/rants at no one in particular

[mmajunkie]

As the game continues to mature and evolve and new rules are added in, modified, or taken out, it seems like the general attitude of the playerbase changes with it.

From times when gang vs gang cabal warfare was rampant, everyone was free game for PK, and 50evils killed 42goodies because that's what good vs evil is all about.

Then the ganging thing became too much. That turned into a breakdown on ganging classifications. Gang? No it was a tag! No it was a People seem to think they should be immune to being attack from anyone for X amount of hours when someone attacks them. No matter how hard you try, eventually someone is going to tell you "I'm engaged with so-and-so" ....and? More than one person wants you dead, we've all been there and it made us all tougher and better players. You want me to go play hop skotch with a thumb up my butt while you and so-and-so have fun? Sorry.

Enter Cabal Interference Mandate. Cabaled people are now immune to attack from anyone else except rival cabals within a 2 room proximity of their cabal. Doesn't matter if they've engaged anyone or not. If they stole a standard without ever being attacked, ran to their cabal and returned it, and stood one room away from teh cabal...you were not allowed to attack them or you got slayed. Didn't matter for any reason, if you attacked them in that 2 room place, you were in deep doodoo. I fought this rule so hard and was made a mockery because of it....and then the same person who mocked me revoked it.

Time moved on and people began to complain about full looting. This was common practice for a long time by the vast majority. Soon after every full loot you got the proverbial tell "You take everything?! You bastard!"

Enter PK tiers and still, Ruthless characters whine if you even take one item. Let alone the moderates who are sure to ask why you killed them. I've gone from full looting to only taking things I personally need...and still, almost everytime "You take my things?" Go roll moderate you sissy.

I feel like there is a checklist you need to have beside your computer now to PK in FL.

1. Is your target in area with another person?

2. Was there a person you passed on the way here that might have been in the area?

3. Is your target fighting currently?

4. Do you think they -might- be fighting that person you just passed?

5. Is he lower leveled than you?

6. Is he neutral?

7. Is it possible he is neutral?

8. Does your wannabe-cabal have members on that are vendetta'd with your target?

If you've answered yes to any of these questions you better not attack or your reputation will be called into question or someone is gonna be spamming your screen begging for a tissue to clear the tears of injustice that are being cried.

Now we have a massively smaller pbase and etiquette seems to play a much larger role in the game. With a larger pbase, you expect things to take time, because things are worth more. With a smaller pbase, you expect faster, more exciting things since mathematically it should be easier to manage and in a business sense, you need to keep your clients happy since you don't have many to choose from, especially not quality ones.

The forum seems like a hang-out for a bunch of know-it-alls (myself included) who can't wait to prance on the next person they see who says something wrong or steps out of line or whatever. Used to be the place to come to for not only that, but to read tons of RP/PK logs, find out who Festy is sleeping with, laugh at Bryntryst, try to figure out if Behrens is ever gonna get an IMM, read Gomanhor's newsletter....

So many hoops to jump through to get what you want, a headache to get the eq you want, hours and hours to get into the cabal you want, a rulebook the size of Manhattan....all so you can sit online and look at a who list filled with 8 other people and either hope someone will RP with you or that you can find someone to PK that isn't already involved in a PK with someone else.

What are we doing to change any of this? Malchaeius had a vision and a goal...no idea why he isn't here anymore or why he gave up on that. But it's up to us now to make FL grow and become that place again. I may sound like I resent this game somehow, but I still play here more than anyone else. There's a reason I'm still here almost every night at 4am logged on as the only person online. I love this game, just like every one of you. Despise whatever I happen to think about it's current state or quality or whatever...I am and have been for the past several years devoted to bringing quality RP to this game and doing anything I can to help make this MUD grow.

There's no right way or wrong way to do this, there's no easy solution. It's a multi-faceted issue that faces this game. What certainly does not help it is the lack of draw when a new person logs in. Many, many ways to counter that and all I can do is my part, which is play a well developed character and try to reach out and RP with anyone that I can. I hope that you all are doing the same when you can.

If I thought people would support my efforts, I'd become an outreach advocate to help this MUD grow. I've tried contributing in several ways, all of which were either ignored or shot down, so I'm at a loss in this department.

