That thin line between IC and OOC

[KRins]

I find it odd that I can play an evil who doesnt go around killling everyone' date=' but someone cant play a good with more depth than that.[/quote']

careful there... you might dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back. I am not going to say anyone is necessarily wrong, but I will again voice that WE NEED RP ENFORCEMENT. Let's stop pretending to be something and let's actually be it. It is very doubtful that the IMMs will be changing much of anything about it, since I've personally been bringing it up since I started here. So it falls to us... I think each of us should post a *BRIEF* (I love words that aren't clear, it lets you shape it to your needs/wants/beverage of choice) character history in the shoutouts forum, as it will stay anonymous and give that forum a little more than "Nice kill....***hole". Has it become too "stale/cookie cutter" around here for you? Then do something about it, post your character's history, I was thinking pre-guild joining history, and those who you see as "cookie cutter or RPless" will follow suit if we use this method of both RP responsibility and character development, beyond what a lot of in game conversations scratch at, as our community norm.

EDIT: I spent the past few minutes thinking about how this could be abused as OOC info...but I, for the life of me, can not come up with a better way for us to police ourselves and put a dent into this age old issue.

[Blood Moon]

I think each of us should post a *BRIEF* (I love words that aren't clear' date=' it lets you shape it to your needs/wants/beverage of choice) character history in the shoutouts forum.[/quote']

You can just post it on prayer and they will put it under stories now already.

[KRins]

I mean, yeah that would work I guess... though my point in using a division we can all see is that the editing/censorship/personal feelings of the IMMs are removed unless things get into an incredibly petty e-pissing match where they refuse to accept the shout outs.

[Pali]

careful there... you might dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back. I am not going to say anyone is necessarily wrong' date=' but I will again voice that WE NEED RP ENFORCEMENT. Let's stop pretending to be something and let's actually be it. It is very doubtful that the IMMs will be changing much of anything about it, since I've personally been bringing it up since I started here. So it falls to us... I think each of us should post a *BRIEF* (I love words that aren't clear, it lets you shape it to your needs/wants/beverage of choice) character history in the shoutouts forum, as it will stay anonymous and give that forum a little more than "Nice kill....***hole". Has it become too "stale/cookie cutter" around here for you? Then do something about it, post your character's history, I was thinking pre-guild joining history, and those who you see as "cookie cutter or RPless" will follow suit if we use this method of both RP responsibility and character development, beyond what a lot of in game conversations scratch at, as our community norm.[/quote']

My main problem with this is that I'm someone who doesn't usually have much of a character's history sketched out before they're rolled. I'll have some very, very basic background worked out, as well as general temperament, but mostly I like to let my RP develop naturally as I play the game, to let my background information develop as I talk about it. I find this connects me a lot more to my character, and in general it makes who they are flow much more naturally than if I write out a detailed story for the char and then have to stay within those lines. I like post-chargen change.

Personally, I don't think that people are RPing too stale or cookie cutter at all... but I do find it ironic that people are at once complaining that people aren't RPing races stereotypically enough, and also complaining that people ARE RPing too stereotypically. Sure, most halflings might be light-hearted stoners... but what if my halfling's family was slaughtered before my eyes? Could that not possibly change my outlook?

And yes, not every good has to be Buffy, nor does every evil have to be Jason. But people, remember, we are playing a game here. People are doing this to have fun, and not everyone is going to have as much fun playing a teacher or healer as they will playing an avatar Knight. If you think that the game is lacking in this area, then make one yourself and lead by example. Don't want to? Then stop bitching that nobody else will, because you're not any different than they are.

[KRins]

That's exactly what I mean Pali...very very basic background...if your halfling's family was slaughtered by drow or something...if you are suddenly buddy-buddy with a decked drow...eh, I think I've just finally honed my skills as a revolutionary and want to try to make things better through rhetoric and idealistic statements instead of logical things like leading by example.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I like Behrens essay and think it should stay.

Got a short bio for you all:

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

[f0xx]

I like Behrens essay and think it should stay.

Got a short bio for you all:

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

:D

Been there, done that

[KRins]

I'd like to know a little bit more about the people that killed your father... I mean... If for instance, tall people killed my father...I would hate taller people, but I don't think I would just hate everyone, I mean...what did the short fat kids do to me?

[Nekky]

Having background stories posted on an OOC medium will eliminate the chances people have to RP with each other and discover these things in game. It would be a bit weird if someone you'd never met in game started coming up and accusing you of being OOC for grouping with someone that your backstory said you hated.

It would also lead to a lot more forum flaming, as people would start threads like, "Hey, character X's backstory said he's like this, but in game I saw him doing that! Trash!".

[Imoutgoodbye]

I'd like to know a little bit more about the people that killed your father... I mean... If for instance' date=' tall people killed my father...I would hate taller people, but I don't think I would just hate everyone, I mean...what did the short fat kids do to me?[/quote']

They had six fingers.

[Pali]

That's exactly what I mean Pali...very very basic background...if your halfling's family was slaughtered by drow or something...

