Gaddfrey

[jibber]

Being that I've played every path, and only two paths successfully, I really can't say there's much wrong with berserkers. I had a really big problem with FURY path (the last path I tried, for the first time) with the whole Powergrip/weaponcleave/shieldcleave build. Considering now that everyone is walking around with burnproof weapons and shields (be it those 3 or 4 sockets that make things burnproof or cabal services) both those skills were made useless. I even had cabal skills to help me out and I got reaaammeedd.

I have HUGE respect for Gaddfrey. I'm not sure how much the avatar skills/spells helped you out and what avatar does for you in the long run, but going fury means you have steel balls. I'll NEVER got fury again.

Anger/Devastation.. I did very well with. I've had some lame *** deaths but I've had some epic wins too. Forget fury.

[Mindflayer]

I agree. Fury isn't all that great in my opinion. Gorbak was the only berserker I saw do anything exciting with it. (Other than Gaddfrey of course!)

[Evangelion]

Jibber, you just gave me a thought as to the change that the Fury path could use...

Make it so that a powergripped weapon cleave/shield cleave has a chance to destroy burnproof weapons/shields.

Also, that could apply to warriors, too - make it so that a powergripped disarm has a chance to knock disarm noremove weapons/shields.

[Mindflayer]

A lovely suggestion E... let's build on it. Instead of destroying a burnproofed weapon completely.. why not make it like a bad weapon enchant? Each chip the fury berserker puts into the weapon might lower the weapon's average 2-4% or perhaps remove some of its hr/dr?

[f0xx]

A lovely suggestion E... let's build on it. Instead of destroying a burnproofed weapon completely..

Why not do a disarm + 2 round lag?

Something like ironarm disarm but a bit stronger.

I really don't like the idea of something that is undestructable being destroyed.

[jibber]

So and so swings his weapon EXTREMELY hard, slamming it against your weapon!

So and so knocks you several feet back, stunning you!

You feel your weapon chip and crack.

Like the -hr/-dr. Not lowering avg, though.

[Mindflayer]

Perhaps put some lag on it

[L-A]

Having had several berserkers myself I can say that the ease of which 'indestructible' is given via a cabal hurts the class a lot. I could easily deal with sockets or weapons that carry this characteristic - mostly because there is a restriction placed on the player. However, when anything can be made immune then its simply a matter of how long a player holds out and gets the perfect suit. At the very least it should be VERY expensive and last perhaps 10 - 24 ticks.

I notice you can't do the same with 'cursed' on weapons via cabal abilities. Why is that?

I have played all paths - I didn't have an issue with fury but I play a more defensive berserker than most so I'm probably getting more out of the defensive and upped damage than others.

Anger wasn't bad - but it certainly wasn't the 'I win' button vs communers that you'd believe reading about it. You need a good knowledge of the class and a decent dose of skill to get the most out of it.

I alwasy swore that devastation was a worthless path (and to start with it was). However, changes have made it a decent way to go - again, you need to understand some tricks of the class to be able to do well. Although there are inherent flaws in it, if you consider in a 'pure' PK situation its certainly viable.

To be honest, if you stack your advantages and reduce your disadvantages you can do well against most things. Mostly you need to understand why you're losing and stop doing what it causing you to lose. The class seems very 'situational' - and you have to be very controlling of the situation to do well in several matchups. Of course, there are the matchups that you win for 'free' - rogues, invokers, psi's - you might argue this is a balance. I think this turns a lot of people off - a warrior (to take another melee example) can 'break even' vs almost any class, very few bad matchups. Zerks have more 'good/great' matchups but several more 'very, very bad' matchups as well.

With rares numbers now fixed I think zerks gain power - the rage hit/dam bonus means you can get more save without giving up hit/dam or get extra hit/dam without eq. You won't be a true match for people in god suits (at least not melee's) but you can certainly roll with a lot of people after a full loot with only what you have in a well stocked locker.

L-A

PS - zerks can destroy your weapons. Giving them 'disarm' is probably too much. Aside from using the stupid cabal method there are very, very few ways to get a indestructible and cursed weapons - which is exactly how it should be.

[samag08]

I have always thought as an advantage to the fury path, powergripped zerks should knock burnproof/burnproofed and cursed weapons or shields into inventory. Not a true disarm and not destroying it. Timed with dirt it could work very well but timed wrong they can just wield it again.

[jibber]

As far as Fury being a more defensive path, I don't necessarily agree with. While it's cool to have powergrip and have two-handed staffs/polearms be disarmed into inventory instead of to the ground, the notion in the helpfile saying you'd be more defensive is a white lie at best.

I've done numerous tests with my last one (more specifically against another path, which may have been bias). A devastation zerk wielding a fire lance is 20* more defensive than a fury zerk. Hands down. A zerk wielding anything fire that is two handed is more defensive -- and that shouldn't be the case.

As far as me being defensive against warriors .. well, I got lucky sometimes. I got reamed a lot, and definitely should have defended like a pugiling staff warrior (IMHO) but seemed to do worse than my anger and devastation zerks (fire and demon respectively).

Anyway.. fury zerks prolly could use something.

[jibber]

And to add onto that, I only really consistently beat down one class. Blademasters. But even then sometimes I had a horrible time with them and only ONE WM skill saved me a lot of the time. I'd go as far as to way all of my kills were due to ONE WM skill (which was avoidable, widely avoidable) and that definitely shouldn't determine how well I do on a berserker.

So as I said before.. Anger.. and Devastation, hell yeah. If you're going a smaller race, MAYBE, MAYBE! (werebeasts/humans) you should go fury. Not tested yet.

[L-A]

As far as Fury being a more defensive path, I don't necessarily agree with. While it's cool to have powergrip and have two-handed staffs/polearms be disarmed into inventory instead of to the ground, the notion in the helpfile saying you'd be more defensive is a white lie at best.

I've done numerous tests with my last one (more specifically against another path, which may have been bias). A devastation zerk wielding a fire lance is 20* more defensive than a fury zerk. Hands down. A zerk wielding anything fire that is two handed is more defensive -- and that shouldn't be the case.

As far as me being defensive against warriors .. well, I got lucky sometimes. I got reamed a lot, and definitely should have defended like a pugiling staff warrior (IMHO) but seemed to do worse than my anger and devastation zerks (fire and demon respectively).

Anyway.. fury zerks prolly could use something.

With path of fury I did find it slightly easier vs bmages than I have on other zerks though. The only reason I actually worked out it was a little better was my future zerks did worse in same case scenario's.

In the tests you did - you mention the fire lance. Was the other zerk a fg? That would screw it up royally, even just a giant with extra 2h prof (were you a giant? - my path of fury was) would start to degrade it due to the high prof in play.

The major advantage I found was anything was cleaved first time everytime - and I never trained the skill. I think I had 78% weapon cleave and 75% sheild cleave on the Path of Fury and if it wasn't burnproof then you lost it. These is also some extra damage from powergrip and not losing your weapons is abosolutely priceless at times.

I don't see the path's as giving huge benefits anyway. Just minor tone ups here and there. I believe I could not choose a path and battles would be about the same.

L-A

[The-Nameless]

From my experience, and based on path bonuses, a dev GIANT zerk wielding a polearm while raged is wickedly WICKEDLY defensive. I fought Heuajru as Krusk, and when I raged I have logs of me defending 2-4 rounds of attacks while raged. The defense I had with a fire lance was just unreal.