How Do We Keep and Build Our Playerbase?

[Ex-D&Der]

I think one other problem is that, while the game should really favor newbies if we want to keep them, it's actually the opposite. Vets have advantages in terms of equipment, qclasses and cabals, and it makes it more or less quixotic for newbies. I'm not sure why I stuck this out, but apparently fewer and fewer people do.

[L-A]

Absolutely not. The biggest problem any MUD faces right now is the learning curve and the time it takes to overcome it. While I believe this game is FAR better than any first person shooter' date=' you can get lucky and kill someone in a first person and get that satisfaction of winning, even if only before you get powned left and right. MUD's don't have the instantaneous gratification and thus are less desirable to the majority of people (we don't want the no timers anyway) We do want the casual gamer who has 1-2 hours of play every other day. That is simply not enough time to play FL and that needs to change or we have 0 chance of competing. Until that problem is fixed there are really only bandaids for broken limbs.[/quote']

Do you really believe you can't compete at 1-2 hours a day? Currently I'm playing sort of that schedule (perhaps a bit less). Getting in 45min here, an hour or two there. The three or four times a month I can get 2 - 4 hour stints are my longest online and have to be planned for.

I'm caballed, have rares (not purged) and I'm doing reasonably well. Yes, I have experience so that probably help but (IMHO) I'm also playing a race/class that isn't exceptionally easy or friendly in this environment. If I was on a cleric, theif or ranger I'd be having a vastly easier time (and most newbies will be on characters like these).

As for ranking - it did take me a couple of months to hit lvl 50 trained - but I knew that with the amount of playtime I have. I'd be surprised if anyone here is constantly hitting less than 35 - 40 hours fully trained on their character. I think I did 42 (but I skimped on training) and that is fast for me - got lucky groups. I usually expect ~50 hours for ranking, training and getting a semi-OK suit. Sometimes I can manage cabal in this timeframe but I see that as a bonus.

Honestly, if you are playing 1 - 2 hours per day you will excel at this game in a matter of weeks and/or months depending on previous experience. IMHO - those of us who were able to play 6, 8 and 10 hour days at some point got spoilt by having a LOT of time which ensured 'easy' sucess. FL isn't that hard - it really isn't even at top-tier PK (which their is pathetically little of but that is another post in itself...).

I think player commitment is more the issue (from both newer and veteran players) - which isn't something easily catered for....

L-A

[The End]

The stats say 1-2 hours every other day so we can be nice and say one hour a day (which I think is a lot). With one hour a day how many days would it take a new player to get to 50 and ready for war? I would have to say (if they make it to that point 25% chance) it would take 6 months plus. That kind of commitment is too much to ask and when they get there they will be utterly destroyed in PK. They won't have the map memorized like a vet and they will be chased down or unable to chase down if they gain an upper hand. I have waited 2 weeks for a golden mask and I have not been able to grab one but I know 2 players that have. Luck of the draw when I log in and that makes me want to not log in.

If you can afford to lose players like me then don't change, but I want to stay. The time it takes to compete if you are not a vet and the frustration behind not being able to give that time are hard. I can't survive without a rare suit and I like the danger of pk

so moderate play is out, what are my options? I have forgotten a great deal of information and it gives me a good insight to new players frustrations.

There is the idea that dramatic change is not necessary and of the highest importance. That idea was the reason Malch lost so many people and why so few are coming back. Old men who refuse to embrace technology are left isolated from those who do.

[English lad]

I think The End makes some good points, but I don't think its about dramatic change so much as it is about EFFECTIVE change.

We don't need to re-invent the MUD but we do need change.

I would say that the first thing to consider, rather than any actual changes, is our expectations and preconceptions about both the MUD and its players.

How much do we expect people to play in a month? What constitutes an acceptable amount of playtime?

How much change are we, both players and immortals, willing to accept for the sake of new players? Do we really want change, or do we want the same old 'comfort zone' that we know?

How many people do we actually want playing the game? What are realistic goals to be set?

I know this may seem a little bit 'blue sky' and not focusing on the actual situation, but I do quite a lot of effectiveness and improvement training, and one thing I would say is that understanding your motives and desires is paramount.

