That thin line between IC and OOC

[tassinvegeta]

Why not suggest some things that can be built into the code to encourage this way of thinking nameless? Like ogre speech or illithid telepathy already is. I'd like to see zombies with some type of 'artificial' second to life to simulate rising from the dead. I'd like to see undead ghosts being able to pass through walls. I'd like to see the flames back on fire's bashes, storms with water bashes, perhaps automatic changes of I's to Me's on giants.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Why not suggest some things that can be built into the code to encourage this way of thinking nameless? Like ogre speech or illithid telepathy already is. I'd like to see zombies with some type of 'artificial' second to life to simulate rising from the dead. I'd like to see undead ghosts being able to pass through walls. I'd like to see the flames back on fire's bashes' date=' storms with water bashes, perhaps automatic changes of I's to Me's on giants.[/quote']

ROFL! DUDE! I already suggested it. So much for reading.

[The-Nameless]

Back on topic...

Another good point I have neglected up until this point is one of the most ongoing collectives in FL. The Racial History Project. The imms have gone to alot of trouble, over a long time to make that. Not to mention the time some of the dedicated players here have spent making those racial histories. Those where requested AND IMPLEMENTED for a reason. TO consider that, then just say oh well forget it I wanna do it this way anyway is really just selfish. I am trying hard not to throw anyone under the bus so I will approach this differently. To the people who are standing opposite me in this debate, I have a challenge for you. List a few characters you have had, and why you selected the race. Please be honest about it, as I will.

I will choose 2 characters.

Thrug

Fire giant Flail mastery Reaver.

I wanted to RP a real brute. Someone who acted before thinking, because his muscles where ten times his brains. This is going to be a fire giant, or an ogre. Here I will tell you I chose fire giant because 90% of all warriors are ogres, and I wanted to go against the norm. Now determining religion I see a fire giant as very uncaring, and quite aggressive. Wanting to cause pain, and terror wherever he went. This lead to scourge. Now for subcabal Help Reaver more than identified Thrug as far as their RP. So I had the basis for my character. I chose flail mastery because? It just seemed so mean in my head. What do you think is scarier than a huge fire giant rushing at you dual wielding rusted chains with jagged spiked balls at the end. In truth I knw whip mastery would have been stronger, but it was not how I envisioned the character. Throughout his life I tried very hard to maintain himself as someone who was dedicated 100% to the slaughter. Allies did not exist because I chose they did not exist, I just did not see how Thrug would want friends. I had as many enemies in my cabal as I did out. I tried to Coup imseik, missed by a bash. I did coup a cleric, I also couped an elder reaver, after failing to coup an elder pandy. I also had an attempted? coup (one shield throw missed, and we never fought again) from a fellow reaver. I played this character 100% balls out. I will never regret it or think I should have done other things. I accomplished what I wanted with Thrug. I got my first elder, and had a fair pk record.

Drakken, restrung gnome invoker (Gith) Psi wannabe

Drakken was rped as a stranded planes traveler. He had a large amount of psionic powers when he came, and that is why he came to Aabahran, he sensed the psionic energy. Upon coming here he realized that the psinic energy here is strictly guarded by the Mind's Eye. He lost all powers and became stranded. As he grew as an invoker, he learned to focus his power (mana charge). Now the RP began to get stale, as there where 3 other people all after psi, and I was just on the recieving end of alot that annoyed me. So what I did was log on to RP, lead trips, get random crap for people, and log off. Very few people seemed to care about my rp enough to inquire. I really disagree with seeing a restring and not going WTF ARE YOU!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?. After all if you saw a Liger you would look at it and go holy **** wtf is that. Drakken's goal was to get enough power to leave Aabahran. Now as I leveled I realized that I was just not strong enough with my reasoning to get a psi, so instead of dumping hours into something I was already bored with, I rped my "departure" with Velariel. I said I would be overloading my focus (mana charged item) and using the flare to ride back into limbo. I did the rp, Velariel was a great asset in it. I went out with what I feel was grace, instead of letting a powerful pk char, I love invokers for PK, degenerate to only pk. I let the char return to limbo.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Mid-2008

Avarix Clemencia

Tiefling (restrung gnome) invoker psi applicant.

