Tribunal Issues

[Sneak]

They were - but old school justice did not have vamps and necroes. And I believe we will see the same concerns from the players if a dark knight enters. Those classes are not meant to have a justice sentinel backing them up.

And getting ganged shouldnt have to be a part of beeing a Tribunal, like it shouldnt have to be a part of beeing anything else.

[Deykari]

It shouldn't but it is. I think one of the main reasons why Tribunals will get ganged (or even attacked by many people but not at the same time) is that the majority of criminals are independant. People will not know when someone else is attacking the Tribunal - they'll run in and attack perhaps, after the Tribunal is running from another, not knowing they've already been attacked by another criminal. Not only do you get organised gangs, but ones like the example above, where people don't know they're attacking someone who's being attacked.

I had my doubts at first, but I think that Tribunal are fine. Apart from that one skill I mentioned earlier, which I still think should only be usable in law-protected areas only. Other than that, dandy.

Dey

[Ex-D&Der]

I get it--I don't think it addresses the point. Repeating it, even repeating it in capital letters, doesn't make it address the point.

[Raargant]

If you don't think it addresses the point, that's your prerogative.

We do.

[Nekky]

If you're going to use the rationale that people should get more powerful skills because they're going to get ganged, why is it only Tribunal that are included in that? Any other cabal who gets ganged will be told,

"Suck it up, that's part of cabal life",

They won't be beefed up. Supposing one accepts that Tribunals are more likely to get ganged than any other cabal, even. That's only because they pretty much have a lisence to 'e' skill people and gang themselves, not only with their own members, but members of their clan as well.

If some group gets ganged a lot, I don't necessarily think they should be beefed up, as Sneak was saying. I think that although ganging is 'part of FL', the Imms should step in and put the hard word on repeat offenders instead.

[Raargant]

Tribunal and Justice has ALWAYS been the cabal that would be ganged, intentionally or not.

When a Nexus or a Knight logs on, he knows exactly who he will be fighting, more or less.

When a Tribunal logs on, hypothetically EVERY single person logged on they are going to have to fight.

Including, very often, the strongest PK'ers of every cabal, as those also tend to be the ones who fear the law the least.

Tribunal/Justice has the hardest job, against the most people, and the best PK'ers, and hence, they have the strongest skills.

[Sneak]

When Im in Nexus or Syndicate, or Watcher I fight just as many people as with my Justice

[spiegel06]

I am sorry I highly doubt that. Many times I see tribunal fight one person (criminal A) then when Trib fless/Criminal A flees they get attacked by someone who is not a criminal because that person does not like the trib. They are meant to fight criminals and wanted outlaws so if you are not one of those they are at a disadvantage (they can not use skills).

Also if they are to overpowered how come Ceqia has like 4 captures. Now they do work like a team and that is how they are supposed to do, just like a team of cops. I have to hand it to most of the Tribunals because they go through alot of hassle IG and stuff.

[Goomf]

Tribunal and Justice has ALWAYS been the cabal that would be ganged, intentionally or not.

When a Nexus or a Knight logs on, he knows exactly who he will be fighting, more or less.

When a Tribunal logs on, hypothetically EVERY single person logged on they are going to have to fight.

Including, very often, the strongest PK'ers of every cabal, as those also tend to be the ones who fear the law the least.

Tribunal/Justice has the hardest job, against the most people, and the best PK'ers, and hence, they have the strongest skills.

You know, I seem to recall in another post you mentioning not using hypothetical situations, especially if those situations are not going to happen (ie every single character being wanted).

Tribunals/justices may have the hardest job (hypothetically) against the most people (hypothetically) and against the best pkers (hypothetically).

You see where I'm going with this?

Let's introduce facts. Tribunals apparently have this radical skill that nearly everyone in the pbase considers overpowered. To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) you're defending against what they state through hypothetical situations. What about syndicates? Similar to tribunals, they are mostly required to go after marked people. They also don't have the option of having an entire city as their bodyguards or making a permanent damnation on someone.

Of course, this is the point where it is stated 'if you don't want to be wanted, don't commit the crime.' The situation is regarding what happens after you get wanted...THAT'S the question. Not if you want to get wanted or not. It's not a hypothetical situation.

[Raargant]

"You know, I seem to recall in another post you mentioning not using hypothetical situations, especially if those situations are not going to happen (ie every single character being wanted).

Tribunals/justices may have the hardest job (hypothetically) against the most people (hypothetically) and against the best pkers (hypothetically)."

This isn't hypothetical. This is fact. I don't think anyone who has been watching Justice, as a cabal, as well as Tribunal, as a cabal, can disagree with this.