[The End]

I would say the biggest drawback is knowing it won't change (at least in times past).

Get rid of the "we can't tell you, you need to figure it out yourself."

Adios to rare limits, make the mobs super beefy and give it a 25% respawn chance if you want it rare. At least that way you can just keep killing it until it pops.

For crying out loud make some freaking Leader Cabal heads.I know of two players who have done more than enough to deserve it.

Reduce time requirements.

Reduce time requirements.

Reduce time requirements.

I love you, but change is needed. Pwipe and massive change. When I complained about a pwipe to virigoth he told me that it was the absolute best way to start the creative juices flowing when they start running low.

[Zavero]

You pwipe my characters and I simply quit. Plain and simple. I have spent to many hours on my characters to be wasted. Just because you do not have the time or feel that it takes to long doesn't mean others should be punished by taking away their hard work.

I can see you reducing time requirements for people who have less time. I also agree that it should be easier to become Elder or Leader in a cabal that you have spent a lot of time in. Especially with the small amount of people that actually play. A pwipe is a little excessive though.

The immortals appear to be working diligently to try to change problems. No one said that "creative juices" aren't flowing. Perhaps we should give them time to flesh these problems out. You are right about one thing The_End, everyone is about instant gratification. We just need to have some patience.

[f0xx]

The_End, some of your ideas (just some) are not bad.

Most of them though, are quite ridiculous (to put it blunt).

You can't thorw pwipes like that. And the idea bout the rare limit... are you even serious?

There are other ways.

I've posted this a thousand of times.

Big rewards for good RP. Yes, reduced time requirements. Cabal entrance for NON PINNS! How many times have we been on this? The level requirement for some cabals is 15-50! Not just 50.

Rewards rewards rewards. Cutom items, custom titles, custom rooms, tattoos so on so on. Custom stuff. Cool custom stuff. There are so many ways an IMM can make a player want to stick to his character.

IMMs need to level their requirements (some cabals promote fast, most cabals promote too slow).

[The End]

Explain what purpose limiting rares has on such a small playerbase? The whole "he has what I want so go kill him" mentality is bunk. What if it is a goodie only eq? How are you supposed to get it then? What if your character doesn't kill others and only wants uber svs and -ac gear to avoid PK? Player interaction could easily be spawned with more eq trips since you know the reward is at the end.

This also takes away a huge advantage gap that decked players have.

Has there ever been a pwipe that you looked forward to? I know I never did, but I liked (for the most part) the changes that followed.

EDIT

The reason for a Player Wipe is so that everyone starts off on the right foot. It resets the mechanics of the game so you don't get narly bugs if you change the code and it is also a bonding opportunity as you rank and train and rush to be in the lead. It would only be necessary if there were major changes, possibly not even then but I would recommend it. I don't care if you hate me it's just what I think.

[Pali]

I think all rare complaints right now are badly timed given the ongoing IMM project regarding revamping EQ to make rares less necessary for PK, as I think making common eq and very common rares more competitive against the high-end rares is the way to fix it rather than just making rares easier to get.

You do make a very good point about time, though. I would love to play, and indeed do tend to have on average an hour or so a day in which I could... but when I compare what I get in that hour or so, and the future investment of hours I'm going to need to put in just to make these first few hours even really worth it, to the other things I could be doing in that hour or two that I also enjoy and don't require that investment, it just doesn't seem that attractive a notion.

Another issue I've been thinking about lately is that most of those other things are things that I am able to drop at a moment's notice if something comes up - I can pause a single-player game (or movie/TV show), I can drop out whenever I want in nearly any other multiplayer game without any losses... but I need to give myself a margin of error for FL timing. If I have 30 minutes before work I can load up the Xbox and have no worries about if I'm going to get there on time without problems - I often cannot do this with FL unless I want to take the major risk of an AFK death and the total eq loss that comes with it. The chances of a fight coming up randomly are just too high (or just as bad, having a cabal enemy on who sees you pop on, attacks, and you have to say "Sorry, have to go" rather than fighting - which, if I'm in a cabal, is me breaking RP because of reality, which I hate doing), and I won't take them.

