BMG's & Magic Missile

[Mmm Coffee]

BMG's received a few major nerfs to reflective field over the past few years: First, reflected damage was toned. Second, no more magic dmg reflection. Third, reduction in bash-lag protection (this really hurts small races). All together, these changes have dramatically reduced this spell's effectiveness...especially for small races.

As a BMG, you have no way of reducing your opponent's saves or reliably keeping them in combat. Undead aside, you rely on being able to stay in a fight long enough to land a couple critical spells which make it hard for your opponent to run. However, two of those spells have 2-round lags and are very difficult to land...meaning you often don't get a chance to land them. What I'm seeing from the few BMG's around now is an outright dependence on damage (spamming colour spray or sharpmetal for example).

I think replacing the Shocking Grasp spell, which is useless, with Magic Missile would perfectly balance this class, given the RF changes. You would have two spells that require multiple castings (rust and MM) for full benefit. A chance to reduce saves means you aren't completely counting on luck of the dice while wasting 2-rounds per cast for shrink/slow...while at the same time getting eaten up by magic weapons. This would now create a tactical approach vs the different classes out there capable of higher saves instead of, again, just relying on damage output from the start.

What do the rest of you think?

[mya]

I cannot recall any 2 round spell from a BMG. They are all 1 or 1.5 rounds.

Small races means that you are a faerie which is smaller than an Halfling.

Meaning that you are Halfling size (small) when using reflective shield and Enlarged.

I would never use reflective shield in this conditions vs any class that can bash/Bodyslam lag. Not even a Monk.

But I agree with you that Shocking Grasp is useless. It need a Chill Touch buff. Make it hit DEX.

Try to open combat with Thunderclap, or Sear. Thunderclap will make them run stupid and Sear is god Blind.

[H&R]

Welcome back

BMGs are pretty buff even with the reflective field change. And their melee output is good enough to rather open with murder than with a spell. The only problem is making sure you keep all your spells up. That being said, I don't see how gaining magic missile is in any way overpowered.

[Mmm Coffee]

I've sorta been back for a couple months. I can honestly say the addiction is no longer there...I login 2-3 times/week to kill time at work

@ Mya: Shrink and Slow are both 2-round lag.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

Thunderclap will make them run stupid.

very silly to think that

[mya]

I've sorta been back for a couple months. I can honestly say the addiction is no longer there...I login 2-3 times/week to kill time at work

@ Mya: Shrink and Slow are both 2-round lag.

1.5 just like Holy Wrath.

[f0xx]

You don't seem to have much experience with BMGs

That being said, I think magic missle would suit BMGs better than shocking grasp, without making them too powerful.

[Evangelion]

Battlemages really don't need anything else.

[Grishnak]

BMGs are currently one of the strongest classes in the game.

Please don't give them anything else.

[Mmm Coffee]

You don't seem to have much experience with BMGs

Nhaudamiel, avian bmg - Watcher T (300 hours)

Trinevyr, avian bmg - Savant T (200+ hours)

Kharendos, undead bmg - Nexus T (300+ hours)

Devinnah, elf bmg - Knight T (200-300 hours)

Sileeann, elf bmg - Tribunal V (shortest lived)

It's my favorite class to play. I'm not saying there's necessarily anything *wrong* with them now...I'm just saying they had a few major nerfs to the spell which is supposed to be the peak of their power and didn't get anything in return except to cancel manalock.

[tassinvegeta]

Nhaudamiel, avian bmg - Watcher T (300 hours)

Trinevyr, avian bmg - Savant T (200+ hours)

Kharendos, undead bmg - Nexus T (300+ hours)

Devinnah, elf bmg - Knight T (200-300 hours)

Sileeann, elf bmg - Tribunal V (shortest lived)

Whoa, I remember Trinevyr and Devinnah. Those guys were beastly. But yeah I know what you mean. But even with the nerfs they are still one of the most powerful classes in the game. Even with the changes they've received up till now they are still able to hit you in any area where you might have a weakness i.e. aff/mal/mental or lack of hit/dam. I personally think that magic missile would be too much when they already excel in every area of attack. Bmgs are afterall supposed to have some weakness to other classes.

[Grishnak]

Whoa' date=' I remember Trinevyr and Devinnah. Those guys were beastly. But yeah I know what you mean. But even with the nerfs they are still one of the most powerful classes in the game. Even with the changes they've received up till now they are still able to hit you in any area where you might have a weakness i.e. aff/mal/mental or lack of hit/dam. I personally think that magic missile would be too much when they already excel in every area of attack. Bmgs are afterall supposed to have some weakness to other classes.[/quote']

I can't for the life of me figure out what that weakness is, and haven't been able to in over a decade. Grumble.

