hooray for fights!

[jibber]

The second when all guns are banned (except for recreational uses such as hunting, and even then are impossible to kill people (or something)) I will not own a gun. Until then, for the same reasons as posted by nearly everyone (easily being able to get a gun BECAUSE you're mentally unstable, (and whose to say someone's mentally unstable? People can hide it pretty damn well)) I will hold one dearest to me, and protect my family. Always.

[Mali]

Yep, in America everyone has a right to have a gun if they are not a felon, a drug addict, but are of a sound mind, a lawful citizen, of the appropriate age, and have completed the necessary checks and licenses required by the state.

Gun safety is a good idea. More gun control isn't. Maybe you folks across the water disagree, but that doesn't matter. You can't vote here, you don't live here, and your opinions are built around the outlier population of psychopaths that would hurt people regardless of their choice of weapon.

In this modern age, I am sure that anyone who really wants a gun in any country could get one without too much trouble. That leaves lawful citizens literally 'outgunned' by those who can and will carry firearms, whether that is the bad guy or their own police force/government agents.

[Nekky]

No one has responded to my example about carrying guns in the street and using them ;p

And also, I never said that Americans don't have the right to bear arms.

[jibber]

I think he was responding to the fact that guns are banned in Australia. And to the others who claimed because they are (or likely) that there's not been many shootings there

[Pali]

police force/government agents.

I would like to quickly point out that THIS is the threat the Second Amendment of the US Constitution exists to counter, not the "bad guy" you might run into on the street.

Nekky, you are 100% correct that if you've got a gun pointed at you, going for your own is a bad idea. However, openly (not concealed, but openly) carrying a weapon does serve somewhat as a deterrent, and may on its own prevent you from getting into that situation in the first place.

[-Totenkopf-]

Wow,

All I can say, is what a ****ed up place to live. Tell me now, what makes Australia different, we've got a heap of rednecks here, but it was never found necessary for anyone to carry a firearm?

Firearms aren't banned here, your just not allowed to go carrying them around on your belt.

As Nekky was wise to point out, if you are in a position to use and gun, and not get yourself killed in the process, you are drawing the "Go go jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200". card. In which case, due to your capital punishment laws, you may also risk death yourself. Tell me, what is your wife and family going to do when your dead or in jail. They are down an income, probably loose the house due to being incapable of paying the mortgage.

Either way, your pretty screwed. If someone REALLY wants to shoot you, they'll do it if you have a gun or not. Its not hard to stand 20 feet away, pull a gun, and shoot you dead. If someone pulls a gun on you to extort money or goods, hell, give it to them. Losing your life is not worth any money in the world, nor all the 'pride' in the world.

My opinion. You do not have to agree. If I lived in the USA, I wouldn't carry a firearm. If someone wants you dead, you'll be dead.

[jibber]

Firearms aren't banned here' date=' your just not allowed to go carrying them around on your belt. [/quote']

Hah, didn't know that. Just had a lot of people tell me firearms were banned in Australia :-/ Maybe they forgot to say "Banned to carry!"

As Nekky was wise to point out' date=' if you are in a position to use and gun, and not get yourself killed in the process, you are drawing the "Go go jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200". card. [/quote']

Not necessarily...

In which case' date=' due to your capital punishment laws, you may also risk death yourself.[/quote']

Correct me if I'm wrong, fellow Americans, but I don't think you can be sentenced to die by a Judge. Only by a jury of your peers. And if that's the case, most will understand why you used the gun (if it's used in defense). There's also "MAKE MY DAY" laws in several states, were you have the right to shoot to kill anyone who breaks into your house. Secondly, only a few states still have the capitol punishment laws in effect.

Tell me' date=' what is your wife and family going to do when your dead or in jail. They are down an income, probably loose the house due to being incapable of paying the mortgage.[/quote']

I'd hope my life insurance covered them for life And if it meant me dying instead of them, you damn well bet I'll die first!

If someone wants you dead' date=' you'll be dead.[/quote']

So very true!

[-Totenkopf-]

Semi automatic firearms were banned after the Port Arthur massacre.

[The-Nameless]

Law permits me to protect myself, my family, and my home with a firearm. I will do so. I feel it is only smart to protect yourself as best as possible. This also means learning to use a gun, store a gun, and care for a gun properly. I realize if someone wants me dead, they are going to give it one hell of a go. I do not believe this means that I have to sit and wait for them to do the deed.

