Savant vs. Warmaster

[Hilltop]

I'm looking but can't find the answer to this. Why are Savant and Warmaster always at war? I understand the OOC reason of melee vs mage but in game was there something large that brought it about? I just doubt that all of the in years game of war between the two are simply because Warmasters don't like Savants studying magic. After all they don't go after every mage in the lands.

[jibber]

Never liked the RP of Warmaster versus Savant myself. I think the RP needs to be changed to shun those that use magic, and barbarian needs to be reworked so they don't use magic either.

Just me, though.

[Balgashang]

I agree, and I think communers should be out of savant, but thats prolly more extreme. I'd allow ninjas/dk's spellCASTing hybrids in.

[Kyzarius]

a dk...savant?

my god man...you do not even know what you are suggesting with this madness.

[Dale]

Drows only, lost certain skills, bash trip dirt kick.

[Hilltop]

Might just be me but I'd think they'd get along. Out of the cabals they're the two that focus on knowledge and self improvement the most be it mentally or physically.

[The-Nameless]

I will take temporum DK as a drow if I lose bash trip and dirt kick. Sign me the **** up.

[Dale]

I like how hilltop tried to re-rail the thread and Emp came in with F-that! I want drow dk savant!

[Archbishop Monk]

I will take temporum DK as a drow if I lose bash trip and dirt kick. Sign me the **** up.

Hell and NO! I was thanking Anume when they took them out in the first place (along with vamps : shudder. Elowyn(sp?) anyone?) No, no hybrids ninjas or thieves in Savant. If so, I'll never play anything else but a Savant and push for them to add couping:D .

[Hilltop]

I like how hilltop tried to re-rail the thread and Emp came in with F-that! I want drow dk savant!

Yeah this train's in China, just gonna enjoy the ride.

[Croyvern]

What did Jaspurr preach? Oh yeah Self Reliance. I take this age old war to be the unavoidable conflict that this presents. Warmasters rely on themselves to train their bodies in preparation for any and all circumstances. Savants rely on their ability to sharpen their minds into weapons keen enough to penetrate any defense. From a Warmasters perspective the Savants cheat and use tricks of the mind to dishonor the Camp and make it look foolish. From a Savant point of view, the Warmasters represent all that is wrong with the world, those who seek to use sheer brutality to force their opinions on people who should be allowed to think for themselves. Maybe I have it wrong, but it has always been my take on it.

[Hilltop]

I get that, but with that rp it makes no sense that Warmasters don't attack every mage and Savants don't attack every melee. What you wrote is as far as I know it but does it make sense for years and years of violence? There's mages outside Savant and melee outside Warmaster so by now they should've realized that destroying the other cabal isn't going to stop people from choosing their own path. By this time I'd think they'd ally together, Warmasters being masters of tactics and war they'd realize the potential at having masters of mind and body allied.

[Dale]

Why would thived be added into savant? I think they should be removed from Warmaster as it is. Just doesn't seem right.

[Hilltop]

I agree' date=' and I think communers should be out of savant, but thats prolly more extreme. I'd allow [b']ninjas/dk's spellCASTing hybrids in.

Huh Dale?

[Croyvern]

You are making more out of it than you need to.

Savants represent those mages who might inspire others to believe that the mind is stronger than the body. They are "figure heads".

And of course vice versa.

Its like democrats and repuplicans, it starts out as simple idealogical beliefs based on personal experiences. So and so decides to be a democrat. After years and years of hearing the othersides propaganda. this democrat decides he just doesn't like any repuplican. Now we all know, there can be good, intelligent "figure heads" on either side, but it does not compromise our basic beliefs. A savant could be inspired by the overall character of a warmaster, but it does not mean the warmaster will get his vote. Because sooner or later, that warmaster is going to say or do something that is so outrageous that the savant will be forced to lose faith in him.

Why did I go political? Because Cabals have been a politics game since the first age.

