Wimpy

[f0xx]

Wimpy is a benefit for new players' date=' it allows them more opportunities to survive or to survive longer.[/quote']

So we are pulling the "it hurts newbies" card again.

-------------------> Moderate tier.

If you want to play with the big boys, you should pay attention to your HP yourself and not rely on the game to save you.

[Zavero]

It's all about pulling cards? He makes a valid point. You cannot say 'Oh well you are just using this card' everytime a valid argument is posed against your complaint. This is all a mute point considering the head coder has spelled it out for us. It will not be changed because it is there for a good purpose.

[f0xx]

It's all about pulling cards? He makes a valid point.

What is his valid point? "No need to pay attention to your HP, we got wimpy!"??? "Newbie point of view"

Or

"Use wimpy against certain classes, you will suck 20 damage instead of 100 when such intercepts you."

There is a saying - "Give the man a fish and you will feed him for a day, teach the man to fish and you will feed him for a life time."

This is all a mute point considering the head coder has spelled it out for us. It will not be changed because it is there for a good purpose.

Actually, he said it will not be removed, and noone is asking for it to be removed. The way it works though, can be changed so it would not be as abusable as it is at the moment.

The real sad thing is, that I've seen people wearing adeptus suits fighting such with mithril and having wimpy at 50%. That is right yes? Because it helps newbies?

[Kyzarius]

What I find curious about the entire thread is that I never have trouble killing people who have wimpy on.

Actually, once I realize they are using wimpy I adjust my tactics and destroy them quicker for it.

Maybe instead of changing wimpy, you should just get better at pk

joking aside, this entire thread and your argument foxx is just splitting hairs because you cant kill someone who is obviously getting thrashed already

also, analyzing your log, I see that only the first flee was caused by wimpy. The following were "retreat" commands spamed by the opponent. You CAN easily flee from firestorm and other attacks if you know you will be hit. I usually would enter, for example "W;flee" as the command or "W;retreat e" in the example you posted. This enters the direction and a flee in the same command line.

[f0xx]

also' date=' analyzing your log, I see that only the first flee was caused by wimpy. The following were "retreat" commands spamed by the opponent.[/quote']

You retreat by default once you get the skill. Even if you type flee. It was wimpy, trust me, he would have retreated "west" otherwise. I will post the log once I edit it fully, so you know what I am talking about.

As for splitting hairs, I don't know, perhaps you are right. I just don't like the idea of having something automated saving you/your opponent.

Anyway, wimpy has already been dissected. I will now move away from this thread since everything has been stated already and we are just repeating ourselves barking at each other.

Have fun being wimps gents

[Zavero]

Haha. You have it all figured out. He had a valid point in saying it was in place for new players and it outweighs vets wants or needs. The benefits outweigh the negatives. You are right Zhorkil said it would not be removed. Keep fighting your good fight to have it changed though. Wimpy needing to be changed... Comical.

[f0xx]

Wimpy needing to be changed... Comical.

I don't know who is comical here... I, who want my and my opponents life to depend only on their skill, or you who rely on the game to save your live

[Zhokril]

Wimpy doesn't actually ignore spammed commands. The reason that you see people fleeing when they have commands spammed is when their skill lag runs out mid-round, but the game obviously isn't going to accept a command mid-round.

For example:

Adversary casts wrath on you. (Adversary now spams two flamestrikes)

Adversary's downing mauls you.

Adversary's downing mauls you.

Adversary's downing mauls you.

Adversary's downing mauls you.

Your drowning maims Adversary.

Your drowning maims Adversary.

Your drowning maims Adversary.

(Round 1 over)

Your hellstream ===DISINTEGRATES=== Adversary.

Adversary's downing mauls you.

Adversary's downing mauls you.

Adversary's downing mauls you.

Adversary's downing mauls you. (wrath lag runs out, because it isn't a full 2 rounds)

Your drowning maims Adversary.

Adversary wimpy flees!

.

.

(End what would have been rest of combat round 2)

(This is where the next spammed flamestrike would have been accepted)

If someone uses a skill like dirt and spams bash after it, they won't wimpy flee in the middle because dirt lasts an actual 2 rounds.

[f0xx]

If someone uses a skill like dirt and spams bash after it' date=' they won't wimpy flee in the middle because dirt lasts an actual 2 rounds.[/quote']

Yes but he will flee before the bash?

[edit] I didn't understand much the log with the adversary, but the adversary spams wrath, flamestrike, flamestrike, then you take it at wimpy HP and it flees after the wrath lag has worn off?

So what the game sees actually is not wrath -> lag from wrath -> flamestrike/lag -> framestrike/lag -> flee but wrath/lag -> flee -> flamestrike -> flamestrike.

Doesn't this basicly prove my point that wimpy does override spammed commands? Yes he still takes the lag from the command which he has put in before the wimpy, but that doesn't change the fact that it rescues him from 2 more rounds of damage and death?

[Reccum]

The problem is that I don't think the actual mud recognizes spammed commands until they can be executed. The buffer is in your client. There have been times when I have spammed commands only to have something go wrong, then I quickly reconnect to the game and the buffer is cleared. So wimpy essentially is just like a flee you don't have to physically type, and it will keep trying so you don't have to spam flee.

I still agree with fox though, that wimpy should not let you flee in ways the flee command cannot. Even in the help wimpy file it says something along the lines of wimpy being just like the flee command, it doesn't mention anything about pulses and mid round fleeing.

[Zavero]

I don't know who is comical here... I' date=' who want my and my opponents life to depend only on their skill, or you who rely on the game to save your live [/quote']

Negative. Sorry to burst your bubble Mr. Elite Vet, but in my 14 years of playing mud I have not once used wimpy and it was always available. I can understand you wanting skill vs. skill in PK but new players have no skill, hence the wimpy command. There is no way to regulate a new player and a seasoned player so everyone has to deal with a little longer battle or losing your kill.

