Event Proposal (Moved from IMM Only)

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

I really think a monthly even is a great idea. In FL it could represent changing seasons, good crops, bad crops, anniversary of some date etc. These could be test of arms, magic "tests", History contests, poetry, song and dance etc.

I really think that would appeal to almost all types of FL players. In the PK section I suggest a "gladiator" style suit. Just build a 12x12 or 20x20 grid-type map with varying terrain types. Give players access to different suits of arena gear (I would put it on par with a typical re-equip suit for pinn melee.) Giving them a choice between hitting hard, hitting often, or a mix. Would work in a manner similar to current arena, where as a "crowd" decides live/die. I think maybe something special for the winner of each specific event not sure what a good set of rewards would be. Could be a lump of CP, gold, a small hp/mana boost so on and so fourth. Maybe titles too, I do not care what anyone says, seeinbg 2-4 players online with badass titles is great to see.

Count me out.

[Sandbox]

I do hope this helps resolve the issue of "cowardice" in game as well. I find it disheartening the cycle that plays out whenever I have a succesful PK toon. You reach your power peak..then...the game gets reallll boring since EVERYONE runs away or logs out when you come around.

I've been guilty of this in the past, especially with people like Philantees and Khurvikel. I don't really see the point in fighting them and taking a death when i know theres a 90% chance I'm going to die. Might as well just log out and do something else until they go away. You cant speak in game because they will find you and you can't really do anything else but prepare for combat with that person. It makes the game incredibly stale for everyone else to be logged in because they know a death is coming and they have to drop everything they were doing.. rp/pk etc just because the person is online and most likely hunting people down. Philantees would often kill me and take my weapons, no big deal right? it is when your a melee struggling to find a decent rare weapon to begin with facing a slew of other people.

Moral of the story... I don't play Texas Hold'em with Johnny Chan because i know he will take my hard earned paycheck in minutes. My paycheck means nothing to him.. NOTHING, but its everything to me and well I'm just not as good at poker as him so I avoid playing him when he sits down at the local Casino. I will continue to do that until I am as good as him or one of us passes away. I'm all for the spirit of competition a close fight is AMAZING, but I refuse to stay logged in and loose what I worked hard for when its completely one sided just for someone elses entertainment. If i wanted to get ganked and feel like a noob and complete idiot for logging in there are plenty of games i can go to and get that feeling.

edit: I will say that person could be A LOT meaner and full loot and they don't which I find classy, just trying to give you an idea on what it looks like from the other side of that looking glass because I'm sure it really is boring for you when this happens.

[The-Nameless]

I don't really see the point in fighting them and taking a death when i know theres a 90% chance I'm going to die.

I will continue to do that until I am as good as him or one of us passes away.

It is this attitude that prevents you from getting better. It is this attitude that is restricting your growth. You know my first invoker I condeathed in 180 hours. CONDEATH. First warrio? Condeathed before I ever got V in nexus. I died so fast because I fearlessly assaulted everyone I possibly could where applicable. I know MF, Festy, Despiser etc where/are better than I am. But I keep fighting them when I can/could. Why? You may think there is a 90% chance to die, I think there is a 10% chance of a win. So what if you lose a pile of gear. I don't care how good, or what type of suit you have. EVERYONE loses it. Everyone. If you rely on gear to determine your ability, start making moderate because that is all you will ever be Sandbox. I am not saying this to be mean. You do not get the heavyweight belt by running out of the ring. There is not a single class that does not have a chance vs another class. Sure it may be tough, but the feeling you get when FINISH THEM! appears is worth the risk of losing shinies. 90% of the vets here do not get gear by doing trips, we will get gear by pking you. Who went and spent 10 hours getting a suit together.

[Sandbox]

It is this attitude that prevents you from getting better. It is this attitude that is restricting your growth. You know my first invoker I condeathed in 180 hours. CONDEATH. First warrio? Condeathed before I ever got V in nexus. I died so fast because I fearlessly assaulted everyone I possibly could where applicable. I know MF' date=' Festy, Despiser etc where/are better than I am. But I keep fighting them when I can/could. Why? You may think there is a 90% chance to die, I think there is a 10% chance of a win. So what if you lose a pile of gear. I don't care how good, or what type of suit you have. EVERYONE loses it. Everyone. If you rely on gear to determine your ability, start making moderate because that is all you will ever be Sandbox. I am not saying this to be mean. You do not get the heavyweight belt by running out of the ring. There is not a single class that does not have a chance vs another class. Sure it may be tough, but the feeling you get when FINISH THEM! appears is worth the risk of losing shinies. 90% of the vets here do not get gear by doing trips, we will get gear by pking you. Who went and spent 10 hours getting a suit together.[/quote']

You also don't get the heavyweight title by joining a boxing league then challenging the champion the next day. That's how you get seriously injured and give up boxing forever. You fight people of equal skill or people who are a bit better than you till you can hang with them and you work your way up. Atleast this is the way I have approached it here and everywhere else in life.

