Tribunal Issues

[Thelsyome]

Don't get me wrong though' date=' I do think that Tribs should be powerful enough to protect the towns and keep outlaws at bay, but it should be the result of the characters pk skill, not how well they can control their pets.[/quote']

That's interesting. From what I've seen... the only Tribunals that have pushed beyond hundreds in captures... are those that have exemplified above average PK skill. The rest have poor to average numbers of captures. And this reflects.

Grosek you were one of those above-average players in Justice and thus one of the better capturers. You were able to see the potential in a skill and capitalize on it. Does that mean the skill is overpowered? No, just means you're quicker and more skilled than others. Do we see characters like Ceqia rolling in the captures? Or even Raniku and Plathar? These people have THE SAME means to capture criminals... the same tools. Not that these characters don't contribute because they very much do, and I feel they are outstanding characters.

Just from personal experience with Justice, and based on my own pk-ing skill... which is far below any Udrics or Martineiuses... I just don't see the skill as being over-powered. In addition, Tribunes have to capture criminals not in their PK range as well. The suggested restriction would make capturing these criminals highly difficult for certain Tribunes.

[mya]

I dont see how Tribunal make cities safe ?

It would be a lot more rewardign to have the square center be a 3 by 3 forest square, so that people cannot hide in there.

A better solution would be to create a forest city. A real city with shops, so that people could be safe in there.

[Warpnow]

There is a forest city. A real one with shops, last I checked.

[H&R]

The real problem, as I see it, is the Council ability that simply makes it impossible to escape unless you outdamage the blood guard and the Tribunal or are in an area where you can go around in circles, like in a town. You can't even hunt after them if you do give out more damage for crying out loud! For the first time, I gotta say, my chars are actually afraid of getting outlawed, wanted even... Perhaps that's what you want to accomplish...

I also agree that the adjudicator skill is very nasty, but you can at least run from the Tribunal using it.

I do, however, believe that the Tribunals should remain very powerful, as they will always have many enemies, and they should get the respect they deserve as an empire.

[Icor]

If people are getting their asses kicked by Tribunals, stop breaking the law. It's actually really simple.

[The Greased Weasel]

If people are getting their asses kicked by Tribunals' date=' stop breaking the law. It's actually really simple.[/quote']

*cough*Amen*cough*

[random_clown]

If people are getting their asses kicked by Tribunals' date=' stop breaking the law. It's actually really simple.[/quote']

...or being watcher...or being syndicate...or wanting to raid a city...

[Icor]

As far as I can tell, people have already figured that out.

But, I mean, common. There's always a Cabal that's really in charge of everything. It'll switch over to someone else eventually. I remember when Syndicate was kicking everyone's *** back when Poplin was around.

[WarriorCleric]

WC

[The Greased Weasel]

Nice WC made me giggle

[crackwilly21]

Indeed.

[sarduarkar]

Lol, nice WC.

Well, I brought some similar concerns in prayer. After some deliberation, here's my thoughts:

My general take on things.... If there is at least something that can be done in the situation, then I won't say anything.

Is tribunal members strong? Sure... But any caballed member get skills that make them a bit stronger than the average crowd. So the question is, are the tribunal so strong that absolutely nothing can be done against them? After some deliberation, I come to the conclusion someone using enough skill can still take them down (I've seen mashik do quite well). So going by my usual standard, I guess im ok with it for now.

Do they get more powers than other cabals? That's another debatable issue. I honestly think they do, but they also have the responsibility of keeping their empire safe. And as it is your choice to get wanted in town, I'll leave that be for now.

Instead, here is what I've thought up when fighting tribunals (see next post by me).

[sarduarkar]

Against a tribunal (especially more than one), the going is tough, I'll admit. But here's my advice.

1. Full loot. Yes outlaw makes Trib auto full loot. If you get captured, log off... (unless you are a pro with equiping while under heat). I say there is nothing wrong with logging off, and having fun with another char till tribs are gone (you gotta do what you gotta do). Equip and only fight them when you're ready (otherwise you'll be capturedagain easily).

Also, If I ever kill a trib, you can be sure I'm gonna full loot. So no worries about the full loot aspect. (btw, there are ways to full loot easily in FL. Might be good to figure those out)

2. Location. Make sure you choose the location you fight tribs. You may be stuck fighting them, but make sure you fight them where its advantageous for you. Big areas are generally better than small ones. This may give you some leverage against certain advantages they have in certain situations.

