K2 anyone tried this yet?

[Croyvern]

THIS is the kind of hippie-style talk that I have a problem with - marijuana being a plant that occurs naturally does not' date=' by that fact alone, make it something good to put into your body. All sorts of naturally-occurring plants will kill you.[/quote'] Thats likely because of your antichristian beliefs, or just the fact that you never read th bible. While I am not claiming that the bible is the be all end all truth of the universe, In Genesis, God tells Adam I created for you every green herb, "AND THEY ARE GOOD". Now, whether or not you believe in God, the important thing about this passage is that the MEN who wrote it believed it to be true. And over time Science has found good uses for every green herb, even poison ivy and oak are being used to aid in skin eating viruses. The blisters caused by the Ivy carry toxins to the surface and are pushed out by the white blood cells. This does not mean we are suposed to smoke every plant, could be the creator of the universe just wanted us to make better brownies. And frankly, your attitude suprises me Pali, here you would have the world be more accepting of homosexuality, while calling others hippies for their choices. I would go on but it would just sound mean spirited, and that is not my intention.

[Kyzarius]

In pali's defence, poppies come from the earth, and heroin is the most life destroying and most addictive drug on this planet.

[Akoz]

In pali's defence' date=' poppies come from the earth, and heroin is the most life destroying and most addictive drug on this planet.[/quote']

The big diffrence is...

Mary-J as it is called, grows is picked and smoked right off the plant.

Heroin - Is drained from the plant, (opium) boiled with lime, scopped, mixed with Ammonia among other things.... and we are still not to heroin yet, nope morphene. Add a little Acid and Cloroform add a dash of salt...charcol and alcohol and BAM! Low Grade Heroin! Add a little hydrocloric acid and a smart chemist andn you got some top end stuff! add a bad chemist and you got a good fireworks show.

Not really pure is it?

Opium on the other hand IS pure and kills much less people (mostly ODers)

[Pali]

Thats likely because of your antichristian beliefs' date=' or just the fact that you never read th bible.[/quote']

Not a fact. I've read the Bible cover to cover... and I would love to have those hours of my life back.

Now, whether or not you believe in God, the important thing about this passage is that the MEN who wrote it believed it to be true.

So... you understand that I don't consider the Bible to be a good source of information... and then quote it to me anyways? Why? And what does it matter if the people who wrote it believed it? Those people also believed in a flat Earth and that the sun went around us. People believe all sorts of incorrect notions... such as the idea that plants were created for us to use, when plants have existed for hundreds of millions of years longer than we have.

And over time Science has found good uses for every green herb, even poison ivy and oak are being used to aid in skin eating viruses.

Really? Every green herb? You're saying that we've found a beneficial use for every plant on the planet? And if science is what we've needed to use to figure out a way to make a plant useful, then it wasn't a gift from any god (edit: nor, I forgot to mention, is it something that qualifies as naturally good for you) - it was something we figured out ourselves, just like we figured out how to harness fire rather than keep being burned by it.

And frankly, your attitude suprises me Pali, here you would have the world be more accepting of homosexuality, while calling others hippies for their choices. I would go on but it would just sound mean spirited, and that is not my intention.

A person's nature is different from a person's beliefs. Your nature is beyond your control - your beliefs, on the other hand, can be altered.

P.S. Are people seriously suggesting that there aren't plenty of things on this planet that are incredibly toxic to us?

[Croyvern]

In pali's defence' date=' poppies come from the earth, and heroin is the most life destroying and most addictive drug on this planet.[/quote']Next t ime one of your family members has open heart surgery, tell them you want no heroin derivitives, they will laugh you right out of the hospital. Jeez. Every Green Herb is good, that does not mean MAN will not use it wrongly.

[brsingr]

whats with the dick waving, man? All plants have benefits and detriments, we just haven't discovered all of the effects.

for example,

Marijuana, like all other plant matter, produces tar and other carcinogens when burned, and, by extention, may not be healthy to set ablaze and inhale the smoke from.

on the other hand, the active chemicals produce a pleasant sensation when absorbed into the blood stream, are an efficient painkiller, and appear to have a beneficial effect on cancerous cells, both killing off old cells before they become cancerous, and according to some studies, actually killing cells that have already become cancerous.

now, that being said, we still don't know everything about it, and possibly never will.

[Pali]

Every Green Herb is good' date=' that does not mean MAN will not use it wrongly.[/quote']

You do understand that once something has been refurbished by humans into a drug (such as opium poppies being used to create oxycodone) it ceases to be something that we can appropriately label as natural? That at this point it is artificial?