[f0xx]

Explain what purpose limiting rares has on such a small playerbase?

What does it matter whether the PB is big or small? A rare is a RARE and not everyone should have it. Imagine you playing an invoker/shaman or another c/c, how would you feel if everyone around is wearing in 60 svs?

Or what about if every warrior around was having 60/60 hit/dam?

Also, I don't like how you are putting so much stress on EQ. This game is not about EQ.

The reason for a Player Wipe is so that everyone starts off on the right foot.

That is not true.

The one and ONLY reason for a pwipe is changes, and ONLY if they are so major that they require it. One is reason for the other. Not the other way around.

If you think we are gonna win players by removing the rare limit and a pwipe, then you are either selfish or naive (I'll use the soft word here ).

You win players by change in administration policies, by gameplay changes.

Although I won't mind giving a try to your idea about the rare limit and seeing how it actually works, just because I (and I think everyone) is open to trying anything.

[Aulian]

what happened to ullquiora?

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

Also' date=' I don't like how you are putting so much stress on EQ. This game is not about EQ.[/quote']

[f0xx]

Yes, that's right, EQ will be as important for you as you make it out.

[KRins]

Yes' date=' that's right, EQ will be as important for you as you make it out.[/quote']

Lightning spears and mithril v. Monorods and a full set of uniques... It seems so important suddenly...

[f0xx]

Lightning spears and mithril v. Monorods and a full set of uniques... It seems so important suddenly...

I am talking about basic lvl 50 vs decked lvl 50, not basic lvl 20 vs decked lvl 50 gear.

There was a very very nice example recently of how the underdog can defeat the decked via tactics.

Daimed vs Grum, in which battle Daimed won and full looted Grum and then with his gear died to a naked thief.

I can give you thousand examples but we all know that skill tops gear, thus what I said is correct. Gear will only be as important as you make it.

PS. This thread has really been derailed, can we get back on track?

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

Daimed vs Grum' date=' in which battle Daimed won and full looted Grum and then with his gear died to a naked thief.[/quote']

Thats not a good example

[The End]

Love me now while were alive, it's the best thing we can doooo.

Alright Foxx, here we go.

Smaller playerbase means less of each individual rare item. So when you have low numbers you don't have the lower lvl fodder to boost rare counts at pinn.

Equipment is the deciding factor when skills are equally matched in every way. That is why we have it. When the skills are not evenly matched, the equipment will only help the more skilled player who knows how to use it. Your argument is bunk because 40/40 hit/dam does not equal 30/30 hit/dam. If you are saying it does, well, *shrugs*

[Anume]

Re The End: Your assumption that the current pfile count determines the number of rares is incorrect. If it was that way there'd be about half as many rares around as there currently are.

[f0xx]

Thats not a good example

Why isn't it?

And The_End, you are basicly saying "Rares for everyone". In this case full loots will become a norm, good players who usually have to PK to get their god stuits will now have them easier, players like me (who I consider somewhat good ) will also have easier time and instead of PKing in average stuff will be also decked. So you now still have the newbs, who will be dying and getting full looted everytime that happens. Yes, the rares will still be there, and they still won't have them.

[Zavero]

It isn't a good example because you talk about skill over equipment. A pk scenerio is one that has many factors, not one of which really overrules another. It's about situation, equipment, training, timing, player skill, and basic luck. All are factors. A total newb can take out one of you self proclaimed elites given the right situation.

[Grim_Reefer]

@the_end

Unlike foxx, I agree with a lot of your thoughts. As of right now, this is a game dominated by elitists. Anybody who kicks *** is either Mindflayer, The_nameless, Tassinvegeta, Hitandrun, Twinblades, Jibber, Houseless_Rogue, or Celerity.

I got my little brother into it and he was extremely interested but gave up because of the insane learning curve. He never made it to 50, I think he got up to like 42 or something. His experience was nothing other than people recognizing he was a noob and then getting molested and having his gear taken. I remember getting pked and full looted was the WORST thing that could ever happen. Its not hard now, because I know how to re-equip. Not knowing how is devastating and will make a person delete and start over before trying to re-up on the gear.

