Race restrings

[KRins]

That is not correct.

"In the game, they are drow which have been transformed from the waist down so they have the lower body of a spider. The transformation is typically a punishment for offending their goddess, Lolth, or failing one of her tests."

Also, driders are not Demons.

All true. Except in the 4th edition where the drider transformation is considered a blessing from Lloth. In other veins of fantasy, driders are made by other drows doing some nasty science/magic to a drow. Fleshshaping or something along those lines...which stands to reason that a human could undergo the same process.

[f0xx]

What is a 4th edition?

[The-Nameless]

[edit] Ecology

In Dungeons & Dragons, only high-level priestesses in good standing with Lolth are able to initiate the transformation of a dark elf into a drider. This transformation is very painful, and lasts at least 12 hours. Driders develop a poisonous bite. Their digestion changes and they must drink blood of living creatures for sustenance. Driders still maintain the spells and special abilities they had developed as a drow. There can exist any character class of drider. They retain intelligence and memories. This usually makes them bitter, spiteful creatures. Some hunt for magic powerful enough to undo the transformation.

In previous editions, driders appear sexless due to bloating, but able to magically reproduce. In Dungeons & Dragons edition 3.5, driders seem to retain their gender and characteristics after the transformation, but fertility is debatable.

SOURCE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drider

I will also take a step forward and eliminate the fact that someone is gonna say this is not D&D. Gygax created 95% of the mythical creatures that are now commonplace in all fantasy games/settings. Everything that exists now comes from greek mythology, or Gygax. Driders WERE created by gygax for D&D

[Sandbox]

What is a 4th edition?

it's a d&d reference.

[f0xx]

[edit] Ecology

In Dungeons & Dragons, only high-level priestesses in good standing with Lolth are able to initiate the transformation of a dark elf into a drider. This transformation is very painful, and lasts at least 12 hours. Driders develop a poisonous bite. Their digestion changes and they must drink blood of living creatures for sustenance. Driders still maintain the spells and special abilities they had developed as a drow. There can exist any character class of drider. They retain intelligence and memories. This usually makes them bitter, spiteful creatures. Some hunt for magic powerful enough to undo the transformation.

In previous editions, driders appear sexless due to bloating, but able to magically reproduce. In Dungeons & Dragons edition 3.5, driders seem to retain their gender and characteristics after the transformation, but fertility is debatable.

SOURCE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drider

I will also take a step forward and eliminate the fact that someone is gonna say this is not D&D. Gygax created 95% of the mythical creatures that are now commonplace in all fantasy games/settings. Everything that exists now comes from greek mythology, or Gygax. Driders WERE created by gygax for D&D

Can you point out which of this says that the transformation is a blessing rather than a curse?

Yes, it can be initiated by high priestess. They bring drows before Lolth for consideration. Failed drows are turned into driders. There are also known cases of drows which have met Lolth for consideration and passed her "test" and therefore go through the ritual un-changed.

[edit] Also, if you read a bit more from that site you are quotion, you will see that drider transformation supports my point and it IS a curse, not a blessing.

[The-Nameless]

All true. Except in the 4th edition where the drider transformation is considered a blessing from Lloth. In other veins of fantasy' date=' driders are made by other drows doing some nasty science/magic to a drow. Fleshshaping or something along those lines...which stands to reason that a human could undergo the same process.[/quote']

If you notice in my D&D exerpt, I said this, BUT most of the drider try to find a way to transform back.

[The-Nameless]

In that clip your english is failing you. Replace initiate with start. Only high level priestesses can become drider, start the transformation.

I am a first edition to current d&d nerd. I love the depth put into their works, but Driderism is something Lloth likes, and drow both hold it in awe, and are sickened by it.

[f0xx]

In that clip your english is failing you. Replace initiate with start. Only high level priestesses can become drider' date=' start the transformation.[/quote']

You don't seem to be reading, do you?

They do start the process, I do not argue about that. Lolth is the who finishes it though.

I will quote it again.

The transformation is typically a punishment for offending their goddess, Lolth, or failing one of her tests.

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drider. Surprising, isn't it?

[The-Nameless]

That is also for first edition D&D. Since the original (over 30 years ago) Drider have taken a place of respected power in Drow society.

Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition (2008-)

The drider appears in the Monster Manual for this edition (2008), including the drider fanglord and the drider shadow spinner.[9] Unlike in other editions of the game, the 4th edition Monster Manual says that being turned into a drider is a blessing, not a curse.

So the most current information regarding Drider 100% indicates that Driders are a blessing, not a curse.

I love it when people read something and immediately think it is all they need to look superior

Ill bet you 20 bucks the world isn't flat F0xx

Nameless:1

F0xx:0

[the_nightmare]

I love when people make f0xx look like an ***

[f0xx]

Nameless:1

F0xx:0

I don't know what this D&D is, but it sounds like some game. This is not D&D, this is FL. Your point system seems wrong.

Your source still says:

The transformation is typically a punishment for offending their goddess, Lolth, or failing one of her tests.

And that is the most common undertsanding for drider. That is how driders are considered in many books.

They are spiteful after all, you said that yourself. Why would someone be spiteful if he is blessed?

*shrugs*

Now, can we get back on topic? Blessing or a curse, I believe we both agree on the fact that it is DROW who is transformed into a drider, not a human.

[Sandbox]

go read the backstory on minotaurs in fl and how they became minotaurs and go read the backstory on how they became minotaurs in D&D im willing to bet 20 bux they are different. D&D is a good reference point but this is a fantasy world built on different rules and if the player is in depth enough that they can describe how their race ended up in our world then i think they should be able to play it. You wanna know how driders came into fl? ask the drider.

[KRins]

Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition (2008-)

The drider appears in the Monster Manual for this edition (2008), including the drider fanglord and the drider shadow spinner.[9] Unlike in other editions of the game, the 4th edition Monster Manual says that being turned into a drider is a blessing, not a curse.

Same wikipedia article.

STOP WRITING FASTER THAN ME!!!

[The-Nameless]

f0xx, the man who created the fantasy race of a Drider IS Gary Gygax. So dungeons and dragons gave birth to driders, and lloth, and drow. The fact that Dungeons and Dragons determines them as a blessing, not a curse (for the last 2.5 years) means, to me, that becoming a drider is a blessing, not a curse. Your using outdated info, that is why with Wikipedia you read the entire article before deciding anything in it is the "law". In this you are wrong, I get a point because I am right, becoming a drider is a blessing. You accepting it is 100% beyond the point. Driders are rare, and revered BECAUSE you have to be a badass Drow to become one. Thats it. Most of them go mad because they are half friggin spider, who would not want to go back to being a moderately hot drow elf instead of a disgusting spider who has to eat people smoothies and you have to live in real caves, not just underground.

[The-Nameless]

go read the backstory on minotaurs in fl and how they became minotaurs and go read the backstory on how they became minotaurs in D&D im willing to bet 20 bux they are different. D&D is a good reference point but this is a fantasy world built on different rules and if the player is in depth enough that they can describe how their race ended up in our world then i think they should be able to play it. You wanna know how driders came into fl? ask the drider.

Minotaurs have a thousand different creations based on what century you where born in, what part of the country, and your religion. A greek will have a very different opinion of a minotaur compared to a Norse Pagan. But that is In Greek mythology, the Minotaur (Greek: Μῑνώταυρος, Latin: Minotaurus, Etruscan Θevrumineś), as the Greeks imagined him, was a creature with the head of a bull on the body of a man[1] or, as described by Ovid, "part man and part bull."[2] He dwelt at the center of the Cretan Labyrinth, which was an elaborate maze-like construction[3] built for King Minos of Crete and designed by the architect Daedalus and his son Icarus who were ordered to build it to hold the Minotaur. The Minotaur was eventually killed by Theseus, the son of Aegeas.

That is the Greek origin. The D&D origin is they where one of the races created at the birth of D&D with a pre built adventure, you guess it, a labyrinth. Now as far as FL is concerned it is a base race here, not a fantastic creature, so it can even be assumed that is how they evolved.

[The-Nameless]

They are spiteful after all' date=' you said that yourself. Why would someone be spiteful if he is blessed?[/quote']

Easy? The world is full of examples of spiteful heroes. Both real, and fictional.

Just because a god gives you a blessing means you have to be incredibly thankful about it. If the god of purity blesses a demon, he will not be thankful about it.

[f0xx]

The fact that Dungeons and Dragons determines them as a blessing' date=' not a curse (for the last 2.5 years) means.[/quote']

Once again, I am not talking about a certain game. I am talking about the most common understanding.