Had a bad day today, just wanted to let out some steam and share some random/useless thoughts. Don't have to like me or agree, but don't let this thread turn into Me vs. You. PM me if you want to flame me...I enjoy a good argument. Other than that...what would people like to see more or less of in the game today? Faster apps? More IMM plots? I personally feel the IMMs interact a lot more these days than they had been about 12-16 months ago when I was here last. Some smaller in-game events like we used to have? Weddings, auctions, etc? What sort of things can we DIRECTLY affect in the game to help attract/keep new players? I've got plenty of thoughts on it.

[Twinblades713]

I would love to return to the days of smash others or don't survive, and you actually might know me as a proponent of no ganging/tagging, etc. Well I am, but only because how I learned was the tough way. Then we get our conservative 90's of the FL world. If it looks like you might have thought about tagging him, you did and you're demoted/slain whatever. So yes, I don't like that but ONLY because I hate double standards. If I am going to get dinged every time I even look like it was a tag then I am certainly going to be resentful if I feel I'm getting ganged/tagged. The act itself in a game does not bother me. It's the double standard and I hate it. That said, I think we've become more newbie friendly and able to expand, but really straying from the birthplace of FL.

It seems like it would make more sense to play how we used to, but perhaps to curve it for newbies, make everyone HAVE to be newbie ( Oh sorry, moderate. ) tier until they have some number of pks, five or so. That way, people who don't want to pk get to have that protection. People who want to just get at it will lose the flag soon enough.

I am by no stretch the best player here, and I find it fairly easy to survive. I remember when I started playing and death was around EVERY freaking corner. I loved that ****. It made it feel more real and less sandboxy.

[Aulian]

The forum seems like a hang-out for a bunch of know-it-alls (myself included) who can't wait to prance on the next person they see who says something wrong or steps out of line or whatever.

You're wrong and the line isnt even in sight anymore

[mmajunkie]

I'm all for that being nicer if it brings people...but our trend is a declining pbase, not a growing one. We're all here from the era of kill or be killed...the majority of the people who come to this MUD will want/expect a ruthless 50PK scene. Tighten down on PK at the lower levels so they dont get discouraged....but at the 50 range, anything goes. Extreme trash and people who gang just to gang should be getting the shaft in their cabals, etc. But people who gang up to take down decked knight leader crusader....people who multikill u when u run ur mouth until ur condead or logged off....all that ruthless activity at 50 breeds competition and human nature will guide them right back to rolling another character because no one wants to "lose" at FL.

I don't believe in ganging either, I think it's trash. REAL ganging is trash...jumping in on two people fighting when you have no intent other than getting a cheap kill or getting back OOCly at someone. I've got no problem waiting for one of u to die and then attacking the winner immediately. I've got on problem watching you blackjack someone and then me bashing u before u can steal from them. That's NOT trash...that's FL.

But because we've started to started to go soft on everyone people think they are granted this exclusive PK shield because of paltry rules. They think they can run their mouth to you and you won't/can't do anything about it. They think you are going to just sit there and watch while they pry crap from your cabalmate. They think they are perfectly safe fighting 1 person in an area with 4 people in it. We used to flee and gtfo of dodge for fear of being ganged back in the day. You learned to be scared and watch your back and always be alert. You didn't stand there and think "Pfft, they can't attack me Im fighting someone...if they do, I'll prayer forum it and laugh as they wait another 2 weeks to get cabaled"

[Twinblades713]

You are very eloquent on the subject, and I agree with nearly all of that. I remember real gangers used to just get cabal raped by their imm for being a douche in general. IT used to be survival of the fittest/most paranoid, now it's like a zoo. All the classes are there, but the conflict is tamed to almost nothing. I feel like we're all Gladiators.

[mmajunkie]

What you see now is people playing and then logging off as soon as that decked cabal person getting on...or that decked cabal person just not playing much anymore. I mean I would go into detail but I don't want to call people out. Some super decked people DO play...but no one fights them, other decked people in opposing cabals aren't ever seen fighting that other decked opposing cabal member.