And as Brsingr correctly (though not, to my mind, very clearly) pointed out - whether we consider something "good" or "bad" has to do a lot with things like dosage, how regular use is, method of ingestion, and what it is being used for. That we can use poisonous plants to make medicines of various kinds isn't something that I would say supports the notion that the plants themselves are inherently good for us - we've just figured out that toxicity is not an absolute quality of any chemical, but a relative quality that has to do with varying factors. Chemotherapy and radiation therapy are horrible, and do incredible amounts of damage to the body - but if the body has cancerous cells and the therapy is properly applied, they can work wonders. Good and bad are relative terms, not absolute ones - without a frame of reference, they are meaningless.

My objections to people saying that something being a plant makes it good for you are twofold: 1) in plant form, many plants contain chemicals that will kill you unless you take incredibly small doses; 2) it is a simplification of far more complex interactions, and these simplifications can and do harm people because they fail to look past the simplification. It's the same kind of thinking that has people figuring that if one pill is good for them, more pills are even better for them.

P.S. By the way, Croyvern, I think you're mistaken in your theology. Yes, all the plants within the Garden of Eden were supposed to be good and perfect (as was everything else) - but the Fall, as I understand it, is generally considered to be what tainted the world itself and created all the natural disasters, diseases, etc. that now plague humanity (this is what I've been told by countless creationists, anyways - most Christians these days recognize that the Genesis story is not accurate in any literal way [and arguably not accurate at all metaphorically even when the reader is given great license to assume what is a metaphor for what]). There's no Biblical reason that I'm aware of to assume that all plants that exist now, in the post-Fall period, should be good for you.

[Croyvern]

My point is that I believe that every green herb is good, meaning man WILL find the positive use for each in its own time. Not because I read it somewhere, I knew it in my heart long before I ever read the bible. I guess its in my nature. So why don't you just consider that for a moment Pali, if you can not be tolerant of others, do not expect tolerance from them.

Call me hippie, go ahead. Its better to be a hippie, than a hippiecrit. Smoke another bowl.

[Pali]

I am very tolerant of others, and I don't think you will find a post anywhere from me attacking someone for their nature or for engaging in activities that do not harm anyone beyond consenting adults involved in them (people choosing to harm themselves is their own business). What I am quite willing to do, however, is to criticize the various ideas that those others may hold. This is not intolerance - this is freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of expression, the marketplace of ideas at work. If there is anything at all that someone could say that I hold sacred, it is that people should be free to think or say whatever they wish. I have no problem with you voicing your opinion that anything green is good - I just take issue with the opinion itself, and I will argue against it when I see it voiced. I am not being intolerant here, nor am I being intolerant when I argue against mysticism or a political position that I view as flawed - I am merely making a counter-argument. (Edit: A way perhaps to sum this up: you are not the ideas you have, and attacking those ideas is not an attack on you.)

Also, "knowing in your heart" is not knowing anything at all - a single walk through a psych ward should prove this beyond reasonable doubt. Instinct and intuition have their uses, I would never deny this - but reliably coming to accurate conclusions about the way the world functions is not one of them. (EDIT: And again, I must point out that saying "every green herb is good" without providing a context for what makes it good rather than bad isn't really saying anything. If your position is that they are all potentially useful, I'd have no problem with that, but again, without context for how it is useful we're really not saying anything.)

[Grim_Reefer]

We're all victims to humanity's avarice and intolerance. It is happening all over the world. I do not wish to see this kind of bickering right here in my own back yard. Let the smokers smoke, the christians pray, and the pali's make a mess with mustard all over the floor and in his beard.

Everything kills you.

[mmajunkie]

Grim...I want to touch you right now bro...just like you touched my heart right there...

[brsingr]

that was pretty deep, grim. especially the part about mustard. wait, what?

[Pali]

*facepalm* You people just love to think that picture is me...

[Mindflayer]

It's off by about 200lbs

[Grim_Reefer]

I snapped this while Pali was showing me how to make a kick *** cheeseburger and I told him there was a rod of time in the parking lot.

[Pali]

It's off by about 200lbs

That, and he also doesn't have nearly enough facial hair. I enjoy my full beard.

And Grim is lying. Simple proof? I suck at cooking anything, much less making an awesome cheeseburger (and I rarely have mustard on mine anyways ).