sarduarkar Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Well, also for the con side now (to view things openly)... Maybe the capture difference might have to do with the difference in chasing skills? Pominsu gots several lagging pets + huge damage capacity and maybe he's better at chasing (haven't had to face him, so don't know). As for Martinieus, he is fast... I've been captured by him before. However, being able to beat a tribunal and his guard in general might be a different story. Maybe more people are able to get away from let's say ceqia and plathar, but they will still feel the effects of tribunal power in that they have trouble ever beating them. Just a thought. I do agree however... a necro with a guard... that is powerful. I'm almost tempted to roll one up. In the past, didn't having a guard take up a slot for a charmie? That might be a suggestion to even things out. Can anyone honestly say 3 travens and a blood guard doesnt have to capacity to be near unbeatable? I think it would be easy to even take out a wanted martinius in such a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I have fought meerdus and beat him before he was in tribunal with him half decked and me naked. Now that he is tribunal, I fought him naked and had to run because of the guard. He didnt hit me ONCE. So its not just pom/marty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nympha Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Ok, I havent posted anywhere on Tribunals, but I have had several wanted Characters. I have had a fairly easy time of avoiding capture on each of said characters including when Martineaus and Pominsu were around. Having played both sides of the fense, I can not agree with anyone who says that Tribunal is overpowered. It simply isnt. The -only- reason I see that people bitch and moan about Tribunal being overpowered is the fact that they have two very very competent PK'ers in Tribunal. Knowing -how- a Tribunal's abilities work and knowing -how- to avoid getting captured is very key. Even with a character that simply can sneak and hide, it is fairly easy to avoid capture even while remaining in the city. Now I know for a fact that I am not, no where near close to being a top notch pk'er. In fact I suck at pk. But I am fairly good at running, and if I can avoid being captured on a non-healer class by Martineius and Pominsu it should stand to reason that those of you out there who -are- better than me should be able to as well. I also saw a ninja who was doing a very very good job of getting a study off on Tribunal but avoiding being caught. It is possible, It can happen. Just figure it out and quit whinning about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Its not the point of not being able to run, its the point of having to run no matter what that we are talking about here. Sure, anyone with enough salt can run, but should you be forced to run even decked and them near naked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Necro's have always been powerful, IF they had the right zombies. Lose them, and they have major problems regaining them, at least solo. Pominsu has died, from an IMM perspective, many times just getting those zombies, and many many times as soon as he lost them, while ghosted/dead. Being a Tribunal Necro has many decided disadvantages, the biggest of them being that the 'kill me' sign a necro has over him after he loses his zombies, glows in brilliant neon as a Tribunal. And, of course, necro's as a class handle multiple enemies very poorly, due to low hp/defenses. Again, it's the intangibles that you aren't looking at, which REQUIRE Tribunal to have very strong cabal powers. I personally think, as did Festorvian when he commented on it, that Tribunal in some situations needs a tone UP, rather than down. And delfy, if you are decked and they are naked, and they are beating you, then your play is totally incompetent. This isn't meant as an insult at all, btw. But it's simply not true that if you are playing properly, that a naked anything can beat a decked anything, and this goes for a naked vampire vs a decked...um...let's see...faerie thief as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelsyome Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 And Re Thelsyome: I wasn't attempting to say that the cabal is overpowered. I was just pointing out why it's unfair for them to be used as a basis for comparison. I didn't say you were saying the cabal is overpowered. I was making reference to the subject of the thread, that certain cabal skills being overpowered. I also responded directly to the idea that it is unfair to compare these characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grosek_ Posted March 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Wow, I didn't consider what an issue a necro should be. Given that the prepared necro's guard should always get the first attack in on the criminal, the criminal has to wait for the first round to pass before he can retarget the necro. So the criminal is left to run, meaning that first round he's soaked up blows and put nothing on the necro. If the necro is fast enough, he gets into the room before the criminal can move and the guard attacks again. If the criminal wants to chance the first round passing, he stands a very good chance of taking a bash/trip then locking him in the fight aiming at the guard and just getting pummeled, or perhaps taking a dirt kick preventing him from retargetting. Sure you could limit them to 5 charmies, but what necro is really counting on his flesh golem anyhow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 And yet, the necromancer is close to condeath. Within, I might add, less than three months of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greased Weasel Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I don't consider myself to be an "elite" player or anything like that so if I can lose three of them chasing me with a naked character im pretty sure theyre not overpowered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneak Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 As you said - he lost a lot of lives getting zombies. That has nothing to do with his pk'ing power. And I believe he has been ganged some times, which should not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneak Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 re greased weasel: you havent been chased by anyone who wanted to catch you enough to use their skills then. They cost cp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grosek_ Posted March 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I don't think anyone said that it takes an elite player to run away from another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greased Weasel Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I know the abilities, and they were used on me...a couple times in ones case yeah...still not overpowered But again, as MULTIPLE people have pointed out, take a look at the capture list obviously its not the cabal people are having problems with just skilled players Props to both Marty and Pominsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghrialton Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 If people are getting their asses kicked by Tribunals' date=' stop breaking the law. It's actually really simple.