"Ground Zero Mosque"

[Pali]

Anyone have any thoughts regarding the proposed Islamidc community center a couple of blocks from "Ground Zero"? Personally, I am entirely supportive of it being constructed for a variety of reasons, which I'm willing to elaborate on if anyone's curious.

I fully recognize that this is a political/social/religious subject that some may find controversial or emotional, and that certain opinions on the subject may be found offensive by others. I enjoy discussions of such topics, and if you do not, please understand that I'm not trying to annoy you by bringing them up - simply stop reading at this point and I hope nothing will have bothered you thus far. If it has, don't worry, it just means we disagree on something, and hopefully we both agree that that's okay.

P.S. Also, please, keep any responses as impersonal as possible.

[Kyzarius]

Hatred and fear based on race is ugly no matter what side you are on.

I see no problem with it, I think accepting it would be proving that we are the better people.

[KRins]

Technically Islam is not a race, it is a religion... just as Jewish is not a nationality. I see no issue with it as a person, but one thing everyone must remember is that hate begets hate. The families of the people who died on 9/11, the firefighters who are wondering why they made it and the guy they worked with for years didn't, and the police officers who had a near endless list of friends and coworkers to bury were affected by hate. Whether it is or is not the "right" thing, some of those people are going to have hate and fear which in their mind is justified by the forever altered skyline and the lives lost. While I hope everyone will be sensitive to the right of the Islamic community in the area to practice, I hope everyone will be just as sensitive to a place that marked the deaths of hundreds of innocent people and heroes dressed in police uniforms or flame retardant bunker pants. That address should not be considered JUST an address in my mind, it is a place that deserves a certain respect from EVERYONE. It is the site of one of the worst events in American history. If I could do it my way, I would restrict all religiously affiliated buildings at least a few blocks away. Whether you are Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, or a Pastafarian... we can all agree the dead deserve remembrance, not a stupid divisive argument about whether or not a building should be used for a certain purpose. We, as a people, have grown FAR too petty...

[mya]

I think that forbidding the Mosque is a double standard for the US. It certainly goes against the "rule of law".

Forbidding all religious building in a radius, would be more just. But it's irrational. Catholics/Buddhists did nothing to deserve such a thing.

So in my opinion they should be allowed to build.

Something about me, I personally do not like Islam, and would approve of it's outlawing in western countries, due to the existing civilization conflict. But that is another story.

[abghoul]

Only party profiting from this building is the media-indrustry, neither the muslim nor any american.

That is of course a view from far over the ocean.

Although the ones planning it, might do so to encrease the social position of mediocore american muslim, in the east this will be abused to gain influence for the more radical branches.

For instance, the Shiites are working hard on the poor folk in the east theese days, money for converting and the like, not unlikely they will turn this discussion about "Ground Zero Mosque" to their fortune.

The ones to draw back from this are by any means the muslim in america, if they dont get the hazard they are cooking up and built their mosque elsewhere they might regret it some day, not only because of their mosque might be blown up , but cause they will be blamed as opportunists in the east and loose influence to the footfolk.

In short, it is not forbidden to built the mosque there, but very stupid thing to do.

By the way, i am pantheist, although i use to hang out with some muslim.

[Grim_Reefer]

I saw someone on Facebook say something along the lines of, "Its like building a nazi memorial next to Auschwitz."... They ended up removing it after I tore the poster and everyone with supportive comments a new one for all of their friends to see. I don't see a problem. Grow up, America.

[EtsoShex]

I wouldn't enjoy it if, above their mosque they had a big neon arrow pointing directly to the empty hunk of land where the WTC was. Or if there were big letters "HAHAHA" over the roof or something.

But honestly, if they're building a mosque to celebrate terrorist attacks, would it matter where they put it? Whatever happened to the religious freedom the USA was founded on?

[f0xx]

...hate begets hate. The families of the people who died on 9/11...

You should really hate your government then, I guess.

[Croyvern]

Seems logical to me that we let them build it. This would ultimately reduce the over all chances of a second attack right there woul it not? I mean it just figures they are less likely to blow up an alter to their own God. Personally I just do not wish to see this piece of earth to be the center of interest for religious leaders for the next five hundred years. We already have one "holy mound" on this planet and people have been killing each other to have it for over a thousand years. JMO

[Mali]

I support their right to build while frowning upon their religion and culture.

[mmajunkie]

It's not even on the same block as ground zero, it's a couple blocks away. It's not just a prayer center, it is a community center. They already have a mosque in that area. You won't even be able to see the thing from ground zero.

If only people did their own research.

