half your mana/moves.

See, it's fun. Use the skills avaiable on bosses, and don't jack up the minion in the path to boss.

Fighting a boss 15 min can be entertaining, but fighting 20 minions for 15 min is dull as hell. Less minions and stronger is the best idea.

Items.

If you going to make it difficult to get rings of accuracy/Ice armor.

Then make some in-between items.

Using a onyx ring from Rank 15 to Condeath is not fun.

And stop with the freaking DEX penalties, they make using most of this pieces pointless, as you need to waste a EQ slot with a pure DEX Eq.

[Nomak]

No Mya please don't give ideas again.

[f0xx]

There already are mobs that do most of those Mya. Push, haymaker, even WM skills and psi skills are used by certain mobs in certain areas.

Besides, how would that really prevent soloing?

[mya]

I could take out some of the toughest most decked melees with nothing but a dawnbringer mace and a hightower shield.

In a long away past, with your Storm Cleric. Now things are not that easy.

Also:

+ SpellLevel Items are not uber. They are a very balanced mechanics.

There is a CAP, that everyone speculates the exact value.

In my opinion is +3 above your Casting level at 50.

Anyways +2+4 the point is that's quite difficult to even get +2, and that this bonus can be countered with saves from a single piece of eq.

Hit/Dam roll, on contraire do not have a CAP, just diminishing returns, allowing you to totally deck in one of them.

This is what makes EQ melees so dangerous. Mages have a power plateau, melees have a step mountain.

[Ali_gmud]

See, it's fun. Use the skills avaiable on bosses, and don't jack up the minion in the path to boss.

Fighting a boss 15 min can be entertaining, but fighting 20 minions for 15 min is dull as hell. Less minions and stronger is the best idea.

Amen to that.

[mya]

Are you kidding ?

Haymaker vs a Mage ? You eat more damage, and waste mana recasting stuff.

Dispel + Bash = Let's not do this alone as a mage.

Poison, Weaken,Steel Wall - Good luck soloing something when you cannot sleep, hit like a girl and are hit every round.