Pretty much the same thing as Drakken. Deleted due to losing internet. Thoroughly enjoyed my time as the Traveler from Sigil who just wanted to return to her own world.

Early 2.0

Scrog Qotoin. Ogre Ranger.

An evil ranger who dwelled his entire life in the Witch Wood, learning that Nature has its own laws: Survival of the Fittest. When he emerged from the Wood, he travelled. Was around the same time as Gomanhor tried merging the Ogres. Scrog saw it as weakness and was outspoken against it, wanting nothing more than to share his pain with others. Joined Syndicate because he had no friends and wanted none. To be alone was the only true way to not suffer. But it had to be spread. He wasn't smart, but incredibly primal.

These two are probably the furthest apart examples of RP I have.

However, the Racial Projects, were originally requested because there was little cultural background on things like storm giants, avians, slith, etc...these lesser known races were difficult for new players and even some veterans. I've stayed away from giants because I don't like making descriptions for them. I can look them up all day on the internet. Everyone has a different take and now FL is solidifying its take on its races.

Putting forth the work of the racial profiles is not fair. Not everyone should have to mold to that. That might be the norm, but we have all been made to understand being part of a guild is not the norm, so, why should we have to believe that our characters have to be the norm of the racial profile? So we change one teeny tiny aspect here and there.

We have religion, ethos, align.....so many things that shape these characters that what is widely accepted for the COMMON folk of that race may not always apply to those of us in guilds.

[Elfrosto]

I write my descriptions and think of my RP before I start playing the character, which has a profound impact on how my characters end up.

Draloen: Matis(Restrung Feral)

Born a jaguar in the E'gal, his pride killed a tribe of ferals, and in revenge the shaman of the village bound the souls of the dead to them, thus, bringing the Matis. (On a side note, Matis is actually the name of a tribe that worshipped the jaguar. That's some research for ya.) The rest of his pack died off from the curse, but Draloen survived, and left a changed being to find his place in the world.

I picked feral, because, well, I like ferals. But, I also chose them because it was the closest fit for my restring, I thought.

Mid-end of 2.0 I had:

Teronim Human shaman Royal of Miruvhor

Teronim was a noble, snotty arrogant little prick that didn't care what ANYONE thought and was only out to make a better place for himself. Actually, he was Royal the same time Galvatar was, so I was quite clearly and obviously outshone. (Galvatar was awesome). He had no respect for anyone, I even remember being a snob to IMMs.

I chose human, because Mir, Val and Rhey are all human cities, so it makes sense that a human would be the nobility. I also chose human for the exp penalties.

This is the sort of conversation that gets our brains going, maybe it will help someone come up with some great RP for themselves, I say everyone should pick two characters, not just people who disagree.

[Sandbox]

Someone got his evil killed by a goodie halfling it seems...

You know what, if you don't want goodies after you, then roll neutral ffs and stop whining...

You actively seek to PK everyone out there in your range and then you complain that a goodie kills your evil.

Jeez.

It is really starting to get old for you to moan every time you get killed.

Playing an evil allows you to be aggressive, but has consequences ( lots of enemies). When people roll nothing but chaotic goods and run around like damn zealots all their doing is RP'ing an evil with more allies. Its pathetic. I want to play a zealot halfling!! no.. you want to play an ooc stat powerhouse zealot and halfling had the stats for the class you wanted to play. It doesn't bother you that a goodie halfling would run up on someone they've never met, know they are evil (somehow), slay them, and walk away not saying a word? because it should. It's completely impractical and inherently evil. If i tried some crap like that I'd be on death row right now.