"Let's introduce facts. Tribunals apparently have this radical skill that nearly everyone in the pbase considers overpowered. To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) you're defending against what they state through hypothetical situations. What about syndicates? Similar to tribunals, they are mostly required to go after marked people. They also don't have the option of having an entire city as their bodyguards or making a permanent damnation on someone."

Again, NOT hypothetical situations. From watching the Tribunals die in droves, and keep in mind I was JUSTICE IMM as well, it's not hypothetical. And, as well, remember. We know exactly what player plays what characters, and we very much well know exactly how often skilled players choose to be lawful.

Furthermore, if you will recall, some time ago Syndicate was declared to be an 'overpowered' cabal for reasons very similar.

With regards to the Tribunal skill in question, it's more useful for some classes, less useful for others, and this one is ONLY useful (even at max class usefulness) if you can't beat the Tribunal in the first place, and even then, as I said, from classes to classes it varies. And EVEN THEN, for the most part, it is IDENTICAL to a skill Justice had, except it can be used on more people.

Tribunal is NOT overpowered.

[Mudder]

I agree Tribs are not overpowered.

Though I think one skill needs toning.

Another needs possible toning, I don't know enough about it to debate that though so I will drop it.

My one gripe is that the "e" skill has too long of a duration for how easy it lands. Thats it. Possibly I agree that it should only work in lawful cities. Mostly because of the message you get. Or perhaps make it affect the Trib aswell, so its more dangerous for both parties and will be used sparingly, but then thats just unfair to the tribs.

People, you are debating the wrong things. Don't say, Tribs need to lose all their abilities because they are overpowered. Thats not going to change. Though certain tonings are possible and if you have a decent argument they may listen.

[delfytheelfy]

Edit.

[Raargant]

That's BS and insulting to Mashik as a player.

[delfytheelfy]

Edit.

[Raargant]

We're not going to discuss your character in detail, as it's against forum rules, but if you are who I believe you are, well...

It's only to be expected considering the choices you made.

[delfytheelfy]

Edit.

[Raargant]

Eh, both Eshaine and I have watched Mashik fight Martineius plenty of times.

[delfytheelfy]

Edit.

[Nomak]

I am sorry I highly doubt that. Many times I see tribunal fight one person (criminal A) then when Trib fless/Criminal A flees they get attacked by someone who is not a criminal because that person does not like the trib. They are meant to fight criminals and wanted outlaws so if you are not one of those they are at a disadvantage (they can not use skills).

Also if they are to overpowered how come Ceqia has like 4 captures. Now they do work like a team and that is how they are supposed to do, just like a team of cops. I have to hand it to most of the Tribunals because they go through alot of hassle IG and stuff.

I am sorry but this can happen with every single cabal,I have fought a person and another one charges at my back,this has happened to me thousand times in any cabal.I tell you those who think that Tribunal isn't overpowered are playing a Tribunal.I log in and I am outlaw,I get "e" skill casted on me and I run away in the area waiting it to wear off,then he casts it again another one just on the hour?Wtf is that man?I wait six hours for it to wear off then he casts it again.Wtf are my chances of running? FLAME DELETED.

[Ex-D&Der]

Personally I think the e skill should only work in town.

[Nomak]

Furthermore, if you will recall, some time ago Syndicate was declared to be an 'overpowered' cabal for reasons very similar.

With regards to the Tribunal skill in question, it's more useful for some classes, less useful for others, and this one is ONLY useful (even at max class usefulness) if you can't beat the Tribunal in the first place, and even then, as I said, from classes to classes it varies. And EVEN THEN, for the most part, it is IDENTICAL to a skill Justice had, except it can be used on more people.

Tribunal is NOT overpowered.

First of all man,Syndicates has to be overpowered,they have dedicated their lives of collecting heads and martial arts.But tell me who the **** are tribunals,where from they have came,where from they have such skills,how they have conquered the cities?Noone knows this answeres but...Tribunals come and poof,they control the cities and make some kind of **** laws.Make the cabal more realistic please,it is full with bugs,it doesn't have any help file still,and there wasn't any RP from where it came.

Second thing man,if you remember correctly a long time ago many people were complaining about shamans.Imm's said that everything is okay and did no change to them.Then one man named Shendamarin tried to prove that a shaman can be unstoppable,then tell me what happened?You made that maledictive saves gear and at last agreed with the playerbase that they were overpowered.Now with Tribunal it is the same guys,people playing 10 hours a day keep telling you that it is overpowered but you don't give a **** about their oppinions.What do you want at least?Somebody to roll a sick kick *** character again,join Tribunal and everyone quit playing?

