killalou Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 European Government > American Government. Why? America's wealth sits with just 3% of the population and after careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that today's system is designed to keep a large gap between the social classes. Money talks after all. EDIT: What Pali said about capitalism in the next post. We're a diluted form of a socialist system to keep rioting from happening. Valek you state this but you will not know until you live (not visit!) in another country. As for the 3% wealth comment....this is really every nations problem. There has always a caste system in this world. The difference between U.S. and most places is that here you can have the chance to say fu to your caste and move up or down as your determination allows. Other places, you stay and die your caste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Valek you state this but you will not know until you live (not visit!) in another country. As for the 3% wealth comment....this is really every nations problem. There has always a caste system in this world. The difference between U.S. and most places is that here you can have the chance to say fu to your caste and move up or down as your determination allows. Other places' date=' you stay and die your caste.[/quote'] Unless you cheat the US system or figure out how to work your way past all the red tape, no, you can't leave your "caste". And castes in the US are poorly taken care of. They are given hand outs, not hand ups. I should know. I was born into a very poor, uneducated family. France, as an example, takes great care of its citizens. You'll see a huge difference as U.S. gas prices continue to rise. I've finally figured out how to manipulate the system to get to where I can break my caste. I won't go into any details because that could cause me great grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killalou Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Just as much as accepting the theory of gravity or atomic theory or the theory of a heliocentric solar system does - having an accurate understanding of the natural world and how it functions. The general lack of understanding of science in the American public is indicative of a general lack of proper education in the American public. You fail to diffrentiate theories and laws. Theories are ever changing and havent been fully proven (or accepted!). Regardless, your comment above doesnt point out why think the theory of evolution has to do with anything (or what evolution theory you mean). Also what exactly are you implying when you say: "The general lack of understanding of science in the American public is indicative of a general lack of proper education in the American public." Do you mean to say if that if the American public had a better understanding of science they would be better off? How so if this is the case? Any other countries you think model what you mean? If so, examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 The difference between U.S. and most places is that here you can have the chance to say fu to your caste and move up or down as your determination allows. Other places' date=' you stay and die your caste.[/quote'] A pleasant concept, isn't it? Unfortunately, I can't agree that it really reflects reality all that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killalou Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Huh? Why can't I compare government social structures? :confused: :confused: You are correct perhaps....I worded this incorrectly. You can't easilycompare goverment social structures that are based on different principles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killalou Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Unless you cheat the US system or figure out how to work your way past all the red tape, no, you can't leave your "caste". And castes in the US are poorly taken care of. They are given hand outs, not hand ups. I should know. I was born into a very poor, uneducated family. France, as an example, takes great care of its citizens. You'll see a huge difference as U.S. gas prices continue to rise. I've finally figured out how to manipulate the system to get to where I can break my caste. I won't go into any details because that could cause me great grief. Uh....Valek are you sure France is a good example (I'll let you do your own research) And yes you have the chance to leave your caste. No one said it would be easy. But the chance is there. Thats why so many immigrants risk their lives comming here for that opportunity. As for being poor that is the story of most people in America. Remember that there is a HUUUUUGE disparity in being poor in AMERICA vs. being poor ELSEWHERE. Lastly, remember this Valek...you have to opportunity and chance to manipulate the system and get a slap (I hope!) on the wrist in America where in other places you could be executed or serve life in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killalou Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 A pleasant concept' date=' isn't it? Unfortunately, I can't agree that it really reflects reality all that well.[/quote'] Then I would advise you leave the U.S. for a time and explore the world. It may reveal somethings to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 You fail to diffrentiate theories and laws. Theories are ever changing and havent been fully proven (or accepted!). Regardless' date=' your comment above doesnt point out why think the theory of evolution has to do with anything (or what evolution theory you mean).[/quote'] Scientific theories are models that both explain phenomena and predict future observations (heliocentric theory is the model of the solar system with the Sun at the relative center, general relativity models gravity as the warping of space-time by masses, atomic theory is the model of the atom with the proton/neutron nucleus and electrons orbiting it, etc.). Scientific theories by their very nature CANNOT be proven, only disproven, but this is also true of scientific laws - science does not deal in absolute statements of truth, but in provisionally accepted models that are revised as we learn new things. All higher-order understandings in science are theories, whether we're talking relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang, natural selection, atomic theory, the germ theory of disease, etc., and all of these are based on incredible amounts of information and testing. There are theories that haven't been thoroughly tested yet as well, such as multiverse theories, string theory, etc. This is one reason why having a good understanding of science matters... so one knows the level of confidence one should have in any particular theory. Scientific laws are statements that reflect thus-far universally observed relationships (force equaling mass multiplied by acceleration has always been observed to be the case, energy equaling mass multiplied by the square of the speed of light has always been observed to be the