I find it funny how some writer, hell even the one who created them at first place, decides to change an understanding that is 30 years old and then expects everyone to simply accept it?

"Hey guys, I know I have already released 4 parts of this game which say that driders are a curse, but they actually aren't. Consider them a blessing now."

This is my last post on this matter now, since it is simply not on topic.

As I said, curse or not, drows are the creatures being transformed, not humans.

[Sandbox]

That is the Greek origin. The D&D origin is they where one of the races created at the birth of D&D with a pre built adventure, you guess it, a labyrinth. Now as far as FL is concerned it is a base race here, not a fantastic creature, so it can even be assumed that is how they evolved.

or you can read the story and it tells you exactly how minotaurs came to be in fl...

Legends speak of a human called Minaus being the forefather of the Horned

Ones. Minaus was born into a human tribe of nomads that resided within

the lush forests that once existed between the dragon teeth mountains and

Miruvhor. Not much is recorded of his childhood, but that he grew into a

proud and violent barbarian leader - learned in the ways of the Berserker.

Minaus was known to charge into battle with his trademark dual axes, so

consumed by bloodlust that once or twice he would inadvertantly strike down

an ally. None dared intrude upon their territory and life was good; but

all good things in Aabahran must come to an end - and it is usually abrupt

and brutal.

As the Lunar Triad aligned, and the gateway to the rift opened, Minaus's

home took the brunt of the first wave of Chaos. Though the majority of his

tribesmen died within a blink of an eye, Minaus and his best warriors stood

fierce and stubborn, causing so many casualties in the seemingly endless

demon army that it impressed the entity known as Crypticant. Sensing so

much violence and chaos within the heart of Minaus, the Crypticant did not

kill him, but left him and his men to die along with his forest home. Yet

the Demon was not the only deity impressed by Minaus. The fleeting spirit

of the forest poured its last magics into Minaus, transforming him into a

creature fitting of such rage - the body of a man, but the upper torso of

a bull. Thus, Minaus came the first Minotaur - the name being derived from

a shortened version of Minaus's Tribe in the ancient tongue. The remaining

warriors were then changed to match their leader's appearance, and their

forest homeland was soon corrupted by the Chaos energy, becoming the desert

wasteland that is now known as the Forsaken Lands.

Instead of falling into despair, Minaus accepted his new form and moved his

people out of the deserts, across the Dragon Teeth mountains, and into the

Alpines. He spawned many litters and the race grew. After the passing of

Minaus, who some minotaurs believe ascended into the heavens, a Minotaur

by the name of Mahun rose to power, assuming leadership of the Herd. Much

of his reign has been lost to history, but it is known that during his 30th

year in power, his son Tahros challenged him for leadership. After a bloody

match lasting several hours, the son of Mahun struck a fatal blow on his

father.

In the year 900, Mahn-Tor's son, Prince Zaar would finally usurp his father.

Zaar quickly gained the popularity of his people for the annihilation of

the elven homeland. Hailed as a war Hero, he was dubiously absent from his

Father's side during the subsequent invasion of Rheydin. The minotaurs were

forced to retreat and what happened next has had few eye-witnesses. Upon

returning to Mahn-Tor, the gates were immediately sealed for two years. Some would claim that Zaar, who protested the invasion of Rheydin, challenged and defeated his father in open combat. Others would claim more nefarious deeds

were involved. One thing is certain, when the city reoppened its doors, it

had a new leader in Mahn-Zaar, along with a new name, Minoma.

[The-Nameless]

Once again, I am not talking about a certain game. I am talking about the most common understanding.

I find it funny how some writer, hell even the one who created them at first place, decides to change an understanding that is 30 years old and then expects everyone to simply accept it?

"Hey guys, I know I have already have released 4 parts of this game which say that driders are a curse, but they actually aren't. Consider them a blessing now."

Your basing your most common understanding of drow from the same game you are telling me not to use for my points. Driders started with D&D, so ANY understanding of the race that is remotely accurate will be based on D&D reference material. It is not like Gary Gygax and some Bulagarian both created Driders at the same time it is undeniably from D&D. Your using the same template Gygax started with to argue that driders are a curse, while at the same time telling me that my information doesn't count because it comes from D&D. ANY reference material regarding a drider will come from D&D.