Actually, I meant even more basic than that. I'll start to work out what he is doing, so I have a direction to run the character in (what cabal, what kinds of people he'd pick fights with, etc.)... but if his family was killed by drow, that is something I tend to come up with on the fly when discussing my past and then run with for the rest of that char's life. I don't RP well when I have a "my family was killed by drow, and that's why I fight evil" box to fit into - I do much better when I have a "I fight evil" box to fit into and, after a bit of time playing the char and setting a tone for him when the subject finally comes up, I'll come up on the fly with something that feels natural for who the character has been developing into (instead of drow killing my family, maybe I developed this attitude over years of studying history/propaganda, or maybe I had an encounter with a god, etc.).

I put very little planning into most of my best RP'd characters. It just works out better for me this way.

[f0xx]

The chance for a drow to kill a halfling is as big as the chance for a polar bear to kill an antilope, or a whale killing a gorilla. I hope you get what I mean.

[The-Nameless]

Actually, I meant even more basic than that. I'll start to work out what he is doing, so I have a direction to run the character in (what cabal, what kinds of people he'd pick fights with, etc.)... but if his family was killed by drow, that is something I tend to come up with on the fly when discussing my past and then run with for the rest of that char's life. I don't RP well when I have a "my family was killed by drow, and that's why I fight evil" box to fit into - I do much better when I have a "I fight evil" box to fit into and, after a bit of time playing the char and setting a tone for him when the subject finally comes up, I'll come up on the fly with something that feels natural for who the character has been developing into (instead of drow killing my family, maybe I developed this attitude over years of studying history/propaganda, or maybe I had an encounter with a god, etc.).

I put very little planning into most of my best RP'd characters. It just works out better for me this way.

But your chars are created with the intent of expanding your existing roleplay to beyond the norm. You often do judging by your past chars, and you will continue. I am not suggesting you have to have a novel written about your char, and your story, I am just suggesting that people play their character in the game, not themselves. How many people in the game are played like actual samurai? Not ****ing many. Now on that same note, how many people rage delete at their first death? More than enough. There are hundreds of times a day people let themselves make a decision without letting their character influence it. I remember there was an Elf Pally in knight who had a weapon I wanted. I made a comment about it was a magnificent blade offhandedly, and it is good one of my kin holds it as it will still scar evil this way. His next two action where removing hells fury, then giving it to me. Now the player behind him prolly did not wanna give the best polearm in the game away, but he allowed his character to act as his character would. I felt like a huge ***, but he refused to take it back. Now I realize that is an example where I greatly benefit, but all the same the principal of the character action taking first seat over the player actions is right there.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

Alright, I lost my post, so here we go again.

Language and intelligence have no correlation. NO native speaker, even mentally retarded ones, would ever mess up their be verbs. If you have the intelligence to speak you have the intelligence for language. The reason most of you think 'stupid' people mess up their words is because we associate certain dialects with intelligence, class and so on. Being a British RP native speaker doesn't mean you are high class, rich, or educated. It means you grew up and speak like people who are more likely to be so.

There is no correlation between long words and intelligence. Japanese babies use words that are twice as long as English ones all the time. That is just how their language works. They store grammatical and social information in the verb itself (just like English but to a greater degree). That doesn't make them smarter than anyone else. Using rare or archaic words means you studied them (hinting at a higher education) but even that has nothing to do with intelligence.

If you have enough intelligence to speak, you have the capacity for a complete language---the full grammar and vocabulary.

As for Behren's 'essay' on intelligence...I really hate it. Not only because it is flaming me directly, but because he is plain wrong. I wrote an essay on this a long time ago, but of course he didn't post it. What is the average intelligence in Aabahran? Is it 8? Is it 20? Are our chars superhumans or are they merely average? Even that isn't clear.

What is the difference between a 15 and 20 intelligence? It is expotential? It is it linear? 15 intelligence is obviously intelligent enough to understand abstract things like religion, tactics, and so forth. They certainly would have the capacity for normal language. If 8 is the average intelligence, these fire giants are all likely smarter than you and me.

Personally, I see the difference between 15, 20, and 25 intelligence as very small--measured by how it is in the game, by learning speed. An elf can learn something faster than a giant, but after that learning is done, they are on even ground and we go off into the RP of the wisdom stat to apply it. Giants might not be doing intense calculations and developing masterplans (or maybe they are---those are just skills), but they definitely know how to survive (despite thousands of years of wars against intellectually superior opponents).

this

[The-Nameless]

All of celerities comments are made 100% by human to human interaction. There is no racial line there so that is completely a flawed concept. We are playing different species here. You cannot gauge a fire giant on a human scale, that is 100% square peg in a round hole.

As far as Native speakers, where are fire giants native to? There is no fire giant city, why would they know comon well enough to hold a conversation? It would be similar to the Japanese learning english. They will hit a point where they can voice their meaning, without perfect grammar. You run into this quite often over here. Grammatically their english is destroyed but if you take what they mean in the sentence, it still works. The structure of common might elude a fire giant, who speaks in a rough, gutteral language. Why would a giant need to use descriptors to say he wants to kill someone? He can say me gonna smash yer face. there is no need for the fire giant to learn to say I plan on repeatedly striking your face with the end of my warhammer. I will continue this until you are not alive any longer, or my arm grows too weary to swing the weapon anymore. By your logic there should be no class restrictions either Celerity. As after training we should all function the same.