[KRins]

Playing an evil allows you to be aggressive' date=' but has consequences ( lots of enemies). When people roll nothing but chaotic goods and run around like damn zealots all their doing is RP'ing an evil with more allies. Its pathetic. I want to play a zealot halfling!! no.. you want to play an ooc stat powerhouse zealot and halfling had the stats for the class you wanted to play. It doesn't bother you that a goodie halfling would run up on someone they've never met, know they are evil (somehow), slay them, and walk away not saying a word? because it should. It's completely impractical and inherently evil. If i tried some crap like that I'd be on death row right now.[/quote']

Considerably different time...the closest you could compare FL to as far as a time period would be like...the Dark Ages. Yeah there was law...as long as you could still see the sheriff. Same concept. There is nothing stale about RPing a goodie zealot, considering it is very rarely done with any version of depth, with the exception that next to no one does a goodie outside of that mold. Do you think Navy SEALs stop and have a conversation with Mr. Terrorist X? They shuffle him off this mortal coil and have a laugh about it over a beer later. Now, I consider the US Navy good since I'm from the US...but insert your favorite national standing army and you basically come to the same thing. Good does not imply pattie cake. I consider myself generally good, I donate to the homeless and volunteer at a soup kitchen. I would also curb stomp someone who attacked my family physically, financially, emotionally, or any other version of "ly" without a second thought. Good is not being everything that your religious book says you should be...it is trying to do what is best without crawling up the corpses of the innocent to get there. How you go about doing that is what makes your RP yours.

That said, the severe lack of depth in some of the RP and the "but I do have a reason...I ummmm....hold on...I'll figure it out" defenses of RP are rampant and ridiculous, which is why I've always suggested a short character bio in addition to a description. You can't truly be RP-enforced when there is no previous RP to compare it to. Yeah yeah, past interactions...I've personally spent a hundred + hours on a char never once hearing from my personal IMM or the IMM of my cabal. That does not give even the slightest bit of past interaction to use when RP enforcement is brought up, despite the protests of those on high.

[Celerity]

Alright, I lost my post, so here we go again.

Language and intelligence have no correlation. NO native speaker, even mentally retarded ones, would ever mess up their be verbs. If you have the intelligence to speak you have the intelligence for language. The reason most of you think 'stupid' people mess up their words is because we associate certain dialects with intelligence, class and so on. Being a British RP native speaker doesn't mean you are high class, rich, or educated. It means you grew up and speak like people who are more likely to be so.

There is no correlation between long words and intelligence. Japanese babies use words that are twice as long as English ones all the time. That is just how their language works. They store grammatical and social information in the verb itself (just like English but to a greater degree). That doesn't make them smarter than anyone else. Using rare or archaic words means you studied them (hinting at a higher education) but even that has nothing to do with intelligence.

If you have enough intelligence to speak, you have the capacity for a complete language---the full grammar and vocabulary.

As for Behren's 'essay' on intelligence...I really hate it. Not only because it is flaming me directly, but because he is plain wrong. I wrote an essay on this a long time ago, but of course he didn't post it. What is the average intelligence in Aabahran? Is it 8? Is it 20? Are our chars superhumans or are they merely average? Even that isn't clear.

What is the difference between a 15 and 20 intelligence? It is expotential? It is it linear? 15 intelligence is obviously intelligent enough to understand abstract things like religion, tactics, and so forth. They certainly would have the capacity for normal language. If 8 is the average intelligence, these fire giants are all likely smarter than you and me.

Personally, I see the difference between 15, 20, and 25 intelligence as very small--measured by how it is in the game, by learning speed. An elf can learn something faster than a giant, but after that learning is done, they are on even ground and we go off into the RP of the wisdom stat to apply it. Giants might not be doing intense calculations and developing masterplans (or maybe they are---those are just skills), but they definitely know how to survive (despite thousands of years of wars against intellectually superior opponents).

[f0xx]

Playing an evil allows you to be aggressive' date=' but has consequences ( lots of enemies).[/quote']

No, playing an evil allows you to be agressive towards anyone. Playing a good allows to be agressive only against evils. If you are an avatar it goes even further and it almost forbids you to hunt neutrals as well.

When people roll nothing but chaotic goods and run around like damn zealots

How do you know that the person in question rolls nothing but chaotic good zealots? Again, you are asuming, please stop that.

all their doing is RP'ing an evil with more allies.