[The-Nameless]

You also don't get the heavyweight title by joining a boxing league then challenging the champion the next day. That's how you get seriously injured and give up boxing forever. You fight people of equal skill or people who are a bit better than you till you can hang with them and you work your way up. Atleast this is the way I have approached it here and everywhere else in life.

Yes, actually you can get the belt that way. Look at Brock Lesnar. He got into UFC and was instantly in title contetion, and is one of the most televised/celebrated HWs in recent years. I personally hate him, but that is because of his blatant lack of respect for the sport. Physically he is about as imposing as in incoming SCUD missile.

You can justify it how you won't, but your only as good as your competition.

You will never kick *** at a first person shooter by having it set on easy/normal. Turn it up to hard, scrap some hours towards getting good, then you can start being OP too.

How many years have you been here Sandbox?

[Zavero]

Well said The-Nameless. I never went to gear, winter, or any of the high level rare areas. I spend all my time killing level 50's and taking nice equipment. It sucks losing especially after you spend hours and hours on training but honestly it is the only way you will get better.... Or...

You can have events like Halloween madness to run around and try everything. Events like this make it easier to learn because you have no fear of consequences of losing your gear. So you can go all out and see what happens.

[f0xx]

It is this attitude that prevents you from getting better. It is this attitude that is restricting your growth.

That is absolutely not true.

Only a person who has long passed the stage of being a newb can say something like that.

But SandBox gave a nice reply, and again Nameless you are completely wrong with your comparison with UFC or whatever sport.

This is not some sport and you will NOT do well here unless you have spent YEARS of playing mud games and FL. Your advice to stay and fight characters like Philly and Kurvi (for the sake of learning) is just dumb (sorry for the offensive word). If you are a newbie you wont learn anything from such fights. The only thing you learn is how much you suck. How good they are. How miserable you are. And we don't want that.

That is why warmaster is the best cabal for a learner. People won't worry for their gear and you can actually have friendly fights. I would strongly recommend that to any newbie. Too bad the first stages of that cabal are so rough. But that's another point.

Even a wrong action is better than no action. I am willing to give ANYTHING a try. Anything that seems reasonable that is. And this looks good enough. Sadly, the only change that is going to work for me is if someone can make it so I don't need to sleep. Those 4-5 hours can be spent much better mudding...

[The-Nameless]

That is absolutely not true.

Only a person who has long passed the stage of being a newb can say something like that.

But SandBox gave a nice reply, and again Nameless you are completely wrong with your comparison with UFC or whatever sport.

This is not some sport and you will NOT do well here unless you have spent YEARS of playing mud games and FL. Your advice to stay and fight characters like Philly and Kurvi (for the sake of learning) is just dumb (sorry for the offensive word). If you are a newbie you wont learn anything from such fights. The only thing you learn is how much you suck. How good they are. How miserable you are. And we don't want that.

That is why warmaster is the best cabal for a learner. People won't worry for their gear and you can actually have friendly fights. I would strongly recommend that to any newbie. Too bad the first stages of that cabal are so rough. But that's another point.

Even a wrong action is better than no action. I am willing to give ANYTHING a try. Anything that seems reasonable that is. And this looks good enough. Sadly, the only change that is going to work for me if someone can make it so I don't need to sleep. Those 4-5 hours can be spent much better mudding...

Please explain klemkin? He was very new to FL, came here and was not scared of a single one of us. At first he was getting beat on because he would fight constantly. Klemkin was a surprisingly adept PKer considering he spent almost no time here. You get better based on how you train up, and who you fight. Dirt/charging a newbish caster might get you a win vs that caster, but that strategy will fall to bits fighting most vets.

If your training for MMA, you go to a camp with big name fighters.

If your training to be a driver, you go to a driving school with big drivers.

You do not become a champion by fighting people who are not even in contention. You get better by fighting people that are better, thats it. You cannot rely on tactics that you learn while fighting a newbie/person of similar skill. All you do is ensure your key abilities work. DIspel hellstream won't work on a vet, it will work on a newb. Fighting a newbie as a shaman is cake. Blind, mals, wait for death. Fighting a vet you learn that landing all the big guns off the rip is actually bad for you, as it usually causes a flee.