You want to start breaking things down by the numbers? A human practices to 75 in two pracs, a giant in 3. So, strictly by the numbers, a fire giant is about 30% dumber than a human. Now if you take away 30% of the average humans vocabulary, you are left with someone who cannot eloquently voice their opinion, BUT they can still voice it.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

All of celerities comments are made 100% by human to human interaction. There is no racial line there so that is completely a flawed concept. We are playing different species here. You cannot gauge a fire giant on a human scale' date=' that is 100% square peg in a round hole.[/quote']

And I will argue you're wrong until a universal INT is set based upon our game mechanics telling us which is which. And until that day, we'll have giants who won't/don't have to say "mer" (What the **** is that anyway?) I don't like Behrans essay either. Zigmut never talked to me like a retard. And any human with 18 int is mildly stupid as well if 15 is the low standard.

[Sandbox]

... but if his family was killed by drow, that is something I tend to come up with on the fly when discussing my past and then run with for the rest of that char's life.

I don't RP well when I have a "my family was killed by drow, and that's why I fight evil" box to fit into - I do much better when I have a "I fight evil" box to fit into

These two quotes are the type of logic I'm trying to fight. When someone rolls a character and the goes around murdering stuff then decides to make up a story when they are confronted that is a bit too late. Your not playing the character your playing a pk machine then making a story when you are forced too.

This is not kosher in my book.

[mya]

So, who is playing the mono-dimensional Knight Halfling ?

Is it F0xx or Krins ?

I lost track halfway in the thread.

[Evangelion]

These two quotes are the type of logic I'm trying to fight. When someone rolls a character and the goes around murdering stuff then decides to make up a story when they are confronted that is a bit too late. Your not playing the character your playing a pk machine then making a story when you are forced too.

This is not kosher in my book.

I completely disagree. I think it is a completely legitimate facet of both the RP and PK aspects of this game to allow individuals to PK first, RP later. Admittedly, it is equally legitimate (and perhaps preferable, to some people) for those steps to be inverted. But never, ever assume that simply because someone kills you and then wants to talk that they don't have a story waiting for you - you just have to be willing to not blow them off solely because they killed you. This path requires both the PKer and the PKee to be mature and interactive. Whether or not this is feasible is in the hands of the playerbase.

But the short version is, don't assume that your way is the right way. Because in a game that has no winner, and a circle that has no end, there is no correct path, but rather an infinite number of equally viable paths.

[Atebos]

Because in a game that has no winner' date=' and a circle that has no end, there is no correct path, but rather an infinite number of equally viable paths.[/quote']

/signed

[The-Nameless]

I completely disagree. I think it is a completely legitimate facet of both the RP and PK aspects of this game to allow individuals to PK first, RP later. Admittedly, it is equally legitimate (and perhaps preferable, to some people) for those steps to be inverted. But never, ever assume that simply because someone kills you and then wants to talk that they don't have a story waiting for you - you just have to be willing to not blow them off solely because they killed you. This path requires both the PKer and the PKee to be mature and interactive. Whether or not this is feasible is in the hands of the playerbase.

But the short version is, don't assume that your way is the right way. Because in a game that has no winner, and a circle that has no end, there is no correct path, but rather an infinite number of equally viable paths.

If there is an equal number of paths, why do you only do rangers and blms

[tassinvegeta]

If there is an equal number of paths' date=' why do you only do rangers and blms [/quote']

I thought this "Because in a game that has no winner, and a circle that has no end, there is no correct path, but rather an infinite number of equally viable paths." would be the end of this thread. But you my man found a way to keep it going.

[Sandbox]

may this thread never die!

[Pali]

These two quotes are the type of logic I'm trying to fight. When someone rolls a character and the goes around murdering stuff then decides to make up a story when they are confronted that is a bit too late. Your not playing the character your playing a pk machine then making a story when you are forced too.

This is not kosher in my book.

With respect, I think you'll be hard pressed to notice the difference from your end. And nearly everyone who plays here can tell you that I don't create PK machines. My chars may start out with the absolute bare bones of backstory... but as Nameless credited me with, I try very hard to make them develop into something that is unique and stands out RP-wise.

[Sandbox]

With respect' date=' I think you'll be hard pressed to notice the difference from your end. And nearly everyone who plays here can tell you that I don't create PK machines. My chars may start out with the absolute bare bones of backstory... but as Nameless credited me with, I try very hard to make them develop into something that is unique and stands out RP-wise.[/quote']

well from what i do know of you your current was always a joy to fight an interact with. most of your time here has been idle so i can't say much other that what i've seen which i have to admit has fleshed out to a nice character. I think with time i may be able to see the other side of the fence so to speak, i really should stop being so closed minded. I'm just not so sure everyone is able to develop characters the way you do without losing what the character was intended to be from the start if that makes any sense at all.