[/quote'] Don't you mean: If people are getting their asses kicked by Tribunals, stop making chaotic characters, or stop RP'ing your chaotic characters the way that is suggested by the helpfiles. It's actually really simple, and FL will be better off for it. Surely this is a more accurate representation of what will happen if people take your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 As you said - he lost a lot of lives getting zombies. That has nothing to do with his pk'ing power. And I believe he has been ganged some times' date=' which should not happen.[/quote'] The first part is part of being a necromancer. The second part is part of being a Tribunal. Again, those are all examples of 'intangibles' which all of you, in your theorizing, don't really take into account. And Ghrialton, you forgot two alternatives. Learn how to PK to beat them (and again, SKILLED players such as Mashik have, for the most part, been doing fine against most of the Tribunals), or learn to suck it up, just like a Knight has to suck it up when fighting against multiple skilled Nexus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghrialton Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Sorry. Those alternatives weren't listed in the "simple" post. It was just the "stop breaking the law" line that I re-interpreted. My beef is that it is a far from newbie-friendly setup. Learning how to beat them is fine, but it takes time to do so. A Knight won't have the threat of being outcast while fighting nexus. If following the helpfiles makes the game "not-fun", then what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greased Weasel Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 For those that are having trouble with tribunal I recomend this guide The Guide to End all your Woes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegel06 Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 well people will gang on a Tribunal or at least not let up by fighting one of them when either the criminal flees or the Tribunal does. So it is constant fighting for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grosek_ Posted March 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Course it goes both ways, for instance festys pally stuck in Gal Ranidon fighting one Trib after another. Its all up to what I consider the players pk ethics, in how fairly they prefer to treat other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I will agree the ability to give/take Outlaw flag is pretty harsh. Being an outlaw completely screws some classes, Necro being one of them. But i'm not debating that. the E****** skill I feel just lasts too long. Yeah if your winning its not a big deal, in fact its completely meaningless. But a lot of the time you can leave the area come back quickly and win. What if you ran out of vials? Crappy.. I won't say the duration because its probably too much info, but its pretty long for the effects. Or at least make it so its not a sure hit every time. Maybe AC dependant? Or Maledictive? The other savant-like one. It just seems very powerful. I'm not sure exactly what the restrictions are, but I have a pretty good idea. I just would like to see a little more lag from it, or maybe more mana cost? (Not completely sure what they are, just think they should be pretty high) The guard does seem pretty powerful. But this isn't anything new. I remember the hounds back in the day, they would tear my cleric to PIECES! They had what like 4 attacks a round? Hasted, sanced... These charmies have always been super hard for mage classes (Not battlemages) so maybe it should be looked at a little bit. I don't know how much HP the guards have, because I haven't fought one. But maybe take away their sanc? Any decent player can just put it back on the charmie, but its less of a guaranteed thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 The 'e' skill, as with all skills, is stronger in some cases, weaker in others. A certain Nexus skill, for example, is completely terrifying when combined with a skilled DK. Again, the 'e' skill is meaningless unless you can't beat them, and even then, for certain classes, such as cleric, it's not that useful. Furthermore, the exploit you are suggesting doesn't work, hands down. Especially considering that at present time, only two Tribunals have that skill, and only one actively uses it (Martineius), and not (that the IMM's have seen) in the way so many of you are suggesting (which, for the most part, isn't possible), I find it highly curious that you make complaints/hypothetical situations that simply don't occur. It makes me, as an IMM, question whether or not you aren't making up excuses for hypothetical situations that don't occur, as another rhetorical launching point for an attack at the system as a whole (and the 'you' is a general you). With regards to strength of cabal powers, personally, I feel that old school hound>current guards. Anyone who remembers them knows exactly why. If I were an Adjudicator, I can say with 100% certainty that I would prefer hounds over guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneak Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 EDIT: Im tired of arguing. IMM's told me they are fixinmg stuff with other aspects of the cabal systema nd I will just hope they know what they are doing and let them do their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayesh Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Don't you mean: If people are getting their asses kicked by Tribunals, stop making chaotic characters, or stop RP'ing your chaotic characters the way that is suggested by the helpfiles. It's actually really simple, and FL will be better off for it. Surely this is a more accurate representation of what will happen if people take your advice. No, I think he means if you are going to break laws, suck it up and take it like a "man". Accept the consequences of the RP you chose. If you can't take it, don't choose to be chaotic. I personally respect players with the balls to take them on, knowing it likely means a full tilt war whenever they logged on. I would think the players would prefer this sort of thing to sitting around inside their cabals trigger training spells and crap, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, nowhere in the help file does it say you have to attack Tribunals to be chaotic, nor that you must only be chaotic in the cities. We are talking about a total of 4 places (3 cities and the Tribunal Quarter) where your chaotic tendencies will get you the facepalm. What was suggested is that since you chose your own RP, accept it. Don't bitch and whine about it. It was your choice to have that ethos and your choice how you RP it. "Don't start nuttin', won't be nuttin'." - Will Smith, Men In Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomak Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I will end this post.Tribunals aren't overpowered,even if they are noone will really admit it,so we must just suck up and bite lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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