pugil question

[Sandbox]

does a giant using a staff and shield still pugil? :confused:

[Croyvern]

Heh. Funny. No.

[Elfrosto]

Pugil is defined as the use of a two handed staff as a singular weapon. Picture your character wielding a bo staff. Both ends are capable of offense and defense, as well as the center. With one hand on it, you are basically just holding a bokken.

[Sandbox]

wasn't sure if a giant had the strength to use both ends.. didn't seem like too much of a stretch to me

[f0xx]

He can use shield and staff at the same time (at least my enlarged BMG can) but staff will then count as 1 handed weapon so pugil won't work.

[Croyvern]

Pugil is defined as the use of a two handed staff as a singular weapon. Picture your character wielding a bo staff. Both ends are capable of offense and defense' date=' as well as the center. With one hand on it, you are basically just holding a bokken.[/quote']

Exactly. But following this logic, why can you not dual parry with a pugiled staff? I have often thought a warrior with Pugil, mastered in staff should be allowed to choose offensive or defensive pugil, choosing extra attacks, or an extra defense. See, against steel walls and the like, I would perfer the extra defense, where against say a thief I would want the extra attacks. Just something I have always been curious about.

[Celerity]

You already have an extra defense for when using a staff as a two-handed weapon (without a shield): two handed (weaponblock).

You mean an extra extra defense? Two handed + dual parry?

[Croyvern]

You already have an extra defense for when using a staff as a two-handed weapon (without a shield): two handed (weaponblock).

You mean an extra extra defense? Two handed + dual parry?

Exactly, give up the extra attacks for, dodge, parry, dual parry, and weapon block. I mean come on, is a staff master warrior really so overpowered if we did? I think it would actually help balance it out a little. But its just my opinion having played many said warriors and having noticed that my extra attacks against clerics were actually a negative instead of positive thing.

[f0xx]

Wielding a staff is not about being offensive anyway...

[Dizz]

Pugil used to have dual parry, back in 1.0. It's been toned down since then. I loved training pugil then. I got hand to hand, dual wield, dual parry, staff, two handed all at the same time!

[jibber]

You still can train dual wield and dual parry with a two-handed weapon for some reason...

[mya]

You mean you want warriors using a staff, the most defensive weapon in game, that allows:

Parry

Two Handed Block

Dodge

Dual Parry

Riposte

That is five defenses....

Lets not.

Unless all my characters can use a Mindflail.

[f0xx]

You still can train dual wield and dual parry with a two-handed weapon for some reason...

Dual wield yes, but dual parry? Are you sure?

Dual parry and two handed exclude each other, you cannot have both at the same time, since as Mya said that makes 5 defences.

[Sandbox]

You mean you want warriors using a staff, the most defensive weapon in game, that allows:

Parry

Two Handed Block

Dodge

Dual Parry

Riposte

That is five defenses....

Lets not.

Unless all my characters can use a Mindflail.

i don't think that's too much considering (without giving any info away here) thieves can have up to four defenses. Is it really to much to ask that a warrior be more defensive than a thief?

[f0xx]

It's not important how many, but how reliable. Some combos have 1 defence only which works better than a few others combined

Two-handed is one of the most reliable defences in the game.

[jibber]

Dual wield yes, but dual parry? Are you sure?

Dual parry and two handed exclude each other, you cannot have both at the same time, since as Mya said that makes 5 defences.

I've had both go up while training @ scare-crows with a practice glaive or other two-handed weapon. I dunno how, or why, or if it's been changed since.. but it's happened.

[mya]

Two-handed is one of the most reliable defences in the game.

If you are a Giant Warrior. You wimpy Halfling is better of using a shield.

I would say that Shield block is the most reliable Defence.

Sure it cannot be Uber like a FG with a Staff, but no matter the class it works.

[f0xx]

If you are a Giant Warrior. You wimpy Halfling is better of using a shield.

I would say that Shield block is the most reliable Defence.

Sure it cannot be Uber like a FG with a Staff, but no matter the class it works.

What does it matter if it is a fire giant or a halfling using the staff?

You make no sense dear

And yes, as stated in the guides, shield block is the most reliable deffence (which is quite logical) but two handed comes as close as second.

Whith shield equiped are down to 4 attacks though, while with wielding a staff that is not the case

[mya]

Wielding a staff you Lose 2 attacks, and Bonus damage from 2handed.

Halfling vs Fire Giant, I think you can figure this one out alone.

