Defkkoman

[Reccum]

Don't start the parade just yet, this is not a delete post.

I figured some of you might have missed him, anyway he is shelved for the moment but I am hoping to dust him off sooner rather than later.

[samag08]

Wondered where he disappeared to.

[megayeah]

Damned moderate sneaky stealing bastard! I hope you burn in the eternal fires of Hell.

Just kidding. I love thieves. Probably the most fun I've had with a class, except my favourite dark knights.

[Dale]

There is definatly something very stingy about your combo.

[Twinblades713]

FL leave fail. You're not very good at quitting. In fact, you suck at it. Good character, hope to see him back soon.

[f0xx]

Well, since most of the people posting here don't know why he is posting this - I somewhat dislike "midround" changes i.e. changes that affect your character greatly while he is the peak of his power. Defkkoman was fooked big time by such a change, not just this but I am somewhat surprised it is not announced yet, because it is going to fook hard not just D-man, but any newbie tier character.

Not just that, D-man was going to be much more dangerous if he wasn't newbie tier. Definetely kudos for the characters and thumbs down for this thread. If you are planning to come back, why make it at all?

[jibber]

Blue PK characters aren't here for Senior Members to break the system. Such a change was made because he was using his blue status to make a god-suit (that couldn't be looted by the way) and using it to PK consistently.

I seem to remember when blue pk's first came out that IMMs said if someone excessively PKs with one, or becomes 'better than a blue', they'll make them a red PK... so I don't see why he wasn't made a red (or why he hasn't requested it) so that the so called change doesn't 'fook him over'.

Anyway. What do I know.

[Anume]

The moderate tier is NOT a newbie tier. It is a vialble alternative also for vets with less time on their hands and people who want to cut down on the annoyance of being looted.

There was no huge change either, what we did was correcting an oversight. Cabal eq (not the outfit set but the real thing) is oven better than the rares. So there is no reason not to count them towards the rare limit. Fact remains that upon death only two items can be looted.

[jibber]

Well, it may not be considered a newbie tier but I like the change. Still seemed a bit over the top with the lowering of CP cost of Cabal EQ. A moderate having every single piece (which they're quite nice as you mentioned) and not being able to have them looted and them not taking up a rare spot was godly.

Annyyway, are blue's still allowed to request to be turned to red if they don't like this change? Or are they gonna stay perm blue?

[f0xx]

Please jibber, you are over exaggerated things a bit.There are like 2 items from Nexus that are worth something for him. Do you really think 2 items are going to turn his normal tier suit into a "godly suit"? Waw. Hilarious.

What I said is that I simply don't like mid-round changes. When something gets implemented it should be carfully considered and this change with cabal items should have been made THEN, not now, when he have a character who is obviously annoying some of us. Especially considering this character is often fighting multiple cabal enemies at the same time, who are MUCH better equipped than him and shouldn't really have problems with any normal tier character.

PS. From what I know, blues are not and never were allowed to apply for such change (going red PK from blue).

[jibber]

A suit that works toward high hitroll, high damroll, and decent saves that cannot be looted is GODLY, f0xx. Waw. Hilarious.

[f0xx]

A suit that works toward high hitroll' date=' high damroll, and decent saves that cannot be looted is GODLY, f0xx. Waw. Hilarious.[/quote']

How are two items going to give that gudly high hit, dam and saves, I fail to understand.

[jibber]

I was under the impression, by your post, that he wore more than 2 cabal items?

So this change really didn't fook Defkomman, then? 2 items? He stopped playing because he couldn't wear TWO cabal items he had on before?

Seriously?!

.. Paw.

[Anume]

Re Foxx: changes are made when they seem necessary, else we could never change anything at all as there is always someone who is (obviously) affected by a change. Deff brought another problem to our attention which we will look into in the future (stealing of non rares by moderate thieves) and find a solution for. That cabal items did not count was a mere oversight. If we find a bug / mistake we will fix it and not wait till all chars affected by it stop playing. The outfit suits will still not be considered rare (not sure if this change is in yet).

Fact remains that when a moderate dies only two pieces of his corpse can be looted.

Re: switching of tiers : We'll consider it case by case.

We'll finish with the changes and then see. Moreover should this change really cause moderates not to be competitive (which I doubt) we might change something else to make them more so (but not just caballed moderates). We'll see how things develope.

[f0xx]

I was under the impression' date=' by your post, that he wore more than 2 cabal items?[/quote']

Please don't put things YOU said in my mouth ->

Still seemed a bit over the top with the lowering of CP cost of Cabal EQ. A moderate having every single piece (which they're quite nice as you mentioned) and not being able to have them looted and them not taking up a rare spot was godly.

So this change really didn't fook Defkomman, then? 2 items? He stopped playing because he couldn't wear TWO cabal items he had on before?

Seriously?!

.. Paw.

