A view on the new XP penalties.

[mya]

As you know we have a new XP penalties for combos.

• Human 100 extra
  
• Feral 175 extra
  
• Gnome 75 extra
  
• Storm 25 extra
  
• Stone 50 extra
  
• Werebeast 125 extra
  
• Fire 225 extra
  
• Half-Elf 0 extra
  
• Ogre 450 extra
  
• Avian 250 extra
  
• Dwarf 275 extra
  
• Duergar 300 extra
  
• Halfling 350 extra
  
• Slith 150 extra
  
• Minotaur 200 extra
  
• Illithid 425 extra
  
• Elf 375 extra
  
• Drow 400 extra
  
• Faerie 325 extra

• Warrior 225 exp extra
  
• Thief 75 exp extra
  
• Bard 0 exp extra
  
• Battlemage 325 exp extra
  
• Invoker 350 exp extra
  
• Necromancer 275 exp extra
  
• Cleric 250 exp extra
  
• Healer 50 exp extra
  
• Shaman 375 exp extra
  
• Ranger 300 exp extra
  
• Berserker 25 exp extra
  
• Ninja 150 exp extra
  
• Monks 100 exp extra
  
• Dark-Knight 200 exp extra
  
• Druid 125 exp extra
  
• Blademaster 400 exp extra
  
• Paladin 175 exp extra
  

One of the first things that strikes the eye, is that the 0 xp race is no longer humans, but Half-Elfs.

While the incentive to play Half Elves is interesting, the fact that Humans now have a 100 xp penalty is mind-boggling.

Since humans have no inherent bonus, except access to every race. While half-elves have almost the same stats except biased towards Dex/Int, a learning bonus and a Charm resistance (Sleep('s), Silence and others).

To make things even worse, giant races like Stone (50xp) and Storm (25xp) have an even inferior XP penalty.

This totally ruins any incentive to play a Human melees except when applying for Undead.

Strangely, all of the power Meele races except Ogres are now Low XP races. Minotaurs are now 200 xp and Sliths 150, both heavily bonuses races, with no vulnerability. Only Dwarves/Duergars have a moderate XP penalty being able to become Clerics.

Then we come to Classes.

In the old system all Mages/Casters had no XP penalty. This insured that they had a fairer PK range since they are quite less powerful than Meeles at the Lower Levels. Their Penalty was normally associated with choosing a more favorable race.

Now every mage class has more than 250 XP penalty. Quite above any other meele class except Blademasters and Rangers. This makes no sense, except direct less experienced players towards Melee.

In sum, we left a old XP system that had little problems (except Warriors low XP and Half-Elves high XP) to a system that penalizes every combo that is not a HAlf-elf Bard.

The Half Elf problem could have been solved easily by changing them to 0 xp and giving them racial adventurer perk. Instead of increasing every class XP pen and consequently the time grinding for everyone.

[f0xx]

I'll try your advice anume

[mya]

Just to give a few common power combos XP cost for reference:

Mino Warrior Old: 500 Xp -> New: 425xp

Mino Zerk 750 xp -> 225xp

Fire Warrior 200 xp -> 450 xp

Ogre Warrior 250 xp -> 675 xp

Ogre Ranger 450 xp -> 750 xp

Slith Thief 500 xp -> 225 xp

Avian Ninja 650 xp -> 400 xp

Dwarf Blade 675 xp -> 675 xp

Elven Paladin 850 xp -> 550 xp

Avian DK 650xp -> 450 xp

Dwarf Cleric 500 xp -> 625 xp

Elven Cleric 325 xp -> 525 xp

Faerie Voker 500 xp -> 675 xp

Drow Voker 500 xp -> 750 xp

Illitid Necro 500 xp -> 625 xp

Drow Shaman 500 xp -> 775 xp

Human Bmg 0 xp -> 425 xp

[f0xx]

Well, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

[mya]

Of course, you are biased towards Meeles.

Go PK at 30 with a Drow Shaman (775xp) against a Mino Zerk (225 xp).

Or a Storm Zerk (50 xp) vs a Human Cleric (350 xp).

Storms and Stones with a inferior Xp penalty to a Human... this makes no sense.

Slith Thieves at 225 xp, this is any Syndicate Dream.

O

[Ghrundor]

There was a lvl 32 illithid necro in the pk of my lvl 40 human paladin. Which is a big advantage in my corner.

[f0xx]

Mya, the way I see it those XP penalties are to limit how far a pinnacle can reach bellow level 50. Using level 30 to illustrate a weakness in the system is not a good standpoint.

@Ghrundor: I believe you are mistaken. Human paladins' XP penalty is not small. There is no way there can be such a huge gap pre 40.

[jibber]

I'm not bias toward melees or casters. This is a change for the better, IMHO. And since f0xx is apparently bias toward melees, and you're bias towards casters, I obviously have the best opinion according to your selective reasoning.

I'm positive the exp changes weren't done 'overnight'. The imms talked about it, they voted I'm sure, and decided on what class/race got what penalty due to the playability, survivability, and pk-ability of each combination.

It works. Stop complaining.

[The-Nameless]

Mya. The game is not designed to be balanced ranking. It is balanced at pinn. A human cleric has a much easier time in pk and gearing than a stormy zerk. It should be easier to get a stormy to pinn than a human cleric.

This rebalancing takes power combos, and makes them harder to rank. No more mino zerks getting multi raped at level 42. No more Drow Shamans who can pinn in a day.

The game does not favor melee more now, it just doesn't favor casters anymore.

[mya]

A shaman is probably the hardest race to Rank alone. If it can even be done. Let alone get Equipment from mobs. Yet, even a Human Shaman has 475 xp points.

[f0xx]

And since f0xx is apparently bias toward melees...