3. Getting around the charmie (it's obvious that they have one, so I hope imms dont mind me mentioning it). This may be the hardest thing against a tribunal. It is possible to get first attack. If you are fast, or a good chaser, you will have an easier time here. If you are not a fast chaser, learn to redirect immediately. Redirect also has no lag, so use it to your advantage.

Edit: Concerning the redirect (I foresee some problems). Consider using spells if you have them in your arsenal. Otherwise you may notice you wont be able to redirect immediately. I think you might have to wait a round to redirect? (cause trib will not officially be in battle for a round).

4. If you are a autosneak class, don't underestimate the power of sneak-flee. Also, timing flee and timing attacks can be beneficial at times.

5. If you can't beat a tribunal normally on a one on one, your most definitely not gonna beat them with their tribs skills. This is kinda where its harsh on newer players. The solution to this is to get more skilled or stronger (via better eq, cabal allies, etc.), but all these options take time.

Illustration:

Sard might beat a Noob-Average tribunal. But a noob-average may never be able to beat Sard tribunal (assuming sard has more experience/skill). And once noob is outlawed, he may never ever have hope of recovering.

Listening to posts... i can tell it makes the char 100x less fun for some players who just can't win against certain tribs (and since they will become outlaw, they will be forever hunted). I wish there was a way to get around this other than sucking up to the tribunal and getting the flag removed.

Mad props to yewhantull, however. He is taking his time, not giving up, and probably getting better with his class/race combo eventhough he gets a beating from trib. Also props to mashik, enshendus, and other outlaws I've seen recently tough it through and do well.

If you disagree or maybe have a situation where you think it's completely gimped against you, feel free to PM me. After all, maybe there's something I missed.

[Designated_Driver]

That's interesting. From what I've seen... the only Tribunals that have pushed beyond hundreds in captures... are those that have exemplified above average PK skill. The rest have poor to average numbers of captures. And this reflects.

Grosek you were one of those above-average players in Justice and thus one of the better capturers. You were able to see the potential in a skill and capitalize on it. Does that mean the skill is overpowered? No, just means you're quicker and more skilled than others. Do we see characters like Ceqia rolling in the captures? Or even Raniku and Plathar? These people have THE SAME means to capture criminals... the same tools. Not that these characters don't contribute because they very much do, and I feel they are outstanding characters.

Just from personal experience with Justice, and based on my own pk-ing skill... which is far below any Udrics or Martineiuses... I just don't see the skill as being over-powered. In addition, Tribunes have to capture criminals not in their PK range as well. The suggested restriction would make capturing these criminals highly difficult for certain Tribunes.

Not to knock on Martineius' or Pominsu's PK ability, at all. However, you'll notice something about each of them. Martineius is a vampire. A class that, codewise, with the right conditions is completely unbeatable. Coupled with a very nice pet, a wide variety of powerful cabal abilities, and a skilled PKer, that spells a nigh invincible character. Pominsu is a Necromancer. He already had five pets, three of which were very powerful, and then you add another pet to the bunch, one that autoattacks for him? This is the ultimate blessing for a necromancer, since they're always trying to find a way to get their pets to take the blows.

I'm just saying, it's unfair to make comparisons to characters such as Raniku, Plathar and Ceqia, when the two leading Tribunals are very PK-Capable characters (Players as well, but more importantly the baseline they have to work with).

[Ex-D&Der]

On second thought, maybe I'm just resistant to change, or attached to a MUD that's ancient history now.

[Nomak]

If people are getting their asses kicked by Tribunals' date=' stop breaking the law. It's actually really simple.[/quote']

What you just wrote is silly.What if my Rp includes breaking the laws?Syndicate was the most powerfull Pk cabal,it has to be the most powerful PK cabal but I see is that Tribunals are kicking syndicate asses and not because of the skills of the playerbase but because of their Tribunal skills.Those that say that Tribunal is not overpowered are either playing a tribunal or crazy.There were a lot of watchers and I played one,I can tell you that every watcher left because of that silly overpowered cabal.I have fought Meerdus while he was naked and I was decked.I killed him but he left me with 200hp for four rounds and this was only because of his guard.WTF is that?

[delfytheelfy]

Not to knock on Martineius' or Pominsu's PK ability, at all. However, you'll notice something about each of them. Martineius is a vampire. A class that, codewise, with the right conditions is completely unbeatable. Coupled with a very nice pet, a wide variety of powerful cabal abilities, and a skilled PKer, that spells a nigh invincible character. Pominsu is a Necromancer. He already had five pets, three of which were very powerful, and then you add another pet to the bunch, one that autoattacks for him? This is the ultimate blessing for a necromancer, since they're always trying to find a way to get their pets to take the blows.

