AC and Bash/Bodyslam

[kaboomer]

Does higher AC help you avoid the bash completely in that it misses or does it help reduce the amount of lag if it actually does hit you? Or both?

[Reccum]

I don't think AC affects lag time, but I could be wrong.

[mya]

AC helps you "save" vs a bash.

Meaning that the lower your AC (it's negative, remember) the better the chance you have to evade it.

It does not, in my opinion reduces the Lag.

For me this is mostly affected by RL Luck and Size.

As in a Giant vs a Halfling -> can get you lagged for 4 rounds.

Viri once said that he limited Bash lag to 4 rounds. Cause Halflings complained that they had time to drink some cofe every time they got bashed.

PS: I also recall that they changed Max proficiency to 110% top. Something about Fire Giants walking around with 110+% bash.

So if you can reduce their proficiency, you probably can also increase your chances to avoid bashes.

[jibber]

Also, bodyslams are more 'easily' avoided. With all of my ogre berserkers, and demon berserker, I always missed bodyslam 2 out of 5 or 6 times. It was really weird.

Bashes however seem to land a LOT more frequently. But on FG's bodyslams it seemed to land a lot more often and I hardly ever missed. This could be complete luck against me considering who I fought at what times.. but it seemed far to coincidental to be anything but obvious results. 100% bodyslam is never 100% guaranteed, ever, and you WILL miss a bodyslam on just about every opponent you fight. Promised.

But yeah, -AC is kind of like -MAL for blindness/blasphemy, the more you have, the harder it is to bash.

[KRins]

I tend to think of bodyslam like a sawed off shotgun. God help you if it hits...but not even a sniper can guarantee it. Bash has always struck me as a little more controlled (can we consider throwing yourself into someone controlled?) but a little less lagging. That might just be in my head completely though...

[Kyzarius]

I noticed at -600, many abilities (including dirt kicking) seem to miss a ton more against a cleric. Though luck does play a major part I think. Protective shield, however, is almost always in place so no way to measure bashes. Not willing to try either heh.

I geuss my point is the classes that can easily obtain the AC #'s neccesary to significantly achieve consistant avoidance dont need it for bash since they can counter lag attacks some other way.

[f0xx]

Does higher AC help you avoid the bash completely in that it misses

Yes.

...or does it help reduce the amount of lag if it actually does hit you? Or both?

For what I know, it doesn't.

Jibber gave the best example:

-AC is kind of like -MAL for blindness/blasphemy' date=' the more you have, the harder it is to bash.[/quote']

[kaboomer]

Thanks for the input. I asked because I noticed full on enlarged bashes don't lag the full two rounds many times against higher dex races.

Drows.

[KRins]

Well...even enlarged, drows aren't exactly stocky dudes. The fact that elves/drow are human sized bothers me anyway. I mean... yeah they have the right height...but weight should be considerably in favor of the human. Would you rather get tackled by a ballerina or a linebacker?

[kaboomer]

I'm referring to a giant race bashing Drows. Can't manage to lag lately.

[KRins]

Oh! Is it a monk/blm balancing? Do they just look AC decked to all hell? I'm pretty sure you would notice if they using protective shield/force field. Honestly...if you connect with a bash and they balanced, it would give you a different message then a normal bash against a non-balancer. Check the bash message or log if it is too heated in the actual fight and I'm sure you'll find out what is bugging you.

[H&R]

I actually think better AC reduces lag time a bit as well. Can't prove it though. But I remember it wasn't that easy to lag-lock halflings (high AC) with Masokant. Even harder than some other races.

[jibber]

I don't know if it reduces lag either, hence why I didn't comment on that particular issue. An imm will have to intervene regarding that.

[jibber]

Oh, and FWIW, drow really need a vuln that's exploitable with a weapon..

[kaboomer]

Do mithril weapons hurt them any extra?

[H&R]

Only if you throw them. Which only a few classes can.

[Grishnak]

Only if you throw them. Which only a few classes can.

But oh is it beautiful when you can.

[mya]

Oh' date=' and FWIW, drow really need a vuln that's exploitable with a weapon..[/quote']

My 16 con, 500xp penalty and base HP's say otherwise.

[H&R]

Oh' date=' and FWIW, drow really need a vuln that's exploitable with a weapon..[/quote']

I think it's only drow clerics and drow shamans that really fit right in the glove with their high mana, high AC and autosneak. Not sure what could or should be done though, if anything..

[mya]

You guys need to get more saves. Clerics/Shamans can't fight Saves.

[f0xx]

You guys need to get more saves. Clerics/Shamans can't fight Saves.

They can't?

Deteriorate? Curse? Phantom grasp?

[Kyzarius]

Mya you really should stop hinting that clerics need a buff heh.

[Twinblades713]

Give clerics hellstream and there will be a problem with it having too much lag. Invokers don't have to pay 2 rounds to cast hellstream!

[Twinblades713]

They can't?

Deteriorate? Curse? Phantom grasp?

It's funny, because this is THE class that can really fight any amount of saves, with patience.

[mya]

They can't?

Deteriorate? Curse? Phantom grasp?

Get 80-90 saves vs malediction, then come tell me which shaman killed you.