I am not biased...

Just because I argue every time with Mya and her biased mage suggestions doesn't mean I am biased towards melees.

I am all for balance and just like me, you and nameless said the new system is a good change, does this make you bias towards melees? I don't think so.

Basicly, this is just another "mages need more" thread from Mya

[edit] Mya, what does the fact that it's hard for a shaman to rank solo mean at pinn? NOTHING. Shamans are still one of the easiest, least EQ dependant classes. It's a good trade.

[The-Nameless]

I really want mya to roll a 100% pure melee evil char. I want her to show all these blatant imbalances.

[Ghrundor]

A shaman is probably the hardest race to Rank alone. If it can even be done. Let alone get Equipment from mobs. Yet' date=' even a Human Shaman has 475 xp points.[/quote']

How to begin this:

First off shamans are a class, not a race.

Secondly, shamans have the ability to solo any mob in the game. It may take them much longer than anyone else, but due to the immense amount of maledictions they can get the job done.

Lastly, you can rank just as easily from training spells and doing quests. Shamans do not just have kill mobs to level.

[f0xx]

Pfft, I didn't call for backup boys, I can handle her myself

[The-Nameless]

A shaman is probably the hardest race to Rank alone. If it can even be done. Let alone get Equipment from mobs. Yet' date=' even a Human Shaman has 475 xp points.[/quote']

Shaman is also the easiest thing at pinn to pk with. See a common trend? The stuff that has a higher exp pen is stronger than something with a lower exp pen? Man thats a hilarious accident. Glad you brought that to everyones attention. The imms should have caught that before implementing (obligatory smiley face)

Also factor in a shaman has more spells to train than most. You can easily rank a human shaman through 1 practice spell spamming while drunk. And you get awesome exp too? Schweeeeeeeeet.

[f0xx]

Oh and btw, I can easily PK a mino zerker at level 30 with a drow shaman.

Go PK at 30 with a Drow Shaman (775xp) against a Mino Zerk (225 xp).

[mya]

If the mino is clueless.

You can prevent most the Shaman arsenal at that level.

Plague and poison can be cured if you are prepared.

Gyvels cure Blind 100%

Weaken can be combated with Giant Strenght.

The Minotaur only has to charge spam a Low HP Drow to have a easy win.

Although I agree that Shamans are powerful, I have yet to die to one in 2 years. Sure I died a lot in inexperienced days, but now...

[Imoutgoodbye]

I love the new experience tables. They're perfect.

[The-Nameless]

See. I agree. But I am Valek biased.

[Imoutgoodbye]

See. I agree. But I am Valek biased.

I'd rather think that people would point out that

A) No one was really playing h-elves because they were pretty balanced with humans minus the human bonus.

Casters have always had an advantage over melees in that they aren't truly equipment based.

C) Powerful melees, especially combined with certain races, should have large experience penalties and they do now!

D) The races/classes you rarely see played have had their xp penalties reduced to encourage people to think twice about using the so called "power combo".

E) In relations to stone/storm/fire, you'll always see fire giants. Storm less so and stone even less than that. This stems from storms as being seen as inferior to fires and stones even less so due to the neutral RP restriction despite neutral protections. No one was using human melees to start with.

F) In relations to say a slith thief in syndicate, well, thieves now have xp penalties and it's just that a new class/race has risen to take the place of another to reach down the PK ladder. But I believe it's going to be a little more balanced. I'm not afraid of thieves the same way Mya is not afraid of shamans apparently. Shamans scare the piss out of me.

[samag08]

From where I see things it is simply a measure of balance. The same old worn out argument about goodie eq vs evil eq brings up the ability to request every time. The new argument about exp penalties brings up the fact that a naked c/c can do the exact same amount of damage per cast/prayer as a fully dressed c/c. Try that with a melee carrying 50/50 hit/dam compared to 25/25 hitdam. It should be quite clear why melees have less of a burden ranking.

[Pali]

If the mino is clueless.

You can prevent most the Shaman arsenal at that level.

Plague and poison can be cured if you are prepared.

Gyvels cure Blind 100%

Weaken can be combated with Giant Strenght.

The Minotaur only has to charge spam a Low HP Drow to have a easy win.

Although I agree that Shamans are powerful, I have yet to die to one in 2 years. Sure I died a lot in inexperienced days, but now...

I have to disagree with this assessment, Mya. I found a shaman to be one of the easiest things in the game to pk at 30 with. Any caster/communer combo can easily have 500hp at 30 through easily and safely attainable +hp gear and a few trains... hell, I've had faeries at 30 with more than that though a lucky brooch of life or whatever find. You also completely ignored what I consider to be a low-level shaman's most powerful spell - enfeeble. It is so, SO painfully easy to be chasing someone and forget to pay attention to your moves, and enfeeble combined with plague and the lack of saves rips moves to shreds. Add in that most haven't done much in the way of consumable farming yet, most aren't going to risk teleporting yet, and curse + enfeeble + plague means your enemy is not getting away from you. If your shaman has the enemy stuck fighting it you have won, whether they happen to be dead yet or not.

The only thing that my last level 30 shaman had any trouble with was a monk going undead - a fight that I still won. I think that you're discounting the urge to fight that a lot of people have - yes, a shaman is no threat at all if you're willing to just avoid them, but most of us want the kill.

[Mmm Coffee]

The whole point of this thread is moot to me since you can literally pinn any race/class now in under 20 hours assuming you can hunt semi-efficiently (fast healing,etc). Some combos can probably do under 15. The PK range is...well, just makes the game more interesting.

Point to my rant: If your PK range is too intense, log off or find something else to do in some remote area. It's not your right to be able to play any char any time you want with absolutely no risk.