This game seems so much about prestige rather than honor/victory. Back in the day you couldn't wait to fight that decked knight or decked nexus. Now it's...lemme do all the gear/deso trips I can. Maybe kill one or two people, get my holy crap decked suit....and then sit back and chill while people adore/respect me and make me think I've actually accomplished something. But I can't fight anyone other than half-decked people playing classes that are at a disadvantage vs me. And I can't play too long and risk too much exposure, so I'll play 59 alts as well.

And with the rare count the way it is, those half dozen very decked people who won't fight each other just steamroll over the rest of the player base, a couple people scattered across the 50 range might have 2-3 good pieces each, but not enough to go up agaisnt the guy with +3 spell lvl and ridiculous saves, etc

please note that this isn't ALL people...I know a couple super decked people who love to fight anyone/everyone. But I also can name a few whom I see on VERY rarely and I honestly can't say I've ever seen them in a PK over the course of 2 or 3 months and 5 50s ive had here.

[abghoul]

MMAman yer so right, but what to do about it?

Seems to me,

the aim of the game for most of the folk is not havin fun with the crowd,

but to gain and hold superiority by any means necessary, shamelessly,

thats a general phenomenon though.

"Me soooo OWNZ thee" attitude is very common beyond the forsaken lands.

So its no wonder one has to deal with it in the game as well.

[Vee]

I think a big problem facing the game today is a dwindling pbase and i think one of the first priorities to fix this should be getting the actual main website up with a "donate now" link so that we can contribute and get a paid listing on one of the mud voting sites. Thats my two cents.

[Croyvern]

I feel like we're all Gladiators.

Nailed it bro. This is the trouble, eventually we all play a WM. I have heard the immortals here actually suggest that playing a WM is the best way to learn PK. Being a WM is all about honorable combat. Not so for a nexus, watcher, or syndi. Personally I would rather get gang raped by a pair of nexians than to have them tell me they have too much honor to do such a thing. I guess it comes down to either having bad RP or bad PK. On full looting, if I am in your enemies cabal, you should take all my stuff. Why leave me dressed to return on you? Are you wanting to make it a fair fight? If so you better be a darn WM and not a nexus. JMHO

Edit: If you can not gather your EQ again after someone full loots you, than you should not have had it to begin with. Use only what you know where to find and can aquire alone. You will not get as mad if you do not have to wait for your six friends to come online and walk you to gear/desolation for the umteenth time.

Edit II: I am not trying to offend anyone here ^^. But this game has always been a rough sport. If you wish to be somebody in it, you are going to have to get tough and die. To be successful you will have to lose all your stuff enough times that you can get dressed again quickly. I do not advocate gang PK, as most of you do not. But think about halloween, everybody gets into the gang mentality. And even today in FL there are RP reasons at times to do something that others will consider gang warfare. An example being defending a standard, or using that skill the immortals gave your class "rescue". Your rant got me to thinking MMA, heck brought me on off the porch and away from my coffee, and I don't let anyone or anything get in between me and my coffee. Nice points.

[Anume]

There is a difference between tagging a newbie / average player already busy with cabal wf just to show your superiority and stroke your own ego and tagging to bring down someone who is decked out and would probably be bored with fighting just one opponent. It's also a difference if this happens from time to time or on a regular basis.

Rule of thumb is, would I be able to beat this guy easily alone? If yes, there is really no need to tag / gang him.

[Bert]

Just some general thoughts and a different viewpoint...

First off, the moderate deal. For those of you that think us "Sissys" play it, **** off. I absolutely hate playing moderate because it feels like I'm gimped, yet I do just to be able to still play. Most of the time I can only play just a few hours a week. If I'm geared up in average rares, ruthless, and take a big loot it could take me 2 or more RL weeks to get back to where I was. That just sucks the will to play right out of me. I feel completely different when I have more time on my hands. I never even considered being moderate until my available playtime nosedived.

I've had a lot more time to play this last week, and consequently started up my fav class as a ruthless. This seems to be my endless cycle.