Information? Yes. We need a well of information. I think any rare that is under level 50 should be made like WAY less rare if even rare at all. The class essays need to be UPDATED. The website is lame, there is too much veiled info on the forums, and there are a couple of bad eggs amongst our community who make it hard for noobs.

I'm starting Give Newbs A Chance. This is the graphical age, you have to attract kids to get people hooked. Kids are your selling point. We don't have anyone that plays here that is in high school I bet. MUDs are a dying breed, why not take the chance with this excellent mudding community to re-spark the interest in them. Quit thinking about your characters and yourselves and think about other potential players.

[Reccum]

I can't wait to see what the Imms are cooking up in regards to the non rare eq that will soon enter circulation. This may lead to a lot of more moderate characters, which should be very strongly recommended among noobs or anyone who doesn't like being full looted.

As for a pwipe, I am against it. You should use pwipes very very very sparingly and only when massive changes leave no other choice.

I do agree that it still takes too long to train and pinn. I am surprised noone responded to the idea I posted that with each level gained all your currently practiced skills/spells/songs go up by 1%.

[tassinvegeta]

I would say the biggest drawback is knowing it won't change (at least in times past).

Get rid of the "we can't tell you, you need to figure it out yourself."

Adios to rare limits, make the mobs super beefy and give it a 25% respawn chance if you want it rare. At least that way you can just keep killing it until it pops.

For crying out loud make some freaking Leader Cabal heads.I know of two players who have done more than enough to deserve it.

Reduce time requirements.

Reduce time requirements.

Reduce time requirements.

I love you, but change is needed. Pwipe and massive change. When I complained about a pwipe to virigoth he told me that it was the absolute best way to start the creative juices flowing when they start running low.

So you're pretty much saying we should make Obama an fl Imm? I do agree with you on most points except for the pwipe and reducing time requirements by 3. We should reduce time requirements by 5. Its pretty ridiculous how long it takes to gain rank up to L in cabals in addition to qclass/qrace waits plus not inducting for long periods of time. I mean seriously are we purposely trying to get rid of the few players we have? If we're worried about the wrong people getting cabaled, qrace'd too early than just take it away or help to guide them in the right direction. With the things I have going on in rl i'm trying my best to keep fl in my life but there are other less demanding and arguably more exciting games out there that you have to invest to have a good time. The players here are playing less and less and it takes away from the fun factor for all.

My avatar Gaddfrey got his butt kicked all over the place but he was rewarded. Even though I was terrible in pk I was still motivated to take the beatings and to roleplay my aggressive devout avatar.

My crusader even though sucked in pk against a third of the pb I was rewarded and still put in 600 hours.

I also tend to play a char longer if I don't have to wait a full rl month to get T.

I may have made mistakes that I am or not aware of but I'm pretty sure I didn't ruin the game with my experiences and I'm sure alot of other people had more fun because I was around rather than not. At least most of you guys

[Kyzarius]

It is the time that it takes to obtain these things that makes them truly valuable.

What happens when a character hits E or L, they drop off play time. Why? They have reached the endgame, their goals, and now have nothin to do but sit and stare at the slowly scrolling text as they drool into obscurity.

Same goes for qrace/qclass. If you really watch it, monitor it, most qrace/qclasses obtain their status, then rarely login once they hit pinn. Yes we have those who really make an impact in the game world, but most just quickly fade away to newer projects.

[tassinvegeta]

Yet how many times do we see these things happen anyway? No matter how it looks like someone will stick to a char, we have no way of knowing if they truly will stick around or not. Many don't even try for these things because of the time it takes to get them. Yes it weeds people out but who knows if one of those guys might be the next 600 hour cabal E or qcalss. I agree that the reward is greater when we have to wait for something difficult to obtain. But the time it takes is too much compared to other games. My motivation to play is slowly dropping off because of this. I see cabaled players play much less because they really can't progress any further or are bored. When this happens theirs a trickling affect that affects other players. When I log in at my usual times I usually see the same two guys online. God forbids one of them stops playing, then I'd really have more motivation to play.