[Pali]

Totenkopf was talking specifically about carrying a firearm, meaning outside of the home, not having one at home for home defense. Most of your criticism of his statements doesn't apply, Jibber.

[jibber]

I wasn't criticizing his statements. I was replying to them. Although, if I do say so myself, I don't know how one statement I made (that wasn't actually confirmed by tot what he was talking about) makes all of them not apply to what he was saying.

[Pali]

Yeah, sorry, bad phrasing. Bit intoxicated.

[Mindflayer]

People! We all play mud. We're not gun toting badarses.. jeez! We just pretend to be

[Sandbox]

And people that can't handle a gun shouldn't be able to get a hold of one so easily. But I guess they can' date=' since it's america. Sure knife disputes can get messy too, but they usually don't end up in corpses. More guns => more corpses. Jibber, you can't deny the fact that more less stable individuals will get a hold on a gun if they are easier to access.[/quote']

people dont commit crimes with legal registered guns. The only people who commit crimes with legit guns are kids because thats the only way they have access.

[Pali]

people dont commit crimes with legal registered guns.

Uh... actually, yes, they do.

[Elfrosto]

Gun crime is a huge problem in this country, and it doesn't seem to make a difference whether the gun is legit or scratched. I'm glad that my little incident could spark such an intriguing debate, I really am, but I would like to say a few things on my own behalf while I got a second.

Firstly, I do not deny that what I did was immature, and for the most, pointless. However, I would like to indicate a few factors. Firstly, I was with a group of friends comprised mostly of women, and I'm quite protective of my friends, especially girls. He hit a nerve, and it's my fault for having the issue, but he should've gone home.

Second, and I'm not trying to validate myself with any of this, but I was pretty smashed. My judgement wasn't at it's finest, and my temper was uncovered from the mud with all the vodka. He said whatever it was he said and I lost it.

And finally, I had Jesse with me. Jesse is my best friend/brother/work partner. He and I do bouncing, security, and professional martial arts competitions together, so even in my drunkenness, and anger, and over-protective hyperactivity, I was fine, because Jesse had my back.

Now, as far as the gun thing goes...

I live in Milwaukee, WI. Pali lived here, Elfdude, Mystic_ranger, and a few others if I'm not mistaken. And they can all tell you that parts of this city really suck. Right now, I live in one of the worse off parts of town, on the north-east side. When I say 'worse off' I mean my roommates and I don't leave the house alone after dark because we are the wrong color. Having dealt with this for a large portion of my life, living all around the 'ghetto' because it's cheaper, I've been exposed to gun violence, 'quick crimes', drugs, and all that you would expect. In keeping with my experiences I have learned who is more likely to be carrying a gun, or a knife and who is not. I.E. Dude on my black, walking down the street in a big heavy winter jacket, probably strapped. Drunkass college kid in a downtown bar? Not so much.

Guns are a problem here, I agree. I have friends that carry scratched pistols with them to the mall. But, carrying is only half the problem. You have people who carry for 'their safety' but have never fired a gun, you have people who don't understand the implications, and you have people who are just plain stupid.

Gun laws in America are stupid, and they are written for rich people, much the same as all of our laws.

[Lailanni]

Gun safety is a good idea. More gun control isn't.

I couldn't agree more. I now live in the heart of "redneckville". Wyoming. 90% of our population are hunters and own at least three guns per family member. And I'm not kidding when I say people drive around with their rifle mounted in the rear window of their truck still. Yet you never hear of crazy people in Wyoming shooting up schools or workplaces. This is because from the time a kid is able to pull the trigger on a bb gun, they are taught gun safety. I know at least a dozen families that won't even let their kids own play guns because guns are not toys. More gun laws wouldn't change anything in this country, except piss off a bunch of rednecks. Oh, and also, you don't have a lot of crime in Wyoming either... who wants to mess with someone who can shoot a bull elk from three hundred yards and wouldn't blink twice at shooting your arse and mounting you in his den?

[Nomak]

In my country the 14 years boys are carrying knife and guns.And the 14 years old girls drink more alcohol than anyone in this forum I am sure.