No, actually they are RPing an evil with more restrictions on who they can kill. Much more. Damn man, if playing a good is the same as playing an evil, why do you keep rolling evil characters? Roll a good one ffs if it is so much easier.

Recently a good character of mine was called "a coward" by an evil character of yours for avoiding you. Minutes later you died to another good character for which you are posting this now.

So, lets sumarize. If a good character hunts you and kills you, this is bad because goodies shouldn't hunt evils just like that. But then, if a good character tries to avoid you, this is bad again because he doesn't want to fight you and therefore is a coward?

If you don't want to get killed, don't play a game that allows people to kill you. The pattern is quite clear, when you die, it is always something else that is responsible for your death, and it is never you. Be it OP combos, OOC connections, OOC goods, lowbies looking at you... there is always someone who is responsible for your death, and that someone is never you!

You are a grown up man, please take a responsibily for your actions. If you roll an evil you should expect everyone to be after you. If you roll a good, you should expect everyone expect goods to be after you.

Also, before judging someone's RP you should first take a look at your own.

[Aulian]

depends on the halfling and their RP.

I dont believe it is fair to try and trump the individuality of a character based on stereotypes.

the cross-char advice thing, man I HATE that. I hate when people try and give "unsolicited" advice on a class they currently arent playing. Why would the BLM want tips from an invoker? The invoker wouldnt know these secrets.

Yup, just check out Dumela

[Aulian]

Also that being said, to say all humans are alike is completely stupid.

Comparing the Macedonians to the Athenians would be a prime example.

Or the tribal people in places like Africa compared to any 1st world society.

What behavior is to be perceived as innately "human"? I dare say that around the world those would differ.

[Imoutgoodbye]

As for Behren's 'essay' on intelligence...I really hate it. Not only because it is flaming me directly, but because he is plain wrong. I wrote an essay on this a long time ago, but of course he didn't post it.

emote makes hissing and spitting noises, swiping his hands like claws in the air.

say "meow".

[Nekky]

And it was kind of, just a little bit, a launch platform to tout his own intelligence. Kind of ...

But back on topic.

I would never be the one to say we should curtail the possibilities of RP, because more possibilities makes for more variation and an overall more interesting experience.

That being said, I do think that there is a tendency among many players to make characters that deliberately get close to the edge in order to benefit from race/class/skill combinations that may be questionable in RP terms. People make Sigils that find RP reasons to be every bit as aggressive as Praetorians. People roll healers that attempt to design RP allowing them to be aggressive PKers. When Martineius was still alive, everyone was so damned scared of him that people who should have been sworn to kill him figured out RP ways to not have to. And as I said earlier in this thread, it seems to be the norm rather than the exception that people are making characters that do not conform to that race's usual RP for various reasons.

So in this sense I suppose I am agreeing with The-Nameless and Sandbox school of thought.

But I also think that people are never at their most receptive for RP when they are frustrated by either being unable to find/kill someone, or even more so, when they have just died to someone. This fact was struck home to me years ago when I was playing a DK. I tried to start some pre-PK RP with someone that I was planning to attack. Their response was basically "Whatever, trash. Just attack me and get it over with." That's before any blows were even exchanged. I had far less success trying to RP with people I'd already attacked or killed. If you have just killed someone, MOST people are going to assume that any RP you try to engage in is going to be some lame attempt to justify your lust for mass-PK and nothing more. Numerous posts in this thread by Sandbox and others have demonstrated that this is a common attitude.

So, I guess here I am agreeing with the f0xx school of thought. Don't die of shock.

The overall message I think is this:

RP your characters with proper integrity, don't always let PK or OOC desires for gear, revenge or whatever influence you. Not all your characters have to be on the fringe, whacky, or freaks by their race's standards. Some of the best RP I have had is with Kaylia, who just plays a kick-arse regular drow. RP does not always have to be crazy, original and shocking. Often the simplest RP is the best, if it's done well.

And to the 'other side'.