[The-Nameless]

Also as a side note. My first WM blm was a human, and I beat Marti in a duel to the stun after losing about 10 fights. Why? Each time he steam rolled me, but I learned one of his neat tricks to be ready for. It finally came to a point that he had no more tricks left, and i was able to pull a win because I spent over a month dying to marti, granted my char died off fast, was not too memorable, and made no huge impact. I was pleased. I was able to learn what to do, how to do it, and I am better for it.

We all can't roll dwarf blms.

[f0xx]

We all can't roll dwarf blms.

What does this have to do with the topic at all? You seem a bit bitter...

Also, Klemkin is not a good example, since he isn't new to mud games at all, and he has spent a few years playing FL too, so he wasn't really a newbie.

I won't argue, the vet players will tell the new players that they will never learn if they keep logging out just because they are tired of everyone logging out when they log in. If you see many people log out when you log in, perhaps you should look for something wrong in your playstyle (the last one is not aimed at you nameless).

Can we get back to topic now please?

[The-Nameless]

this was on topic. He said he did not want it because of this cycle. I am trying to show him that he gets better by fighting people that are better. The dwarf blm thing was a joke btw f0xx. You DO get better by fighting stronger people. I dunno who explained to you how to train, but you get better by tangling with people who are better. That is why the same few fight camps always produce top fighters. They have better competition, therefor harder sparring, and produce better fighters. That is how it works. If you learn to drive with old people, you will drive like old people. If you learn to drive with rally drivers, you will be a better driver than if you had with old folks. That is not opinion, that is fact f0xx. Maybe the Balkans do it your way (which explains ALOT ) but I cannot see how you advance if your not challenging yourself to be better. If your OK beating people of your skill level, then stay that way, but I do not think that we should limit things that lean more towards pk strictly based on the fact that people are afraid of losing.

[Anume]

Each to their own.

Back on topic.

[Cephirus]

So to ensure that I am understanding this correctly, I am going to phrase what is going to occur as I perceive it, and one of the moderators can tell me if I am correct.

There will be a special event held (a one time thing that may lead to others?) where it will be temporarily (meaning just during this event) all characters will have a form of life-insurance, where if they die, the other character would be able to take up to three rare items, no more. That sound about right?

If I got all of that correct, I think it is a great idea. Now would this go along with a celebratory day where our characters would be inaccessible and everyone can essentially make a 50, or would this be an event with characters we have rolled and leveled?

[Reccum]

Newer players complain that they spend countless hours ranking and training and then doing trips all to lose hard and fast. The vet answer I am seeing here is "I don't go on trips, I pk YOU for the eq." That WILL lose us players faster than anything.

It takes me 30-60 hours to pinn and fully train a character. I consider myself pretty fast at it. How long will it take a new player? I can do several high end areas solo or in a small group because of my experience, a new player will die fast out there without guidance. It took me a long time to learn the areas because I did not have the confidence to lead a party out there and most of my experiences in groups went by so fast I didn't really learn anything about the layout of these places. I was also lazy and over the years I did not save my identifies to a file somewhere (If I had my database of eq would be pimped out).

So what am I getting at here? The current gain:loss ratio for the average player in this game is not worth it. Who besides a complete glutton for punishment is going to invest hours in gaining anything when it is taken away from them in 5 minutes. Even many veterans get bummed and drop characters after crappy interactions or unecessary full loots and lose interest, so imagine how the poor noobie feels.

I agree with the Nameless in that without standing up to the big guns, you won't improve. But Sandbox is also right that many times it feels completely hopeless, even if they "loot you gently".

I tried to start a thread about what would keep peoples interest in their character and actually give them incentive to condie. My suggestions were shot down and noone gave any of their own.

I just don't undestand why noone will acknowledge the actual problems in FL. Were the pbase three times bigger then EQ would be a non issue, but with such a small player base every encounter is of utmost importance. There is seldom balanced cabal warfare, it just goes from one extreme to the other depending where the elite are putting their chips. If you die in cabal warfare and lose your standard, eq and lands you control it can seem like an insurmountable obstacle to overcome (especially for a new player). The reason only a handful of vets remain here is because the game is designed for them.

The EQ discrepency is too vast. It doesnt matter how many rares are in circulation, certain players are going to be decked and others will not. I really really really think that to compete with this ever changing world it HAS to be faster to get back on your feet. Telling a noob that they don't need to spend hours in the factions when they can just PK for eq is absurd. Since noone likes my idea of giving everyone a few pieces of signature eq then at least make non rares better or make surivable eq easier to come by.