Here is one big ghetto.For more info check http://vbox7.com/play:81667f97&al=1&vid=

[Kyzarius]

I couldn't agree more. I now live in the heart of "redneckville". Wyoming. 90% of our population are hunters and own at least three guns per family member. And I'm not kidding when I say people drive around with their rifle mounted in the rear window of their truck still. Yet you never hear of crazy people in Wyoming shooting up schools or workplaces. This is because from the time a kid is able to pull the trigger on a bb gun' date=' they are taught gun safety. I know at least a dozen families that won't even let their kids own play guns because guns are not toys. More gun laws wouldn't change anything in this country, except piss off a bunch of rednecks. Oh, and also, you don't have a lot of crime in Wyoming either... who wants to mess with someone who can shoot a bull elk from three hundred yards and wouldn't blink twice at shooting your arse and mounting you in his den?[/quote']

an armed society is a polite society.

to also add its not just guns

http://www.newser.com/story/69468/johns-hopkins-student-kills-burglar-with-samurai-sword.html

[Mali]

If someone wants you dead, you'll be dead.

That is a very fatalistic point of view. I for one am an optimist and believe that someone wanting me dead is very different from actually being dead. There are several steps in between the thought and the deed. Each one of those steps can generally be prepared for and acted upon. It is inaction and this type of negative thinking that will give someone else the edge

Nekky, your gun carry scenario is incomplete. You stated that if someone has a gun pointed at you, then you should simply give them what they want and carry on. That is simply the worst advice to give someone. In your scenario, by responding with force they either shoot you and you are dead, or they run and you shoot them in the back. Much like the other poster, this is a fatalistic view that lacks serious consideration of the problem.

First of all, compliance with an armed criminal should never, never ever, be advised. What lacks in your example is the capacity of the shooter to have darker intentions than just wanting your wallet. Similarly, in your example the capacity of the shooter to miss is not accounted for.

If someone draws a gun on you and wants you to come in the alley, get in the car, or bring them your wallet or purse, then what they are doing is trying to get closer to you. At that point, it is very unlikely they will miss. Anyone confronting an armed stranger should run away in a zig zag line. Generally they will not shoot you at this point, and if they do they will probably miss. Shooting a moving target is no cakewalk. Even if they do hit you, the chance of that incapacitating you is also very low.

Similarly, if someone is already in your close range and has a weapon drawn on you, you should fight back until you can increase your distance once more.

Whatever you do, do not simply comply. Do not go into the alley. Do not get into the car. Do not get closer to them. Remove yourself from the situation, or use force to end the threat.

[Kyzarius]

First of all, compliance with an armed criminal should never, never ever, be advised.

this statement alone is the complete opposite of the advice and instruction that every single law enforcement agency in the US gives in regards to being assaulted.

Most, mind you MOST, murders are either crimes of passion OR robbberies where the victim is non-compliant forcing the assailant to respond with force.

The majority of robberies where an assailant robs an individual or invades a home are the result of desperation. These people typically have resorted to crime as a last resort to solve some problem in their life and most often do not really wish to harm the individual.

Calmly complying with demands, and maintaning an attitude of saftey, while espoussing that you just wish nobody (even the assailant) to get hurt during a robbery is the safest strategy there is. This is also what any law enforcement agency will reccomend to their citizens.

[Mali]

this statement alone is the complete opposite of the advice and instruction that every single law enforcement agency in the US gives in regards to being assaulted.

I'm gonna have to call BS here. What I advised is exactly what the law enforcement agencies here teach during self defense classes for women.

[Kyzarius]

I'm gonna have to call BS here. What I advised is exactly what the law enforcement agencies here teach during self defense classes for women.

maybe this is the answer if they are trying to rape you, or if someone is trying to force you to do something at knife point.

But im sorry, if a perosn has a gun on you and is trying to rob you, best course of action is complience. Heroes who try to disarm guns more ofte than not end up dead. Occasioannly you hear about someone wrrestling a gun away and turning it on the assailant...but more often you see them on the news as another crime statistic.

[Mali]

Yes, what I am referring to is potential rape victims. In a business setting, don't try to be the hero. In a home invasion setting, complying and letting someone tie you up or corner you is not smart at all. Most rapists or murderers won't tell you their intention until your ability to react has been neutralized.

Case in point: Dennis Rader. Modus Operandi: Confronted them at gunpoint, told them he just wanted to tie them up. Once they were tied up, everything changed.

http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/btktranscript.htm

I think we can agree the best thing to do is flee. If fleeing is not possible, fight. Lieing down and giving ultimate power to the enemy may be the last thing you ever do.

[H&R]

There is a big difference between murder/rape and just robbery Mali. If you are facing an armed thief, you give him what he wants and then let the police handle it.

I am so glad I don't live in a country where every single criminal carries a gun.