Now you could argue that you CAN indeed seperate new and old by the moderate tier but even as a newbie I wouldn't touch moderate. It's like playing the game on easy mode. I enjoy a challenge and I am sure I am not the only one.

Edit: My retorting aside, I can see wimpy being changed to flee after a round instead of mid round or mid 12 pulses. However I don't think we should waste resources while other things could be worked on.

[mya]

So, that makes command spam a client problem.

I should get a new Zmud. One with a spam clear button.

I find this Wimpy discussion comical.

Command does what it does in every other mud I have played. It is working fine.

Sure you can flee in times you would normally not be able to, but that is the point of command. An automated flee when you are not lagged.

So much better subjects to discuss, such as:

- Warriors with Dispel.

- Vampires bat powers.

- Cursed weapons disarming.

- Healing consumables that you can buy.

- QLag skill dismounting my paladin, preventing his resistance to lag.

- Assassinate...

- Dwarven Blademasters

- Refresh scrolls that you can buy cheep.

- Protection vs evil harder to get than vs good (potion).

- Uber EQ healing.

- Etc...

[f0xx]

I love how all of Mya's complaints are against melees

Naturally, she sees nothing wrong with the way wimpy works.

[Zhokril]

I use a wimpy a good portion of the time. And its lost me plenty of kills, and perhaps even caused a death or two in down-to-the-wire standoffs.

And no, its not so I can flee 'mid-round'. Its a simple "Stop being an idiot and get the hell out of here unless you have a really good reason not to!" reminder, which isn't something that only newbies need.

[mya]

This from someone playing a mage...

Just let August come, and I'll smack you down to your temple pit.

[Kyzarius]

Just let August come, and I'll smack you down to your temple pit.

OOOO! Mya's gonna take you to the pit brotha!

[tassinvegeta]

So much better subjects to discuss, such as:

- Cursed weapons disarming. (Yeah I don't like this one bit)

- Healing consumables that you can buy. (It might be better for the game)

- Protection vs evil harder to get than vs good (potion). (not anymore)

Don't see much wrong with some of the other points.

[mmajunkie]

Foxx - it IS about changing a command so its easier to kill someone. You say its not, but the way you shape your arguments/point speak another story.

If you say its about changing it so the game doesnt save their life for them...that is the same as saying it makes it harder for them to not die, which is saying it makes it easier for them to die, which in turn says its easier for you to kill them.

Stop whining about a mechanic that has been in place since before this MUD was ever created. It helps new people learn and it helps some people keep track of their position in a fight. The majority of the time it screws someone up. You should be happy they are fleeing. You are getting free damage while they do none in return. If you are at 10% and they are at 50% and u hit them and they flee becauase of wimpy...you can gtfo quickly. You stand around with firestorm and they get hit and u take no damage....what's to cry about?

Does it give them a chance to automatically flee? Yes.

Guess what? Learn to chase better. PK isn't just about damage or combat skill. (and it certainly isn't about lobbying to make it harder for people to flee against classes who by design don't have abilities to keep ppl in combat)

Mad because they are fleeing when taking damage? It makes sense. If I walk into a fire, I'm gonna IMMEDIATELY pull back...not stand around while you cast a spell.

ustillmad? Roll a lagging class.

[Reccum]

Moderate Tier = Easy mode.

That's a good one Zavero.

[f0xx]

Mad because they are fleeing when taking damage?

Nah, I am mad because the game is fleeing for them thus reducing the outcome of their mistakes.

If we make PK less dependant on player skill, then what else is it dependant on? EQ?

I am tired of seeing people who argue just for the sake of arguing and completely ignore my points.

Oh, and for those who keep repeating "learn to chase better" - wimpy does not help them to escape while you are chasing them, it helps them to flee when you engage them. I don't see what chasing has to do with wimpy again. But please, keep taking pot shots at me, when arguments are not strong enough that always works

[jibber]

I need to make some comical comment about how I hate it that charged staffs reduce the lag on every single spell cast except faerie fire and faerie fog....

[mmajunkie]

Sorry, I didn't get the invitation to your pity party.

Your arguments are elementary at best. It's not people ignoring them, it is you lacking the capacity to understand the rebuttals.

It is not anyone taking pot shots at you, it is once again you not understanding the points being made to counter your own.

I have read every post in this thread, including yours, filled with your insightful points. As I have read most of your posts going back over the past several months.

Proof of this, just for starters is here:

Foxx - "wimpy does not help them to escape while you are chasing them, it helps them to flee when you engage them. I don't see what chasing has to do with wimpy again. But please, keep taking pot shots at me"

You attempt to make a point, without realizing how ridiculous it sounds, and then you attempt turn it around as though someone it attacking you, while you also try to make them seem less intelligent than you with things like "I don't see what it has to do with this again"

What are you doing when you are chasing them? You ARE engaging them each time you attack them while chasing. Thus allowing wimpy to enter the scenario. So yes, wimpy does have something to do with chasing.

Even at the beginning of this thread when Grishnak replied to you, you responded back in a way that made it seem like he ignored you and didn't answer part of your question...when in fact, he did. You just failed to understand it. There's a very common theme with alot of your posts/threads. I'd be happy to supply links if you want clarification.

Invokers are not meant to be able to lag someone. Whether wimpy flees for me when I hit your firestorm, or I do it by myself, the end result is the same.

If you feel my judgement is wrong here, then I invite you to please, make a list of your "points" and I will respond to you in a PM.

[Zhokril]

I think this thread has served its purpose.