case, etc.). They are no more incapable of being revised than theories are, and they are a lesser level of understanding than theories are. Newton's law of gravitation is simply an equation that describes the force applied by gravity to all objects - it gives no understanding of what gravity actually is, only how it always acts. Relativity, however, is the theory that explains what gravity actually is, and why it acts as it does. Also what exactly are you implying when you say: "The general lack of understanding of science in the American public is indicative of a general lack of proper education in the American public." Do you mean to say if that if the American public had a better understanding of science they would be better off? How so if this is the case? Any other countries you think model what you mean? If so, examples? Do I think that if the average American had a better understanding of science they would be better off? Yes, absolutely, if only because I can't imagine a way in which people having more basic knowledge of how reality functions is a bad thing. I also think that having a good understanding of science helps foster critical thinking in individuals, which is an extremely useful life skill regardless of vocation. I think that far too many people are easily swayed by talking heads and sound-bytes, and that having good critical thinking skills helps one filter out the good information from all the bad that surrounds it. I think that far too many people filter reality into black and white categories to ease their comprehension of it, and I think that having a better understanding of science and how the world functions, how human beings function, makes it harder for someone to do that. And don't get me started on religion. Also... Then I would advise you leave the U.S. for a time and explore the world. It may reveal somethings to you. Why would I leave the U.S. to figure out if a statement regarding the internal conditions of the U.S. is accurate? That makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 France's Social Security System Here, a little bit of the picture. As I said, France takes care of its citizens. EDIT: And "bending" the system is not a slap on the wrist. It's a HUGE fine (talking tens of thousands of dollars) and at least 5 years of prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 "standard cost for a doctor is 22 Euros" France. Dam, that is expensive. I payed 2.3€ last time I went to the doctor. It's almost free, but you still have problems with waiting lists. But still it's good to have the two options. Free/Waiting list and the option to pay from your pocket and not have a waiting list. Also V, Nepotism is rampant in Europe. Specially in southern Europe . It's a tradition to put family and friends above strangers . You may get a less skilled worker, but you know they are there for you, and that always have your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag08 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 All the arguing over these topics drives me nuts anymore. I think rather than try to turn America into other countries, the folks that want these things should simply move to other countries. Personally , I have never had a hard time swallowing the pill that I will work 60+ hour work weeks(missing my family during that time), but providing them with a lifestyle that I can be proud to have earned. All the debate anymore is over one topic "How much of someone else's earned money are you entitled to". I wish that the government would simply do it's job of keeping our borders and people safe and providing the basic essentials(sewage and roads, etc.) Instead we have them ingrained into our daily lives mostly due to, in my opinion, the laziness of people to get their own acts together. If taxation was not nearly where it is today and many of these progams did not exist, guess what, you'd keep most of your money and would be just fine without looking to tap into someone else's pockets. ~End rant~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 That's definitely a rant. Unfortunately, these social systems were put into place long before any of us were born. They serve a light purpose on the surface, but a darker side underneath. Samag, it sounds like you've had a belief ingrained into you that if you don't sacrifice and sacrifice and sacrifice then you're lazy. I work full-time and go to school full time, so I easily put in the amount of time you do. When I open the door to my apartment, my 2 year old son comes running to see Daddy and that breaks my heart that he can't see me more often. I would like a better quality of life for everyone. All you have to do is look on Capitol Hill and you'll see the corruption up there. Lobbying and Big Money are buying what they want up there. Meanwhile you and I, we bust our asses and sacrifice. I'll get to where I need to some day. But there are too many people that don't know how to get up that deserve a true chance to get up. I'm not only going to get to where I need to be, but I'm going to give back by being a teacher and trying to change our education system. Kids don't need a crap ton of information crammed down their throats. They need to be guided on how they can use the information. They need to discover some things amongst themselves. Find out what they know and find out they could know and find out what others know. As Pali points out, there is no true black and white. It would be nice, but it's not there. We can't have certain truths named in the Constitution without a little help. This country has changed. The world has changed. To continue with static beliefs makes us nothing but objects in the world and that's how "they" want us to be treated: As objects. You can apply "they" in many ways based on perspective. But it's going to take many ideas and much collaboration to get us where we need to be. For we are many. EDIT: And I know what true lazy looks like. My father didn't want to work a day of his life and always found ways to never have to work. He was always around and by example from him I learned everything I shouldn't do or be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 But it's going to take many ideas and much collaboration to get us where we need to be. For we are many. We are too many... population growth is a serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag08 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 According to the Bernie Madoff Fan Club(founders and administrators of Social Insecurity) population growth has not been great enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killalou Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Why would I leave the U.S. to figure out if a statement regarding the internal conditions of the U.S. is accurate? That makes no sense at all. Sure it does. Originally Posted by Pali A pleasant concept, isn't it? Unfortunately, I can't agree that it really reflects reality all that well. If you dont think so conduct an experiment. See how things are internally and then externally to come up with your own conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erana Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Why would I leave the U.S. to figure out if a statement regarding the internal conditions of the U.S. is accurate? That makes no sense at all. A good evaluation of something requires an external point of reference. It is hard to observe an ant farm when you are in the middle of it, much less try to compare it to other ant farms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killalou Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 France's Social Security System Here, a little bit of the picture. As I said, France takes care of its citizens. EDIT: And "bending" the system is not a slap on the wrist. It's a HUGE fine (talking tens of thousands of dollars) and at least 5 years of prison. Depends how good your lawyer is As for France's health benefits you have to figure in the higher taxes, the riots, extreme poverty, increased retirement age, ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 A good evaluation of something requires an external point of reference. It is hard to observe an ant farm when you are in the middle of it' date=' much less try to compare it to other ant farms.[/quote'] Should've been a lot more clear... I wasn't thinking of comparisons between the US and other countries when I made that comment. If you ask me, the best way to learn about social/economic mobility within a country is to research the topic, not to just spend a few years living in it... takes a lot less time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Not necessarily BEING the external point of reference, but using someone else's frame of reference. Gives a great boost to critical and autonomous thought. Makes for some nice self-reflection also. Another nice point about collaboration. I like what I hear from some of our Western brothers and sisters. Population growth is a terrible problem. Part of the reason the wife and I are only having one kid. I'm not some Catholic running around having ninety five kids because "god so blessed me" with little mouths I can't afford to feed. As for France, well, they used to be a decent example. I'm just saying we can make something work. If Republicans peel back that Health Care Plan that's in place, the national debt will skyrocket. Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security are going to have to be things of the past in there current forms. I know people who are 70 years old that heard when they were kids Social Security wasn't going to be there for them. Now with Baby Boomers reaching retirement age, I'm not so certain it will be there when I get there. This could be the breaking point of this particular system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Population growth is a terrible problem. Part of the reason the wife and I are only having one kid. I'm not some Catholic running around having ninety five kids because "god so blessed me" with little mouths I can't afford to feed. While I don't disagree with the sentiment, you're better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Social Security has ALWAYS made me wonder why... You'd think we could spend essentially the same amount and just send everyone to a secondary school, thereby increasing our basic skill levels as a country. Beyond that... that is a crappy situation Rev... I personally would look into other employment (I'm doing the job application dance myself right now, so I know how crappy it can be). Beyond that...feel better hombre, hopefully the anniversary of your unholy birth will bring with it a whole variety of necromantic powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 While I don't disagree with the sentiment' date=' you're better than this.[/quote'] I've got a friend who has three kids because of Catholic "Natural Family Planning". Failed him all three times. He now lives in poverty. I could also talk about Detroit. I could go on about any number of cultures/beliefs/social statuses that are in danger because of so much assimilation of what's the "norm" and what's "okay". I just tossed it out as an example. Population growth is an issue and Catholicism was the major religion. Where's the Compassion for these kids and their parents? Okay, I'm going too in depth with it now, but, it's just one example. And it's a truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I've got a friend who has three kids because of Catholic "Natural Family Planning". Failed him all three times. He now lives in poverty. I didn't know there was a correlation between having three children and being impoverished. Both my uncles have 4 children each, and are not impoverished. I don't know your friend, but I'm sure there are plenty of things he could do to provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I don't know your friend Precisely. Let me tell you a little: He had a nice cushy government job working for the USDA. Downsizing happened. He got the job because his dad got him in. His wife has a Bachelors Degree in Theology. Know what a woman can do with that in the Catholic faith here in Michigan? Nothing. So, he ended up working a slightly better than minimum wage job. He already had one kid by this point. Then along came a second. And then a third. More people, money stayed the same. Now, why does the wife have this degree? Because her parents had wanted her to originally be a NUN. Instead, God told her to get married. The Pope said birth control is bad. Where you are on the economic ladder can change quickly. I'm just pointing out he wouldn't have to be providing more if the method the church told him he had to use was the only method he could use. He wasn't Catholic before he met this girl. As a matter of fact, back in the day, I used to break people of their Faith. Took great pleasure in it as a matter of fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 State? You serious? Its on the company. Most jobs in the US are low pay' date=' mediocre hours, and 0 benefits.[/quote'] Now, most jobs here are like that too, but don't you think that when you give 25% of your total salary to the government for different taxes (10% of goes to, I don't know the exact terminology, but it's called something like health insurance), when you get sick for a week, the government is supposed to compensate you in some way, financially? I mean, why should I pay EVERY month for a health insurance kinda thing if they are not going to take care of me? This is no bonus we get from our companies, it is something you with YOUR OWN MONEY pay for. That is how it is on my country - you pay small amounts EACH MONTH for health care (even though you are not sick), so when you get sick the government will take care for you with your own money. That is like the basic function of the health care system, if you don't have that, then what kind of a health care system do you have? Now if you are not paying health taxes it is up to you to save money for that time when you get sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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