If you assume all RP you encounter is going to be crap, all RP you encounter is going to be crap. Swallow your pride and/or frustration and you might be surprised that someone has some genuine and interesting RP to share with you. Dying might be frustrating, but I can say from experience that being dismissed as 'trash' or 'just making it up as you go along to justify mass-PK' can be equally destructive to a character. A lot of people are putting in effort, give them a chance.

-N

[Imoutgoodbye]

Amen, Brother Nekky, Amen.

[f0xx]

Nice post Nekky.

The biggest problem here, is that people always have second thoughts. We all do. It is human nature. In RL, you hear a rumour about a person you don't know, which might not be true, when you meet that person you will always have one thing in mind, even though you get numerous prooves that the rumour is not correct. Sometimes one might even refuse to get to know someone just because of rumours/"friendly advices".

It's the same in FL, although most of these stereotypes are self created.

If a goodie starts some RP with an evil, 99% of the time the evil will either attack the goodie, hide in a hole or quit because he thinks that this is pre-PK RP.

If a goodie starts some RP after the kill, as Nekky said, the evil will think that this is simply some RP that tries to justify the kill.

If the goodie doesn't do any RP before or after the kill, he will be blamed that goods can't just run around attacking evils with no RP behind to justify the kill.

If the good doesn't want to fight he will be called coward.

In the end we have a situation where WHATEVER the goodie will do, you will not be happy, unless he simply rolls over and dies. And this scenario can by applied for whatever class/ethos/align/cabal/race combo.

Not just that, but I find it most annoying that those who pretend to have the highest morals on the forums (RP wise), are the worst type of players in game. Its like they are trying to persuade themselves.

I've never seen Icor/Dey brag about their RP. Hell I've never even seen Tassin/Mindflayer/Jibber/H&R brag about their RP and how good it was. Yet I am seeing numerous people blaming others that their characters are OOC, when ingame their own characters' RP ain't that good.

In the end, I have two advices:

1. Let others judge your own RP i.e. don't brag how good it is.

2. Do not judge others' RP unless of course you like it.

Just because I've been refused a ClockworkGoblin restring with the reason goblins aren't intelligent enough to make one doesn't mean someone else can't RP his goblin into savant and PSI, no matter how strange it might seem

Yeah Kendriks, you bugger, I am talking about you

[Sandbox]

No' date=' playing an evil allows you to be agressive towards anyone. Playing a good allows to be agressive [b']only against evils. If you are an avatar it goes even further and it almost forbids you to hunt neutrals as well.

How do you know that the person in question rolls nothing but chaotic good zealots? Again, you are asuming, please stop that.

No, actually they are RPing an evil with more restrictions on who they can kill. Much more. Damn man, if playing a good is the same as playing an evil, why do you keep rolling evil characters? Roll a good one ffs if it is so much easier.

Recently a good character of mine was called "a coward" by an evil character of yours for avoiding you. Minutes later you died to another good character for which you are posting this now.

So, lets sumarize. If a good character hunts you and kills you, this is bad because goodies shouldn't hunt evils just like that. But then, if a good character tries to avoid you, this is bad again because he doesn't want to fight you and therefore is a coward?

If you don't want to get killed, don't play a game that allows people to kill you. The pattern is quite clear, when you die, it is always something else that is responsible for your death, and it is never you. Be it OP combos, OOC connections, OOC goods, lowbies looking at you... there is always someone who is responsible for your death, and that someone is never you!

You are a grown up man, please take a responsibily for your actions. If you roll an evil you should expect everyone to be after you. If you roll a good, you should expect everyone expect goods to be after you.

Also, before judging someone's RP you should first take a look at your own.

you were called a coward because you stood in a forest in the exact same spot for two hours, if I'm looking to become a warmaster and I see someone hiding in a bush for several "days" in game what do you expect me to say? My character found that kinda pathetic.

LOL, this is how it played out.. your in the forest, im in the tree gatherin herb and notice you... neither one of us can harm eachother because we cant draw eachother out so i try to draw you out with words. Halfling zealot thief shows up out of no where, logs in.. comes STRAIGHT after me, kills me takes half my gear and leaves saying nothing at all. Bravo. What did you expect me to jump for joy?

[the_nightmare]

And what do you expect?Every light walker to run around and hop like a harmless bunny?