[Hilltop]

Maybe you're right, I'm just over complicating things.

[Kyzarius]

I have been trying to extend the lore of the Savant in game..

what the tower is...how it isnt a damn library at all.

[jibber]

I love the RP of Savant, and I love the RP of Warmaster. Other than game balance and mechanics (how each cabal should have an arch-enemy) I see no reason why both should be at each other's throats. While some of you make some AWESOME points, I still don't think that would commit anyone to fight a war like that, with just those as base points.

[samag08]

I've always viewed the two cabals as elitist's in their own minds. A simple example in this world would take you inside a gym. There is always some hulking guy in there who has less intelligence than the dumbells he is heaving. Because he is massive, in his mind he rules the coup so to speak. Fast foreword to the extremely intelligent, well educated, yet miniscule man. He takes one look at the barbarian and instantly feels a sense of superiority. This is usually not an issue in most cases as both look upon the other with some sense of pity. The problem arises however when one of them declares themselves superior. Then the debate of sorts begins.

[Imoutgoodbye]

You know what I'm waiting to see?

A monk who departs warmaster, makes psion, and then goes to Savant....now THAT would cause some intense hatred.

[Mindflayer]

You know what I'm waiting to see?

A monk who departs warmaster, makes psion, and then goes to Savant....now THAT would cause some intense hatred.

EPIC :eek:

[mya]

You forget Bards. Bards like DK's are accomplished casters.

Ninjas get a handfull of spells. Rangers get Change weather/Call Lightning. Blademasters also have some spells.

But thieves have zero spells.

And yes, Communers in Savant makes my eyes go tingle.

But I understand, due to Divine Magic being the same as Arcane Magic.

At the very least those should be in two separate factions.

Mysterium and Temporum should get scraped and made new with Divine vs Arcane.

Then cut the forced spells and give like 15 avaiable spells per faction and use SELECT to allow people to chose 7 of those.

You get re-playability and difference in one masterstroke.

Just to add that the whole Time thing concept behind the tower is also awful.

There are many venues of power in Magic, Time control should be only one of them.

[f0xx]

Mysterium and Temporum should get scraped and made new with Divine vs Arcane.

Just to add that the whole Time thing concept behind the tower is also awful.

There are many venues of power in Magic, Time control should be only one of

them.

I've been preaching for that for so long.

The current separation between Temporum (aggressive) and Mysterum (passive) is awful. Not to mention that Mysterum spells are completely lacking while Tempurum are some of the best. The whole SAVANT caballed is centered around clerics. The two separate factions should be based on ARCANE and DIVINE magic.

Also, as Mya said, "Just to add that the whole Time thing concept behind the tower is also awful. There are many venues of power in Magic, Time control should be only one of them."

I also am not a big fan of Warmaster separation either. A lot of people think that barbarians are not honorable when that is NOT the case. Both factions are supposed to be honorable, it's just their fighting style that differs them from each other. The skills and gameplay on the other hand is very well balanced in WM. I just think we need a new RP angle...

[Pali]

This is a topic I brought up years ago, when the Warmasters lost their anti-magic focus and I felt they and Savant no longer had any reason to always be at war.

The answer I got was, in a nutshell, that Savant is, in the end, attempting to convert the world to using magic as their primary means of sustenance - Warmaster, on the other hand, is attempting to convert the world in favor of self-reliance and primarily physical means of sustenance. I'm still not entirely convinced that these two world-views should necessarily be in conflict... but it helps to view the two not so much as organizations going against each other, but as religious sects (Magic and Combat respectively) at war with each other, along the lines of Good vs Evil in most respects. Each preaches an opposing message - magic versus might.

[kaboomer]

I think it has something to do with that tower and what it means, meant, and will mean. It takes some incredibly abstract thinking to make this RP angle work.

I give props to Sepahoona for trying to add a new "dimension" (pun intended) to this slowly-dying RP angle.