Jibber, people stop playing for different reasons. As you can see in his original point, he didn't even mention that he stopped because of this change. It was I who brought the discussion about the change, so don't try to present it like he stopped playing due to that, because you simply do not know why he made this thread and are just speculating.

On a side note:

A moderate tier char can wear something like 8 (or are they 10?) items. 2 items of 8 (10) are 1/4 (1/5) of his rares.

Considering your char has lets say 20 rares, please pick 5 (4) of them and remove them just for the sake of it. Are you not gonna feel fooked? I would really like to see this, especially with your love toward shinies.

"But I didn't pick moderate tier?" Who cares, IMMs decide the items you wear are too powerful for your class or whatever. He didn't know cabal items are suddenly gonna turn into rares too!

2 rares are not much, when you look it from the perspective of someone with 20. But when you have as much as 10 (and those are usually VERY carefully picked) and you suddenly have to remove two, this can really break you.

And that only because someone like you, who has double the amount of his hit/dam and at least four times the saves (not even gonna talk about side abilities like spell level) considers his suit GODLY

[jibber]

f0xx..

Seriously. You posted saying he quit because he got fooked, hence why I even posted about it. If you didn't have an idea in the first place (I'm guessing you know him OOC anyway) why the heck are you saying anything?

Everything I said was based off the info you provided to the forum, and me. So don't get upset when I retort.

Oh, AND. I'll never play a moderate tier, so your example of what you would like to see me do is moot, since it'll NEVER happen. Promise.

[Zavero]

The Immortals aren't allowed to make changes to their changes now?

[f0xx]

Jibber, how many times have you quit playing a char becuase of ONE reason alone?

We are both clear that reasons stack. Noone stops playing a char for just one reason. You know it, I know it and not just that, but I never said he stop playing BECUASE of that. I just said there was a change that affected him greatly. You are the one that assumed he left because of it and started persuading us how OP his two unlootable cabal items were.

The Immortals aren't allowed to make changes to their changes now?

Once again there are words put into my mouth. Making "mid-round" changes is like changing the rules of game before it is over.

Imagine this - football game. Someone with authority suddenly decides that one yellow card turns into red card. One team has one yellow and the other has four, so four players must leave the game from one team while only one from the other. This is what I mean about "mid-round" or mid-game changes.

[edit] Our game is not a round based game, but I used to play such games before. Certain good players started picking certain routes and played them like noone has before (which is basicly what Defkkoman did). Admin deemed things too powerful and made changes before the end of the round so those people were suddenly left with nothing, after they had poured weeks and weeks into the game. Next round same thing happened, then next round again. Suddenly the most active and experenced players took their groups of friends and moved to different games.

An example of a good timed change is the WM change to certain skills and how they work with monk/BLM stances. I am happy you guys made it after Scholin and Dagoneto had retired from WM.

[jibber]

Dude, this thread isn't about me.

Wow, I'm done posting on this thread. I'm getting absolutely no where.

[Akoz]

Once again there are words put into my mouth. Making "mid-round" changes is like changing the rules of game before it is over.

[edit] Our game is not a round based game, but I used to play such games before. Certain good players started picking certain routes and played them like noone has before (which is basicly what Defkkoman did). Admin deemed things too powerful and made changes before the end of the round so those people were suddenly left with nothing, after they had poured weeks and weeks into the game. Next round same thing happened, then next round again. Suddenly the most active and experenced players took their groups of friends and moved to different games.

and when do you want them to change it? After hes dead and someone else is in the middle of their char? Oh wait? PWIPE for every change that effects someone! I just dont see another way to be honest, when you see something you changed as broke, you fix it. You don't wait for oneone to be using it to fix it. That would be like the Nuetral Cleric thng that we have when adv first came out, do you think that should have been left in game? I don't.

[f0xx]

and when do you want them to change it? After hes dead and someone else is in the middle of their char? Oh wait? PWIPE for every change that effects someone! I just dont see another way to be honest' date=' when you see something you changed as broke, you fix it.[/quote']

Awendris, the only thing I am hinting towards here is measure twice, cut once. More changes on the test port = less unhappy players = less threads like this one (perhaps).

Also, this is the first moderate character that makes some impact after moderate tier has been introduced and it has been introduced like almost an year ago. Do you honestly think the next moderate tier char who would make a name for himself come that soon? Especailly having in mind that 99% of the experienced players stay away from moderate? Do you honestly think it would have been too much for the IMMs to wait till Reccum shelves his character to make that change after that?

*shrug*

[jibber]

More changes on the test port = less unhappy players

Heheh, speak for yourself

Edit; actually, maybe I read that a little wrong. Though you said more changes = less happy players. My bad.

[Croyvern]

change does not just happen.

There is a process.

Player abuse brings change about,

then change causes player unhappiness.

Therefor, if players would not abuse the system, players would remain happy. As a rule, if something in game is just too easy to believe, your probably abusing the system.