[Sandbox]

And what do you expect?Every light walker to run around and hop like a harmless bunny?

there are plenty of ways to be a good without bieng a vampire hunter. Help people around you understand the world they live in, help people out of harmful situations where they are stuck like a firefighter, teach people things about their classes like an educator, there is a lot of potential there to impact the game in a way other than "hey my name is Buffy, I'm a vampire slayer."

Evils are the same way not every evils has to be an axe murderer. On my current evil i have killed two people 1 of which was a bit of an accident because i drug the fight out longer than i wanted.(I've been in a TON of fights, upwards of 30) I've terrorized a lot of people, I've thrown around my physical prowess and bullied a few.I've stolen items to hide them somewhere else in the city and made the person go find their stuff. I've also taught people things in exchange for items or services, because an evil would not just give out things for free. ( just a few examples)

I find it odd that I can play an evil who doesnt go around killling everyone, but someone cant play a good with more depth than that.

[Celerity]

Here is my old post about intelligence from Jan. 30th, 2007 in response to Behren's crappy essay. I just reread it and I think I really am still offended by it. His arguments are very weak and his examples of course offend me, and with the religious examples he might offend many other people as well. I hate to ask this, but any chance of getting it taken down or edited?

Please take a few minutes and read my thoughts.

http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=8298

I found that I didn’t fully agree with Behrens’ essay on stats. I’d like to present an alternative argument based on stats drawn from the game itself.

8 str: Weight: 142

9 str: Weight: 142

10 str: Weight: 142

11 str: Weight: 142

12 str: Weight: 142

13 str: Weight: 142

14 str: Weight: 142

15 str: Weight: 152

16 str: Weight: 167

17 str: Weight: 182

18 str: Weight: 202

19 str: Weight: 227

20 str: Weight: 252

21 str: Weight: 302

22 str: Weight: 352

23 str: Weight: 402

24 str: Weight: 452

25 str: Weight: 502

There are a few ways to derive the average strength (in regards to all races, not just any individual race). One, assuming an even dispersal, would be to get the simple mean. If this was the case, the average would 232.5. This falls somewhere between 19 and 20 str. Unfortunately, there is not an even dispersal of str throughout all the races of the game, much less an even dispersal of populations of those races within the game world. Moreover, since these stats reflect the heroes and “elite PCs” of the game, they are likely inflated far above the average.

By looking at the point in which the rate of increase goes beyond zero, we can see where str becomes relevant to the PC, with each interval having an increase after 14. 8 str to 14 str is the average “range” of str. This also means that FL does hold fairly close to the DnD average of 9. There are differences in those stats concerning hit/dam up to 14, but the pattern and lack of the representation of change would suggest that the differences between each interval are insignificant, especially to the PCs (who are not average in any way). Lower than 8 str is not represented because it would not apply to the game world PC chars, who are elite in every way. There does not exist a PC in FL with lower than average str. There DO exist PCs with lower than average str when compared against the other PCs (as represented by the simple mean).

With establishing the base logic of 8-14 being the average range of the str stat, we can apply that that to the int stat as well. This means that even the PC fire giant is smarter than the average range of int throughout the entire FL world. This is why Behrens really is dumber than a fire giant! (just kidding!)

What does this mean for the average player? It justifies ‘smart’ giants (compared to the –average- not to the –elites-), yet also shows the large gap between those giants and their faerie counterparts. An elite human is roughly twice as strong as an average person in the world. An elite giant is roughly three times as strong.

Now, let’s assume all of this is wrong. Let’s say that 25 is the top int and 8 is the lowest in the world. The average is put at 20. With 15 int, a giant is far above the standard needed for fluent speech. Only the MOST challenged people cannot learn their first language completely fluently. In this case, that would be people with an 8 or 9 int. This also justifies giants being able to speak just well as any human.

Alternatively, if we put the elite human at 20 int (as in the first essay), this further justifies that giants should be able to speak well. The average human would be at least a few points below that (16-18?), and with the giants also at the decreased range of (11-13 int) they would be still far above the decreased minimal int needed for speech.