[Demiterracotta]

In fourth edition. Minus AC is bad. We're all going to die. Oh, and you pretty much have to be good. So no more rolling evils. Also. Where are the dragonmen?

Both points are valid. The wonderful world of Aabahran ALLOWS people to create RP to suit them as long as they are not violating the rules. Looks to me like the Drider got the re-string, therefore an IMM thought they were following the rules and had a good solid basing for being a Drider. Perhaps they seek to become a Demon, and they as a PLAYER believe that Drider's are demons, make your own lore, and roll up a Elf Paladin that is re-strung to Drider. Then app for avatar. Then you and the demon drider can sit on Llolth's shoulder and argue who is right.

[f0xx]

Your basing your most common understanding of drow from the same game you are telling me not to use for my points.

I ain't basing anything on some stupid game I've never played. There have been a ton of romans that have been published since 1970 who claim that drider is an outcast of the drow society, cursed by the goddes Lolth for their lack of faith or whatever.

Then the guy who created them suddenly decides to turn on 180 degrees. When you create a myth, the myth sometimes becomes stronger than you.

PLEASE NOTE, I am referring to the SAME source as you. And that source says:

"The transformation is typically a punishment for offending their goddess, Lolth, or failing one of her tests."

I ain't talking about different editions of the game. I am talking about the most common understanding.

[Twinblades713]

We actually spoke with the Mechanus about what is allowed and what isn't. The line here is the distinction between robots/computers and objects controlled by magic.

There are no "robots" in FL. There are golems, or Mechanus, which are objects controlled by magic.

That's just a simple change of semantics. It was a gnomish magic producing thing. If I called it a mini mech, would that have sufficed? :confused:

[f0xx]

In fourth edition. Minus AC is bad. We're all going to die. Oh, and you pretty much have to be good. So no more rolling evils. Also. Where are the dragonmen?

Both points are valid. The wonderful world of Aabahran ALLOWS people to create RP to suit them as long as they are not violating the rules. Looks to me like the Drider got the re-string, therefore an IMM thought they were following the rules and had a good solid basing for being a Drider. Perhaps they seek to become a Demon, and they as a PLAYER believe that Drider's are demons, make your own lore, and roll up a Elf Paladin that is re-strung to Drider. Then app for avatar. Then you and the demon drider can sit on Llolth's shoulder and argue who is right.

Heh, that really made me smile

More power to you mate.

[The-Nameless]

I ain't talking about different editions of the game. I am talking about the most common understanding.

Try to follow me here f0xx, I have said this a few times but I wanna be clear on it. That like that you keep quoting is literally a word for word pull from the first edition version of the demonweb pits. Literally. That is the first appearance of the Drider race in the history of our planet. In that version, that first paragraph you keep quoting appears in the Fiend Folio, or glossary of monsters located in the back of it. The understanding that you have, and keep spouting, IS from D&D. Your just not making that correlation. If ten years down the road someone told you something about Anume, you would spout off your understanding, and them theirs. Now they may not be the same, but you have to go with what is most common, and accepted. As it stands now Fourth edition has sold more books than any series of D&D ever. Which strictly based on numbers means that it is the most widely used basis for the fantasy creatures inside. WHICH MEANS that driders are NOT a curse, you are quoting a line on that Wiki that is outdated. If I told you the earth was flat, and believed it, you would show me more current information, that is it.

[f0xx]

Try to follow me here f0xx' date=' I have said this a few times but I wanna be clear on it. That like that you keep quoting is literally a word for word pull from the first edition version of the demonweb pits. Literally. That is the first appearance of the Drider race in the history of our planet. In that version, that first paragraph you keep quoting appears in the Fiend Folio, or glossary of monsters located in the back of it. The understanding that you have, and keep spouting, IS from D&D. Your just not making that correlation. If ten years down the road someone told you something about Anume, you would spout off your understanding, and them theirs. Now they may not be the same, but you have to go with what is most common, and accepted. As it stands now Fourth edition has sold more books than any series of D&D ever. Which strictly based on numbers means that it is the most widely used basis for the fantasy creatures inside. WHICH MEANS that driders are NOT a curse, you are quoting a line on that Wiki that is outdated. If I told you the earth was flat, and believed it, you would show me more current information, that is it.[/quote']

CUT IT. I am coming on aim to prove you wrong