Or don't change anything, and run a life-insured, but not really life-insured event once a month for the 4 people who still play, but I don't see that changing anything. All it will do is MAYBE give a few scared players the incentive to PK once a month. I see some major effort in the works to attract new players and I think that is great. I have chosen not to help in this endeavor at the moment though, because I am pretty damn certain that 95% of anyone we attract wont ever see the light of level 50.

For all those who still tote the old lines that "FL is a rough and tumble place, only a select few can stomach it, harden up, etc..." You are absoultely right, and that's also exactly why it is stagnating. Congrats, you are the select few, the "creme de la creme of the Forsaken Lands empire" Pretty lonely isn't it.

I am aware this post sounds very negative and angry. It is a bit of both, but I am trying to be constructive at the same time. People need to start looking at the game through the eyes of others and be more open to change.

To the IMMS. An active and open minded staff is what I see which is a great thing, but I also sense you are trying to please everyone. In my experience this leaves noone happy.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

Newer players complain that they spend countless hours ranking and training and then doing trips all to lose hard and fast. The vet answer I am seeing here is "I don't go on trips, I pk YOU for the eq." That WILL lose us players faster than anything.

It takes me 30-60 hours to pinn and fully train a character. I consider myself pretty fast at it. How long will it take a new player? I can do several high end areas solo or in a small group because of my experience, a new player will die fast out there without guidance. It took me a long time to learn the areas because I did not have the confidence to lead a party out there and most of my experiences in groups went by so fast I didn't really learn anything about the layout of these places. I was also lazy and over the years I did not save my identifies to a file somewhere (If I had my database of eq would be pimped out).

So what am I getting at here? The current gain:loss ratio for the average player in this game is not worth it. Who besides a complete glutton for punishment is going to invest hours in gaining anything when it is taken away from them in 5 minutes. Even many veterans get bummed and drop characters after crappy interactions or unecessary full loots and lose interest, so imagine how the poor noobie feels.

I agree with the Nameless in that without standing up to the big guns, you won't improve. But Sandbox is also right that many times it feels completely hopeless, even if they "loot you gently".

I tried to start a thread about what would keep peoples interest in their character and actually give them incentive to condie. My suggestions were shot down and noone gave any of their own.

I just don't undestand why noone will acknowledge the actual problems in FL. Were the pbase three times bigger then EQ would be a non issue, but with such a small player base every encounter is of utmost importance. There is seldom balanced cabal warfare, it just goes from one extreme to the other depending where the elite are putting their chips. If you die in cabal warfare and lose your standard, eq and lands you control it can seem like an insurmountable obstacle to overcome (especially for a new player). The reason only a handful of vets remain here is because the game is designed for them.

The EQ discrepency is too vast. It doesnt matter how many rares are in circulation, certain players are going to be decked and others will not. I really really really think that to compete with this ever changing world it HAS to be faster to get back on your feet. Telling a noob that they don't need to spend hours in the factions when they can just PK for eq is absurd. Since noone likes my idea of giving everyone a few pieces of signature eq then at least make non rares better or make surivable eq easier to come by.

Or don't change anything, and run a life-insured, but not really life-insured event once a month for the 4 people who still play, but I don't see that changing anything. All it will do is MAYBE give a few scared players the incentive to PK once a month. I see some major effort in the works to attract new players and I think that is great. I have chosen not to help in this endeavor at the moment though, because I am pretty damn certain that 95% of anyone we attract wont ever see the light of level 50.

For all those who still tote the old lines that "FL is a rough and tumble place, only a select few can stomach it, harden up, etc..." You are absoultely right, and that's also exactly why it is stagnating. Congrats, you are the select few, the "creme de la creme of the Forsaken Lands empire" Pretty lonely isn't it.

I am aware this post sounds very negative and angry. It is a bit of both, but I am trying to be constructive at the same time. People need to start looking at the game through the eyes of others and be more open to change.

To the IMMS. An active and open minded staff is what I see which is a great thing, but I also sense you are trying to please everyone. In my experience this leaves noone happy.

[Twinblades713]

God, Reccum, thank you. Yes.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I still think this is a great idea. I loved the old Battle Royales that Mhalador used to do. Those were great.

RE Reccum: Take a chill pill. Most players have changed. Most circumstances have changed. However, everything has its time and place. Let's focus more on this Battle Royale for now since it's more immediate and everything else is still a bit further into the future.

When the Two-Tiered PK system was introduced, it was already said that it would be better to gain two newbs and lose a vet. Just relax and chill and all that good stuff or start another thread.