This is further shown by how ogres have slurred speech, while the more stupid giants do not. This shows how it seems to be a physical (relating to the formation of the vocal producing parts of the body—the tongue in particular) or dialectical issue. In the case of ogres, it seems to be a physical issue, as it is the pronunciation that is different, not the grammar used.

Many people in FL play giants with a dialect. They do this because they think that giants are too stupid to speak well, and so they make their PC speak with a stigmatized dialect. This is not correct. For example, somebody might play a giant and say something like this:

“Mer wannas goes ta the eatin placies.”

This is just as good as any language cognitively. They understand the word order, formation of the sentence, and correct choice of words. This is a matter of dialect and ‘common’ pronounciation, not intelligence. Moreover, it is a matter of stereotyping and stigmaticism because of the particular words and sounds that are chosen. We tend to think of people who say “Mer wanna” as being more stupid than a person who says “I would like to…” Language is totally arbitrary. There is nothing that says that concept is best said by that particular set of sounds. What it DOES show is that person has not conformed to standards of acceptable education or a prescriptive way of speaking. This has –nothing- to do with intelligence. If it had been a matter of intelligence, the same phrase might have looked like these:

“Et.” or “Waaaaaaaaah!” or “…”

So, we’ve shown that giants speak different as a matter of dialect and not intelligence. A lot of people play ogres with both the physical and dialectical issues. Giants tend to have the dialect problem. This is fine, as a giant may very well come from an area with that sort of dialect. Then again, an elf is just as likely. The problem lies in that ONLY the -stupid- races are being played with a dialect. This shows that people seem to associate it with a lack of intelligence, rather than a matter of a lack of social association with the standard dialect of “common”, also known as English in this case.

The people with the heaviest accents would be those furthest from the main cities (of which all three would have widely different accents, if not languages, in a RL setting)---demons, druids, werebeasts, feral, illithid, and the like. Not too many people play them with accents.

By associating a dialect with a lack of intelligence (giants), it is reinforcing a real-life stereotype that people (from different regions or even countries) who do not speak like you (or speak with a certain dialect you arbitrarily deem as “stupid”) are more stupid than you.

Summary:

Giants can speak as well as any other race. Giants far surpass the minimal intelligence (as shown by at least one example of the code in the game) needed to speak fluently. Giants are being played as speaking a dialect, with the thought that it is due to their low intelligence. Dialects are not based on intelligence. Almost exclusively, only low int races are played with a dialect. This is a social stereotype, which stigmatizes RL groups of people based on the words chosen.

[f0xx]

you were called a coward because you stood in a forest in the exact same spot for two hours' date=' if I'm looking to become a warmaster and I see someone hiding in a bush for several "days" in game what do you expect me to say? My character found that kinda pathetic.[/quote']

Well, I found it kinda pathetic that you expect me to simply come in town where you can hide, blackjack, steal, pry and do whatever you want with me

It is true most of those things you can do in the forest too, but that involves a certain risk, which you obviously weren't ready to take, and since things wouldn't turn out the way you want them (i.e. me walking into the town) you decide to moan and groan as usual (i.e. calling me a coward, thinking this would make me want to kill you and take some risk). You keep repeating how every goodie is a bloodlusty zealot, and there you had one who DIDN'T want to fight you, and you called him a coward. Bravo to you.

LOL' date=' this is how it played out..[/quote']

I know how it played out, and the way you present it is not exactly how things went. I won't argue, you can PM me about it if you wish so we can discuss it.

What did you expect me to jump for joy?

Well, since you asked me straight, I will give a straight honest answer. Since I am perhaps the person that knows your virtual persona best, I expected you to come to the forums and moan about it, in one form or another. And surprise, that is exactly what you did. I am serious about it, you took a death about which I know ALL the details (how you tried to provoke me into fighting you, why the other person attacked you and what happened to him after you left), so I was curious to see what are you gonna complain about this time, since it was an absolutely legit and in character PK.