Ganging: you all have lingo for all sorts of things... tagging? x vs 1 I personally try to avoid unless I'm playing a DK. If I am, I'll take every possible opportunity to kill one of you. I expect the same thing from any DK I see. They stroll in and fireball me after I sit wounded from a challenge I don't get pissed, just jealous of that easy feed they just got. It took me actually playing a DK to feel this way though.

What annoys the hell out of me is when an opposing cabal member logs in and systematically destroys the few members of my cabal that are logged in, then I can't convince them to stand together. If its cabal warfare and I'm repeatedly getting my *** kicked in, I'm bringing backup to the next battle. And if we were to win, I'd try to loot em enough to drop their power spike to a level I'm better able to handle. This is the extreme case however.

I can't seem to convince members of this though. They seem content being spread out fighting 1 on 1 and losing. Over and over. Maybe this is carry over from the history some of you spoke of.

Looting : this will always be a touchy subject I think. For those times I've actually won, I may take 1 or 2 pieces IF they were things I was looking for, I never EVER take backpacks, though I may pick them up/drop them to look inside and learn about new ones. That is just a personal thing because I loathe having to gather up all the consumables that just went poof, so I don't do it to other people. I guess I basically loot people how I would want to be looted, which changes slightly under different circumstances.

I play this game because I love the thrill of PK. If I beat you the very LAST thing I want to do is full loot. That would mean its going to take HOURS before you come back to try to get revenge. Thats HOURS of me sitting around with my thumb up my ***. Please, grab an easy replacement for the 1 or 2 things I took and come try to kill me.

Ideally, my logins would go like this:

* Login, check consumables, grab a few if need be. Check quickly for an upgrade to EQ/Weapons. Maybe 10 minutes have past.

* Find someone I want to kill and get it going. I really enjoy the more lengthy battles where there are several engagements as each tries to gain the upper hand. Either win or lose the battle. It needs closure. Hopefully this took around 20-30 minutes.

* RP a little over our battle.

* Replenish consumables, and my time is probably up at around 1 hour.

------

[Anume]

If its cabal warfare and I'm repeatedly getting my *** kicked in, I'm bringing backup to the next battle.

------

This is usually fine in most cabals unless the cabal's rp or your chars rp does not allow it.

[mya]

I have zero problems with Tagging, and will tag often.

If you dare attack me, I will only stop when I kill you or I get bored (or you spank me to hard).

That means that if you suddenly attack another player or he attacks you, I will keep going for you. I try to make sure that we are not engaged at the same time, but other than that I'm harassing you. It's your responsibility to manage your reputation/enemies agro, not mine.

That said, if you are getting trashed I get borred quickly and go RP. Or sometimes decide that the afront of having someone hunting my pray is to great and attack them, creating a PK triangle.

What is this about Cabal interference? Wasn't that crap revoged?

If one cannot stand the heat, one runs and forsake the standard. Standard serves you, not you the standard.

[f0xx]

(or you spank me to hard).

Nothing feels better than spanking Mya, I'll tell you that

[Bert]

Nothing feels better than spanking Mya, I'll tell you that

I was expecting this thread to spiral out of control, but not quite like what is probably to come...

[f0xx]

I was expecting this thread to spiral out of control' date=' but not quite like what is probably to come...[/quote']

They sent me from damage control...

[Imoutgoodbye]

This reminds me....I need to start a Herald sometime around December.....

God, I miss this.

[f0xx]

This reminds me....I need to start a Herald sometime around December.....

God, I miss this.

No please, not a herald. Roll something like... a dark knight. We could use the fodder

[Imoutgoodbye]

No please' date=' not a herald. Roll something like... a dark knight. We could use the fodder [/quote']

Nope. After reading over this entire post, you need critical thinking only a Herald can bring.

[mmajunkie]

Just some general thoughts and a different viewpoint...

First off, the moderate deal. For those of you that think us "Sissys" play it, **** off. I absolutely hate playing moderate because it feels like I'm gimped, yet I do just to be able to still play. Most of the time I can only play just a few hours a week. If I'm geared up in average rares, ruthless, and take a big loot it could take me 2 or more RL weeks to get back to where I was. That just sucks the will to play right out of me. I feel completely different when I have more time on my hands. I never even considered being moderate until my available playtime nosedived.