[Chayesh]

I am sorry but this can happen with every single cabal' date='I have fought a person and another one charges at my back,this has happened to me thousand times in any cabal.I tell you those who think that Tribunal isn't overpowered are playing a Tribunal.I log in and I am outlaw,I get "e" skill casted on me and I run away in the area waiting it to wear off,then he casts it again another one just on the hour?Wtf is that man?I wait six hours for it to wear off then he casts it again.Wtf are my chances of running? FLAME DELETED.

You need to calm down. Another flame like that and you can have a 10 day forum ban to think about how you talk about other players.

[Raargant]

With regards to your post (see what I meant, Tater, about me and Chayesh being the forum junkies of the IMM staff?), it's completely incorrect.

"First of all man,Syndicates has to be overpowered,they have dedicated their lives of collecting heads and martial arts.But tell me who the **** are tribunals,where from they have came,where from they have such skills,how they have conquered the cities?Noone knows this answeres but...Tribunals come and poof,they control the cities and make some kind of **** laws.Make the cabal more realistic please,it is full with bugs,it doesn't have any help file still,and there wasn't any RP from where it came."

COMPLETELY wrong. Tribunal, as of now, is the ONLY cabal whose creation and formation was RP'd (as opposed to Syndicate, which just poofed in out of nowhere with a history that was, basically, an IMM sitting down and writing for 5-10 minutes), from the formation of the Militia, to the formation of Tribunal having ownership just of Rheydin, to the Tribunal reasserting the powers of law over Val Miran and Miruvhor. They are the combined force of left over royals from the old Noble system, who govern, and the remnants of the Justice, which banded together and reformed.

Everyone knows these answers. Everyone that actually pays attention to IG RP events, that is.

"Second thing man,if you remember correctly a long time ago many people were complaining about shamans.Imm's said that everything is okay and did no change to them.Then one man named Shendamarin tried to prove that a shaman can be unstoppable,then tell me what happened?You made that maledictive saves gear and at last agreed with the playerbase that they were overpowered.Now with Tribunal it is the same guys,people playing 10 hours a day keep telling you that it is overpowered but you don't give a **** about their oppinions.What do you want at least?Somebody to roll a sick kick *** character again,join Tribunal and everyone quit playing?"

Again, this is completely incorrect. Shendamarin was a shaman played by Despiser. Ivlizik is the shaman you are referring to, played by Chueh/Braveheartz/Tor.

During Ivlizik, there was no change to shamans; maledictive saves, and all saves, actually decreased before Ivlizik was made. Even then and before, skilled players such as Onileon found ways to defeat Izlivik, and this was at a time when zombies did not stay past log out. When some maledictive saves were re-added, it was balancing a previous change, not a new one based on IMM ignoring of mort complaints.

During Shendamarin, in direct response to shaman complaints, Virigoth personally went through a list of equipment and increased their svs mal, while also toning up several shamanic spells, including deteriorate and phantom grasp and others.

In addition, I also remember people complaining about every class in the game at some point in time. You, yourself, have complained, out of all things, about DEMON WARRIORS. Hardly a terrifying overpowered type of combination.

Quite frankly, every single time people like you make a spurious post about everything that beats you (such as demon warriors), it detracts from the attention we pay to the next post.

And every time people like you make completely incorrect and false posts like the one on this thread, combined with flaming, it makes us want that much more to simply ignore the rest of the posters as well.

[Sirax]

I think Tribs are fine, having played a few characters that have gone up against them I have triumphed and failed. The only thing I found greatly annoying was the fact that if you were caught and executed or killed you could commit a crime and get done for your past misdemenors (sp?) This was disheartening when a certain tribunal put a wanted flag on me for not sheathing and executed I was. Wouldnt it be more fair if when you died your criminal past died also.

Other than that I think tribs are fine, they receive the most crap from any cabal, in the early days every one of them would get ganged, I saw Cyndion one day fighting three different characters, none of which were outlaws or cabaled. I think people have to understand Aabahran has changed from the wild west to the mild mannered west, order has come to stay.

[Raargant]

The only thing I found greatly annoying was the fact that if you were caught and executed or killed you could commit a crime and get done for your past misdemenors (sp?) This was disheartening when a certain tribunal put a wanted flag on me for not sheathing and executed I was. Wouldnt it be more fair if when you died your criminal past died also.

Are you saying, you were captured, executed, didn't commit any crimes, marked wanted for committing a 'minor' crime, but was flagged for crimes you had committed pre-execution?

If so, that sounds like a definite bug to me. It may be related to another Tribunal-related execution bug that we've heard of.