[Sandbox]

Bravo Reccum, bravo, couldn't have said it better myself. Just to piggy back on what he is saying I like the fact that you guys "the imm staff" came up with an idea then pushed it to the public. I don't think it's a bad idea and I'm willing to give it a try, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. I'm just trying to view it through the eyes of the new players, i consider myself semi-noob at this point i certainly havent been here 7-13 years... i've been playing on and off for roughly a year i think and i'm getting slowly better at hanging with them. I realize NO change or event will fix all of the issues we have. This is still and will always be the best game i've ever played once you get the hang of things, but I'm a huge fan of tailoring events to the one thing we lack. New players. I will try anything once if the staff and vets think it will get us closer to that. I realize my opinion doesn't weight too heavily because I'm not as experienced as a lot of you, but i will say thank you for listening to my concerns.

I guess that is a lot of text to say "lets atleast try it." The last thing we need is our extremely patient and motivated staff losing either of those qualities due to us shooting down their ideas and not giving anything in exchange. I would also be willing to try the gladiator combat idea that was thrown up. Cant knock it till i try it.

[Reccum]

I still think this is a great idea. I loved the old Battle Royales that Mhalador used to do. Those were great.

RE Reccum: Take a chill pill. Most players have changed. Most circumstances have changed. However, everything has its time and place. Let's focus more on this Battle Royale for now since it's more immediate and everything else is still a bit further into the future.

When the Two-Tiered PK system was introduced, it was already said that it would be better to gain two newbs and lose a vet. Just relax and chill and all that good stuff or start another thread.

I am perfectly chill Valek, I am also passionate about what I say on this topic so I cannot write about it with indifference.

"Most players have changed, and most circumstances have changed..."

Can you elaborate on that? It is a pretty broad statement and I don't believe it. I stopped played Zeb about a month ago, I even came back since and dabbled briefly with another project (yes I am an addict) and I found nothing changed.

I don't see why we would have to lose a vet to gain two new players. Anyone who would leave because the game got a bit more newbie friendly just goes to show how f-ed up we are.

As for the moderate tier...It is REALLY hard to be a modeate FL player. As it stands it takes countless hours to achieve anything. And if you want to be at all competitive you need to invest time in gathering consumables and gaining eq+gold+cps. I think those in the moderate tier could potentially have a chance if non rares had any value, but they don't. And considering you cannot get beyond V in a Cabal, that tier closes a lot of doors for people who want a long term influencial character.

I really think that a monthly battle royal, just like the moderate tier is a neat gimmick that addresses some very real problems in the game, but I just don't think either is an effective solution.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Yes, it is broad, and so is everyone's experiences. I used to get PKed A LOT. In the last three years no one will come sniffing around me until well into the 40's. I don't hit 50 until after at least 70 hours. One example.

What does the Battle Royale change? Everyone's too afraid to PK. Many people complain "I can't get better at PK because I lose too much equipment." "I invest too much time into getting equipment to lose it to someone I know is better than me."

So, what better than a Battle Royale where people lose next to nothing to build some confidence. It's not like Halloween Madness. You'd still have the RP. You'd still have all the other things. Nothing is suspended. *shrug* I don't see what anything else has to do with this suggestion of a Battle Royale.

[Reccum]

So' date=' what better than a Battle Royale where people lose next to nothing to build some confidence. It's not like Halloween Madness. You'd still have the RP. You'd still have all the other things. Nothing is suspended. *shrug* I don't see what anything else has to do with this suggestion of a Battle Royale.[/quote']

A lot has to do with it, not the battle royal itself, but the motive behind it. The IMMs, to my understanding, are trying to find a way to get people to log more, participate more, and lose less with an event like this. Naturally a thread like this lends itself to other ideas with similar goals in mind.

I never said this was a bad idea, I'm just saying IMO it is not enough to get the desired results.

[The End]

I started a new thread so that this can carry over into a thread where it IS on topic.

[Anume]

Read your changes, Reccum. Moderates can get to T in their cabals now.

[Anume]

As to your other suggestions, we've been working on some of that for a while (a LOT of time put in by Staff) and you will see the first results soon.

Nobody forces anyone to log in when it is an announced event, usually Battle Royals are fun, the only problem we encountered last time was a couple characters getting fullooted when they died in them which made it rather not fun to fight all guns out, multi vs one style. The current suggestions is meant to minimize the loss without taking out all risk. If you don't like it, don't log on.

[Hegemon]

Anume,

We REALLY want to see what you guys have come up with.

EDIT: Valek it sounds to me as though you play like a Latvian Goatmonger with your talk of hiding and waiting. Be a man.