I've had a lot more time to play this last week, and consequently started up my fav class as a ruthless. This seems to be my endless cycle.

Ganging: you all have lingo for all sorts of things... tagging? x vs 1 I personally try to avoid unless I'm playing a DK. If I am, I'll take every possible opportunity to kill one of you. I expect the same thing from any DK I see. They stroll in and fireball me after I sit wounded from a challenge I don't get pissed, just jealous of that easy feed they just got. It took me actually playing a DK to feel this way though.

What annoys the hell out of me is when an opposing cabal member logs in and systematically destroys the few members of my cabal that are logged in, then I can't convince them to stand together. If its cabal warfare and I'm repeatedly getting my *** kicked in, I'm bringing backup to the next battle. And if we were to win, I'd try to loot em enough to drop their power spike to a level I'm better able to handle. This is the extreme case however.

I can't seem to convince members of this though. They seem content being spread out fighting 1 on 1 and losing. Over and over. Maybe this is carry over from the history some of you spoke of.

Looting : this will always be a touchy subject I think. For those times I've actually won, I may take 1 or 2 pieces IF they were things I was looking for, I never EVER take backpacks, though I may pick them up/drop them to look inside and learn about new ones. That is just a personal thing because I loathe having to gather up all the consumables that just went poof, so I don't do it to other people. I guess I basically loot people how I would want to be looted, which changes slightly under different circumstances.

I play this game because I love the thrill of PK. If I beat you the very LAST thing I want to do is full loot. That would mean its going to take HOURS before you come back to try to get revenge. Thats HOURS of me sitting around with my thumb up my ***. Please, grab an easy replacement for the 1 or 2 things I took and come try to kill me.

Ideally, my logins would go like this:

* Login, check consumables, grab a few if need be. Check quickly for an upgrade to EQ/Weapons. Maybe 10 minutes have past.

* Find someone I want to kill and get it going. I really enjoy the more lengthy battles where there are several engagements as each tries to gain the upper hand. Either win or lose the battle. It needs closure. Hopefully this took around 20-30 minutes.

* RP a little over our battle.

* Replenish consumables, and my time is probably up at around 1 hour.

------

I completely understand the pains of re-eqing after a full loot. I understand the need for a moderate teir. I'm not against any of that...I am against players who cry about it in game when they get one or two pieces taken from them. I really do stand behind any change this game has made to help NEW players. It kinda sickens my stomach when rules like the cabal interference mandate get added that protect higher ranked cabal people and make my task killing them as an uncabaled even harder. I thought the mandate was great in a lot of respects, but I did not think it should apply in certain situations (when the person has not been engaged in PK for 10+ ticks) etc

I think the reason people won't join together in PK is fear of being in trouble or their character being drawn into a bad light. If you DO kill that person, what do you think will happen? They are going to tell everyone they know that you ganged them. Then you will become the target of gangs. Some Immortal might hear the story wrong and decide to not give you that cabal promo you've been waiting on for 3 weeks. It is also a matter of personal pride....knowing that I had to gang someone to kill them does not make me feel good.

I try very, very hard here to always be my character and not my player. I have broken rules that I knew were in place revolving PK simply because there is no way my character would have just sat there and allowed it to happen. For instance:

I camped Salith's cabal for something like 45 in game hours, calling him out, attacking his cabal, etc. He did nothing at all but sit there in his cabal. Then some weakling Nexus came around and Salith popped out to fight him? Yeah, screw that...I walked up and attacked him while he was fighting. Was it against the rules? Yes. Was it proper RP? Absolutely yes. I sometimes find it hard to distinguish the two....something I'm working on :-(

Nothing is cut and dry in this MUD.

[mmajunkie]

What is this about Cabal interference? Wasn't that crap revoged?

If one cannot stand the heat, one runs and forsake the standard. Standard serves you, not you the standard.

It was revoked, as stated in the original post...I was just kinda reliving the history, as it were.

[Kyzarius]

I was just kinda reliving the history' date=' as it was.[/quote']

Full looting, ganging, all of it...

Just think, before you're about to do something; am I being a douche, if the answer is a maybe to a yes in your mind, then dont do it.

[jibber]

edit edit.