[tassinvegeta]

The way I see it is that each of a bmgs spells are just normal spells. They aren't overly powerful and don't increase in power or success of landing with the more svs you have or other contributing factors (i.e. path, ice storm, deteriorate). So if you have a high number of saves they pretty much can't touch you. High ac can be seen as a weakness and can be taken advantage of with lightning based attacks. There offense seems to be fixed regardless of which classes they may be up against. This is usually taken advantage of by mages that are used to soaking up much more damage they a bmg can dish out against them. Again these are just my opinions that I've gathered over the years, maybe it'll help someone.

[spiegel06]

how? I had a bmg rilyth and was decked with all spells of bmg had around 400-500 ac and 20-30 accross in saves and still got owned. I don't know how you people do it I like but never seem to do well with them.

[Kyzarius]

A well played cleric / shaman can really shut a bmg down.

The nature of their upkeep can really put them in a sensitive spot during a long fight.

[f0xx]

A well played cleric / shaman can really shut a bmg down.

The nature of their upkeep can really put them in a sensitive spot during a long fight.

A shaman is the bane of a BMG.

Although, a smart BMG can shut a shaman quite well too

On this note, my decked powerhouse BLM was killed by a BMG with a race in which I had a mastery.

Dirty swedish bastard...

[The-Nameless]

As a BMG' date=' you have no way of reducing your opponent's saves or reliably keeping them in combat. [/quote']

I guess you have not done a bmg in a while so your a bit RUSTy. Bmgs can reliably reduce saves AND hit/dam

Not sure if it is taboo, I do not think it is, but bmgs are able to cause lag as well via Dancing blade leg swiping.

I really think Rust stacked on top of magic missile would just be too much. -9 for rust, and what -10? for magic missile? Thats just tooooooo much. Considering they have the best defense of any mage, have high damage affl spells, the ability to cause long blindness, as well as healing potential that is literally unrivaled. I think BMGs are good how they are honestly, any additions to their arsenal would tip the scales heavily.

Reflective was not nerfed, it was fixed. It never should have charged on magic damage anyway.

[f0xx]

On that subject, I've never seen rust decrease saves.

Just hit/dam and AC.

[Cephirus]

Only played one BMG, but rust does not affect saves, it did not then. BMG's really are not about weakening your opponents saves to affect them with spells, like a shaman. To be honest, I think giving them Magic Missile might be giving them too much. They are about defeating your opponent through melee combat and direct damage spells. Having fought an undead BMG, there are certainly some additional benefits gotten there that can make a BMG a very difficult opponent. Outside of that, BMG's are awesome, not sure they really need to be toned.

[H&R]

Haha foxx. Try again in the other thread

[f0xx]

Haha foxx. Try again in the other thread

Ops...

[Mmm Coffee]

I challenge people to play a BMG (especially a goodie one). You will find that there are exceptional challenges you must overcome. This challenge is what I like about the class. What I dislike is a level 50 spell that was once the power-peak of the class reduced to almost ineffectiveness.

Long story short, a BMG relies completely on chasing for any kill. Therefore, they have mals for a reason. It was one thing when RF helped mitigate a small portion of bash-lag and also reflected a portion of magic damage...then you could stay in battle a few extra rounds and try to land the mals because at least you were dishing out some damage and not being totally lagged.

As it is now, RF offers almost no bash protection and absolutely no magic damage reflection making the spell pretty much useless except for against a few classes or the rare non-giant melee. So, if RF is going to remain as it is and BMGs are going to be forced to use Force Field more often, I think they should have some sort of non-overpowering compensation to make up for the extra HP they will be losing coupled with lack of damage output from no RF.

There are a few options I can think of besides magic-missile:

1) Make it so Thunderclap is not so easily circumvented

2) Make either slow or shrink (not both) 1 round of lag instead of 2

3) Make the blind effect from sear = 2 hour firebreath instead

4) Give back the old lag protection and small magic reflection from RF

5) Make colour spray's damage more consistent

...or just keep things as they are. It's still a very fun class but really, nobody should ever die to a BMG with the current limitations they have.

[Mmm Coffee]

Double post

[mya]

1) Make it so Thunderclap is not so easily circumvented (Make it random)

2) Make either slow or shrink (not both) 1 round of lag instead of 2 (SLOW)

3) Make the blind effect from sear = 2 hour firebreath instead (NO CHANGE!!!)

4) Give back the old lag protection and small magic reflection from RF (???)

5) Make colour spray's damage more consistent (Better tone up lightning-bolt)

Do not change SEAR Blind to Firebreath. That is an actual DOWNing.

[KRins]

Wow... I wasn't aware a completely uncurable blind was somehow worse than a blind you can counter in about...5 different ways I was able to come up with before I finished chewing a bite of sandwich. Lightning bolt being toned up would not only affect BMGs and quite honestly... it isn't a terribly useful spell. I'd rather sharpmetal, rust, flashfire, colour spray, or friggin kick...