I even doubt there is any point in me posting since you are acting like a first grade child that is angry at his teacher. I just find it VERY surprising that you are complaining that someone killed and looted you, when you on the other hand are actively seeking to PK/steal from everyone in your range.

[Sandbox]

I even doubt there is any point in me posting since you are acting like a first grade child that is angry at his teacher.

First of all stop with the personal attacks. Challenging the fact that the vast majority of characters i face are silent pkers with "ogre smash" complexes does not make me a child. Maybe i just have higher expectations than a huge kill ratio, which is something you could probably work on yourself. I've noticed you play mostly power combo's and when I made this character your scorned me because i didn't pick slith which was the obvious power combo. I could go into several of your character traits that are not so wonderful, but I find it rude and pointless as we ALL have traits that are less than desirable. Please refrain next time you want to call me a "child" because i disagree with you. Personal attacks do not help anyone.

I just find it VERY surprising that you are complaining that someone killed and looted you, when you on the other hand are actively seeking to PK/steal from everyone in your range.

You cant name a single person that i've looted.( I'm 100% confident because i've never looted any corpse on this character.) And I doubt you can name anyone who's things i've stolen that they haven't gotten back. Everyone "in my range" has had their items returned in one form or another, mostly in the form of an easter egg hunt.

that being said i'm sure the person had a 100% legit reason to kill me with their rp. its not the person im talking about, its the "cookie cutter" rp i'm talking about... trust me i feel the same way about evils. This just stood out in my mind because the vast majority of my fights lately have been with overzealous halflings, and this incident just happened recently.

[Helsieve]

Sometimes playing a reactionary character can yield the best RP results. Often if you are the proactive RP -> PKer then people will see you as a trash pker or the like. If you only pk in defense (No, not like a herald), or as a direct result of interacting with someone via RP, your reasons become alot more legitimate, or at least SEEM so to whoever else you're fighting.

I was blackjacked and backstabbed for an oblit by a thief that was around level 30, it literally didn't leave me any room to RP if the attacker wanted to at all. I'm not complaining, it wasn't cheap, and it wasn't underhanded. It was a thief that wanted some of my stuff. Point is, I literally couldn't RP unless I wanted to RP dying to someone who wanted my stuff, or simply wanted to see me die. Reactive RP If said thief was evil, in all likelihood I would have given them the reason to kill me without attacking them first.

[f0xx]

...and when I made this character your scorned me because i didn't pick slith which was the obvious power combo.

You know, it was simply a joke about ignoring my advice, which you asked for in first place.

I will refrain myself from giving advices in future then. Once again, whatever I do, I am in a lose-lose scenario.

The real problem here is that neither ingame, nor in real life things will always go the way you want them to. I am sure you've learned how to deal with such situations in real life, you just need to learn how to deal with them ingame.

[Sandbox]

You know, it was simply a joke about ignoring my advice, which you asked for in first place.

I will refrain myself from giving advices in future then. Once again, whatever I do, I am in a lose-lose scenario.

i've always been thankful for the help you've given. That doesn't mean i have to agree with you on everything though . I tend to come across as argumentative, but i'm ok with that.

If it were up to me everyone would be born neutral and their actions would decide if the world see's them as good neutral or evil. The things you encounter in life and how you handle them dictate who you are. If you go around killing people because they have different beliefs than you perhaps you may feel you are doing the world a favor, however i may see you as an evil religious zealot.

If you go around killing everyone who doesn't worship budha, I think your evil for doing so and I kill you then someone else thinks im evil and kills me... who's really the evil one in all of this? Is it all of us or none of us? Do a persons actions decide their alignment or their intentions? I would certainly say actions but someone else might say intentions...

[f0xx]

If it were up to me everyone would be born neutral and their actions would decide if the world see's them as good neutral or evil. The things you encounter in life and how you handle them dictate who you are.

In a perfect game, with a fulltime staff that recieves salaries, yes that is the best solution.

Since this is not a perfect game though, and we don't live in a perfect world, we choose what our are charecters are upon creation and then we must stick to what we have chosen

Sometimes it is hard, becuase your character is the strongest around while neutral at the same time and you want to go on a killing spree, but you should not