[Twinblades713]

If I wanted to be controversial, I would say it's the perfect enemy tactic. Let the hate flow. If I wanted to be accepting but realistic, I would say why the **** would a peace loving religion even want to step near the biggest wound that extremists of their religion has given America?

I'm Catholic, and I know what kind of wrong **** has happened within our priesthood. We've heard the jokes, more and more people I find think the whole religion is a joke. I'm not about to move every priest who offended families right next door to those families just to prove that they're 'nice' now.

If the Muslims who are trying to build this place would realize they have the right to build there, and choose to build somewhere else for the sake of respecting the reality that some members of their religion are evil and have killed more people than they know,I would respect their right to build more. If I personally knew someone who was raped by a Catholic priest, I wouldn't tell him to get over it and come back to church. And I'm Catholic - That's hard to say for me.

[mya]

Twinblades, the Church is made by men. And men are flawed. One should not blame the church as a whole for the sins of some of it's men. True that the church is to lenient with this crimes, but they are men to.

Dam F0xx, I would love to catch you in a 9/11 origins debate. But this is not the place.

[f0xx]

Dam F0xx' date=' I would love to catch you in a 9/11 origins debate. But this is not the place. [/quote']

Hehe, indeed

[jibber]

I know it's been 9 years since the catastrophe, or whatever everyone wants to call it.. but it's a free country. If we jump off of that boat, we'll never learn to forgive our brothers or learn to face others ideals.

That being said.. if I had a choice in the matter, I'd tell them to find some place else. There's plenty of space elsewhere...

[mmajunkie]

They aren't building at ground zero, they are building a couple blocks away and out of sight.

[jibber]

Anywhere near the general populace of New York City is not the place I personally would like them to build it, regardless.

[mmajunkie]

Well it's a little late for that...mosque's already exist in quantity in NYC. This isn't even a full fledged prayer center lol

[jibber]

I know a Mosque already exists in NYC. If it was built after the catastrophe, shame on them. If it was built before and still stands, fine by me.

But building another? .. build it elsewhere. I don't care if it's a couple of blocks away or not. You already have one there.

[Pali]

My problem with the lines of thinking that it's too close/too soon is simple: what isn't too close or too soon? You're drawing an entirely arbitrary line no matter what you say as your answer to that question.

And while I am hardly a fan of Islam, it is wrong to treat all Muslims as culprits in 9/11.

[KRins]

You should really hate your government then' date=' I guess.[/quote']

For stomping mudholes in the asses of people who kill others because they can and then walking it dry all over there faces? Nah... that's the only thing the US government does right my man. Remember this, since you are semi-close to the Balkans... ethnic cleansing doesn't stop without US bombs. We catch a lot of flak for wanting to be the world's police... but damn people cry for US aid a lot...

All that being said, we are a democratic nation... the fairest way is a referendum of all of new york city residents. Technically they are the only people who are involuntarily affected by this issue. I mean... if you visit the city, you choose to come. If you work in the city and not live here, once again that is your choice.

[mya]

Some reminders. NATO, is not just the USA. The Balkans thing was something that was wrongly handled in my opinion by many countries. But I give them credit for the unusual good intentions in the UN mission.

Also, the USA is not the police of the World, their wars serve their own interests. The Police of the World are the Blue Helmets, UN sanctioned troops. Which can range from honorable aid to raping bastards, depending on the nationality/people who compose the UN troops.

US catch flak because their are self-righteous, convinced and have an oblivion population of the real reasons of war.

Wars are not fought for Liberty and Freedom. Those are Revolutions. Wars are fought for Power, Influence and Economical motives, no matter what propaganda says.

Take a look at what happened to Françe. The moment they opposed US invasion of Iraq due to French Economic/Oil interests in the area, they are ridiculed by publicly by US media/citizens in a propaganda campaign. Another great moment for the US. This kind of behavior is why most people do not like US.

[Dale]

Also' date=' the USA is not the police of the World, their wars serve their own interests.[/quote']

Dude, I can't believe you said that. Ofcoarse we have fought wars in our own interest, but occasionally we come out to just help aswell. Much of the population is oblivious, but not everyone here is the same. As I am sure same can be said for your country. Everyone hates on the US, but you are all just a bunch of haters.

[Volgathras]

Watch your step from here.

[mya]

Dale, try to discuss this kind of things in an impersonal way.

You are right, in that "I am sure same can be said for your country". But we are not a bunch of hatters.

Sure we resent greatly USA arrogance, but that does not mean that we hate you. Come to Europe and see. We can bitch and moan, but you can be sure Europe stands by US.

We are the same civilization. The Western Civilization. Remember that USA was founded by Europeans not long ago.