[samag08]

Sounds to me like he could just apply for ruthless tier now(He is a good pk'er anyhow) and there would be no issue at all? However I would definitely second the idea of a change for moderate thieves, stealing non rares and stuff that you can have no chance of getting back. I propose a flag added to stolen items making them loot-able upon death.

[Reccum]

Wow look at this thread go, lol. I actually meant what I said, Defkkoman is just taking a break. I have some other stuff going on right now which is part of the reason, the other part is the recent change to the rare status of cabal eq. Allow me to explain:

I did not roll Defkkoman with the intent to abuse a blue PK shield. I know a lof of you other vets think I did because moderate has a newbie tier reputation. Most of my previous characters have been rage deleted, mostly due to full loots or shady gangs, stuff that just makes my short fuse blow. The imms on one of my last goodbye threads suggested I try the moderate tier out. I never thought I would, but I finally decided to give it a go and here is why.

I seldom full loot anyone, I just don't like it. I often felt I had to because they would do it to me the first chance they got. So wow, here is a tier where I cannot even full loot people and where I won't get fulled, sublime. I also HATE having my cabal eq sacrificed, I don't do it to others and it just sucks buttloads when it happens to you, so YAY for moderate tier, or so I thought.

Now for all those who are throwing around words like God Suit. PLEASE, that is just ridiculous. As a moderate thief I was entitled to 9 rares. That means I would dual wield two, giving me 7 rares to play with. That is not a lot, at all. Naturally I thought hey, I can supliment some ****ty non rare gear with this mediocre cabal gear. Yes the Nexus Light and Face are uber, the rest is just ok, better than non rare worse than good rares. I did drop 4.9k CP which was hard earned on those items. Now I was very careful to pick which slots I'd use for rares and I even went as far as to drop hundreds of thousands of gold to maintain a pair of diamond wristguards, since every good non rare helped. Here is the score sheet of my "Godsuit"

/---------------\/----------------------------------------------\

| Defkkoman || Possessed of PANDEMONIUM |

\---------------/\----------------------------------------------/

| Str: 20(20)^2 || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 60(220h) |

| Int: 17(17) || Class: thief Ethos: chaotic |

| Wis: 17(17) || Race : slith Align: evil |

| Dex: 22(22)^8 || Hp : 912/900 Exp : 51345/540655 |

| Con: 19(21)^2 || Mana : 240/520 |

\ Lck: [|||||-] \/ Move : 422/422 +Hit: 32 +Dam: 26 /

/---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\

| ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Anume |

| Slash : -286 || Spell : -6 || Faith : Scourge |

| Pierce: -288 || Afflictive : -55 || Weight: 206/375 |

| Blunt : -287 || Maledictive: -13 || Items : 36/40 |

| Magic : -228 || Mental : -18 || Prac : 9 Train: 0 |

| || || Gold : 70k CP: 384 |

\---------------\/------------------\/--------------------------/

/ Condition: You have a few cuts and bruises. \

| You are ready for a cabal promotion. |

\---------------------------------------------------------------/

Hardly Godlike I am sure you will all agree, it is competitive at least.

Now one day I log on and find that I now have 5 rares too many on. That is a huge fricken change to happen for my character overnight. I also learn that now my cabal items can be looted. I took the matter to prayer forum as I believe it did severely nerf my character. Also the looting of cabal eq IMO goes against the whole point of playing a moderate. Once something gets changed to re-balance things I will undoubtedly come back.

Now, for those of you who complained that I could steal your backpacks and you not get them back. That is a very minor thing IMO. First of all, playing a moderate thief I can steal/pry a TOTAL of 2 items over the course of a VERY long time from any one character. Combined with my ability to loot up to 2 things, that is not a lot. Were I a ruthless thief many of you would have been stripped naked by pry alone and never even engaged with. At least me having to kill you for eq gives you a better chance to get me. Also, of all the people I robbed of their backpacks I don't think any of them succesfully killed me anyway, so it's not like you woulda had the chance to get it back anyway. What a lot of smart players did was keep a couple of empty backpacks in their inventory, then I am playing roulette with steal. I preferred pilfer anyway for the record.

Ultimately, you can all say what you like. Call me stingy, call me cheap, but before you pass judgement I DARE you to compete with half as many rares as anyone else. I did NOT do it for some kind of abuse, I just hate being full looted and losing hard earned cabal eq.

Tack on the amount of enemies I had to face being Nexus, and often multiple ones at once, lowering my score sheet by 5 rares is VERY significant. It would turn close fights to losses, and losses to blowouts. Just because I am very skilled with rogues classes it does not at all mean my combo was OP in the least. I even asked the imms to switch me to Ruthless if all these recent changes were gonna stick, I had no reply to that so I have no clue if it is possible. I think though, or those of you who had trouble with me already, you probably do not want me to be made ruthless.

Anyway, all this mess has really taken the wind out of my sails. I hope I can get it back because I realy enjoyed this character, not just for the PK but as quite a few of you know Defkkoman had a lot of RP plans going on as well.