[L-A]

Wielding a staff you Lose 2 attacks, and Bonus damage from 2handed.

Halfling vs Fire Giant, I think you can figure this one out alone.

IMHO a halfling must use a staff in this situation. Bash damage is easily offset when setup right - a fg warrior should never win on an attempted bash lock vs a halfling provided you are correctly setup for the fight. The catch is if you are not probably setup you will have a VERY hard time vs the fire giant.

TBH, I would say 100% of the time (on a warrior/ranger) a staff is superior to shield/weapon (even shield/whip vs a zerk). The reason isn't in the attacks you do or do not get - its in what you give up to use a shield.

My latest lvl 50 was a warrior (non-giant) so I ended up finding creative ways of exploting people even when lag locks were employed against me. The biggest downside of a non-giant warrior (I found) was that giants would atttempt lag lock and run away when it didn't work. I had to be VERY fast to get on them - and I don't always possess that speed. Correct eq setup certainly even allowed me to overcome (mostly) hit/dam bonuses ogres and giants had.

L-A

[f0xx]

Wielding a staff you Lose 2 attacks, and Bonus damage from 2handed.

Halfling vs Fire Giant, I think you can figure this one out alone.

Mya, your comment was after my post that two handed is one of the most reliable defences, NO MATTER A HALFLING OR A FG WIELDS IT. And thats true.

Also, wielding a staff you GAIN two attacks compared to wielding a weapon + shield and you don't lose the two handed bonus since staffs are two handed.

Sometimes I really fail to understand you. Your logic seems lost somewhere in the translation.

[mya]

Next time you play a Warrior try to run around with two Demon Talismans on your neck. *HINT HINT*

And remember, all weapon defenses are dependent of your weapons Knowledge.

[L-A]

Next time you play a Warrior try to run around with two Demon Talismans on your neck. *HINT HINT*

And remember, all weapon defenses are dependent of your weapons Knowledge.

I think you are very wrong in this Mya. Use the staff - its superior to the shield unless you don't have the hitroll to compete. Even then, use the staff as you lose something else (not based on hitroll) to deal damage which you sorely need in teh case of a halfing vs an attempted bash lock.

The only advantage I see here is not in str (which is what I assuem you allude to with teh demon talismans?). Its the giants 103% in two handed - while it provdies 1-2% (assuming not fire weapons) I don't think its going to be a huge deciding factor in a halfer warrior vs fg warrior battle. Using a shield is going to make it VERY hard to kill that giant off.

L-A

[jibber]

I've played my share of halfling warriors (.. one actually) and it was against Nortak at the time. Although he nearly bash locked me everytime I fought him, he was never able to get the bash lock. I ALWAYS wielded a staff. If I wore anything else, it was downhill for me.. and yes, I tried weapon+shield. Staff is always superior if you really need all that defense and a little offense.

I actually almost got Nortak once Trip lock is insane when you catch someone without sanc.. but too bad there's no such thing as a trip lock to someone who's put absolutely no commands in their buffer while fighting me, except flee

[Celerity]

Like LA was hinting at, a warrior using shield block gives up fired weapons, which isn't worth any lore or benefit that a shield gives you---except maybe against haymaker. MAYBE.

The reason you seem to parry better with two-handed weapons is because they are generally heavier than one-handed ones. Wielding a heavy, blessed one-handed weapon with no dual weapon and standing on stable terrain is the best for hitting with that weapon and the best for normal parry, but you give up two-handed and dual parry. Use double grip and you have a super parry plus two handed...that is the real power of double grip. If you dual wield, your ability to hit and parry goes down with the primary weapon.

You can easily test this at low ranks. Rank a warrior up as normal. As soon as you get dual wield, practice it, and notice that your primary attacks hits less often, weaker, and you can't parry as well suddenly.

As for having the correct eq setup...if the giant and the halfling warrior both have the correct setup, the halfling loses. It is only when the halfling has a decidedly BETTER setup than the giant that the halfling can compete--even then that is not always the case.

Comparing two-handed vs shield block...normally they are exactly the same. It is when you get blind, move from a city square, or otherwise are disadvantaged that shield block becomes more consistent.

While a 3% prof bonus might not seem like much, you have to remember to calculate it as not only a defense bonus, but also as an increased knowledge of their weapon. A small disadvantage for using a staff against a giant.

Now you can begin to understand why certain chars always seem to hit you much harder and much more often than other chars with a similar build.