I'm just saying, it's unfair to make comparisons to characters such as Raniku, Plathar and Ceqia, when the two leading Tribunals are very PK-Capable characters (Players as well, but more importantly the baseline they have to work with).

I agree with this post.

[spiegel06]

Ok, Let me ask you this; take out Martineius and Pominsu form Tribunal and overpowered is Tribunals? Mashik is a good example of a good Tribunal killer, he has killed Meerdus, Plathar, Ceqia, Raniku many times. It is true that some of those CB skills are strong but as as you see on the roll call how many do Plathar and Raniku have compared to Martineuis and Pominsu have?

That's interesting. From what I've seen... the only Tribunals that have pushed beyond hundreds in captures... are those that have exemplified above average PK skill. The rest have poor to average numbers of captures.

So again if Martinieus and Pominsu lets condied suddenly would we still be having "Tribunal overpowered" posts/threads? IMHO, no we wouldnt.

[Ex-D&Der]

Perhaps just make the max number of charmies for a necro 5.

[Grosek_]

Ok, Let me ask you this; take out Martineius and Pominsu form Tribunal and overpowered is Tribunals? Mashik is a good example of a good Tribunal killer, he has killed Meerdus, Plathar, Ceqia, Raniku many times. It is true that some of those CB skills are strong but as as you see on the roll call how many do Plathar and Raniku have compared to Martineuis and Pominsu have?

So again if Martinieus and Pominsu lets condied suddenly would we still be having "Tribunal overpowered" posts/threads? IMHO, no we wouldnt.

I find it alot more likely that the rest of the cabal hasn't figure out how to make full use of their cabal powers, that or they don't feel its their place to be apprehending criminals.

[Thelsyome]

Not to knock on Martineius' or Pominsu's PK ability, at all. However, you'll notice something about each of them. Martineius is a vampire. A class that, codewise, with the right conditions is completely unbeatable. Coupled with a very nice pet, a wide variety of powerful cabal abilities, and a skilled PKer, that spells a nigh invincible character. Pominsu is a Necromancer. He already had five pets, three of which were very powerful, and then you add another pet to the bunch, one that autoattacks for him? This is the ultimate blessing for a necromancer, since they're always trying to find a way to get their pets to take the blows.

I'm just saying, it's unfair to make comparisons to characters such as Raniku, Plathar and Ceqia, when the two leading Tribunals are very PK-Capable characters (Players as well, but more importantly the baseline they have to work with).

You think it is unfair to compare these characters because of the potential of their class. So this leads me to think: maybe the discussion should not be towards overpowered skills... but maybe to allowing/disallowing certain classes that make the player, in combination with the particular cabal, very unbeatable (this is touchy btw, as there are qclasses involved). Which in my opinion they are not (one of them is very near condeath even). We have restrictions of classes in several cabals... for ex. Crusader-Warmaster.... etc. My point is, certain players with certain classes, no matter what cabal they're in will do extremely well. If we make compensations for the VERY skilled players... what about the more averagely skilled players...that make up more than half of the pbase? As we make particular things (like capturing) harder for the better pk'ers (in this case 1-2 players) we're making things much, much harder for everyone else. But maybe this is what we want?

[Raargant]

I agree fully with Thelsyome on this. Ogre ranger is not a weak baseline to work with, nor is paladin; I'd consider the two some of the strongest classes in the game.

Not a knock against either Raniku or Plathar, but if Tribunal was an overpowered cabal, shouldn't everyone be dominating?

From a birds eye view as an IMM, I can assure you right now, that such is not the case.

Even Pominsu, as he has stated on the shoutouts, is close to condeath.

When you can take close to 60 deaths on a character, that character is most definitely NOT overpowered.

[Deykari]

I have to agree with Thelysome/Raargant on all accounts, apart from just one skill, which has been brought up. I hope this doesn't give anything away, but I think this skill should only be usable in areas protected by the law. As a wanted/outlaw who's going to get chased by constantly by the Tribunal forces, darting about and running is key. If for some reason you should need to run, well..

Dey

[Raargant]

Without going into detail, that skill has always worked everywhere. Furthermore, if you can win/beat them, it's meaningless.

Careful how far you go in describing it.

[Designated_Driver]

Without going into detail, that skill has always worked everywhere. Furthermore, if you can win/beat them, it's meaningless.

Careful how far you go in describing it.

Not true. If you're winning, they can run away, and you can't do jack.

Even a healer's gate, or a cleric's portal isn't that powerful.

And Re Thelsyome: I wasn't attempting to say that the cabal is overpowered. I was just pointing out why it's unfair for them to be used as a basis for comparison.