Bounties

Okay I'm done with this thread.

55 minutes ago, Dale said:

Okay I'm done with this thread.

Another compelling argument. :umnik:

Every post in this thread sounds like you crying.  And by attacking me you're only making yourself look like an asshole.  

I'm sorry that your butt needs a band aid and you took what I said entirely too literal.  

Go find a girl friend.

Quote

"The way I see it, bounties should be roleplay driven, not equipment driven."

I don't understand this statement. Do you wear the equipment? Do you sell it on ebay?

How is equipment anything but IC / roleplay?

Careful, someone might tear apart your post and make you feel like an asshole.

I'm a nice guy, I would never say something like this!

4 minutes ago, myrek said:

"The way I see it, bounties should be roleplay driven, not equipment driven."

I don't understand this statement. Do you wear the equipment? Do you sell it on ebay?

How is equipment anything but IC / roleplay?

In case I was not clear enough: people should place bounties because their character's roleplay calls for it, not because they want to obtain a few pieces of equipment for their character.

5 minutes ago, Dale said:

Every post in this thread sounds like you crying.  And by attacking me you're only making yourself look like an asshole.

Except I never attacked you, again I was debating a statement you made and since then you have been incredibly defensive while refusing to acknowledge what I actually said.

6 minutes ago, Dale said:

I'm sorry that your butt needs a band aid and you took what I said entirely too literal.

What did you say that was not meant literally? If it was the part about why you place bounties that you did not mean then why not just concede the point and not try to make it personal for no reason?

6 minutes ago, Dale said:

Go find a girl friend.

Not a bad idea, but my wife might not like it.

Just stop the both of you.

1 minute ago, Lexi said:

In case I was not clear enough: people should place bounties because their character's roleplay calls for it, not because they want to obtain a few pieces of equipment for their character.

I still don't understand. What character doesn't want better equipment?

As for the RP part, either it is within a character's RP or it isn't and that is already addressed, right? What new rule needs added?

5 minutes ago, Lexi said:

 

In case I was not clear enough: people should place bounties because their character's roleplay calls for it, not because they want to obtain a few pieces of equipment for their character.

Myrek has a point though. EQ is not inherently OOC. If someone has an item my character covets and I bounty them that is not necessarily bad RP.

It would be bad RP if a good aligned character bountied another goodie for EQ though as an example, there are plenty more.

4 minutes ago, Rygothran said:

Just stop the both of you.

What should I stop? I have not broken any forum rules in this thread. I have been trying to discuss what is and isn't OOC.

I am not the one who is name calling, flame baiting, and needing my posts moderated.

With all due respect I think a good question was raised and maybe I am wrong, I would love to hear someone from the staff weigh in on the question.

Is it OOC to place bounties because you have played many syndicates in the past and know what it feels like not to have anyone to try and collect?

22 minutes ago, Manual Labour said:

Another compelling argument. :umnik:

Your sarcasm is firing Dale up. It's called flame bating. It's perfectly fine if you want to hold a discussion but stop trying to rile him up.

2 minutes ago, Rygothran said:

Your sarcasm is firing Dale up. It's called flame bating. It's perfectly fine if you want to hold a discussion but stop trying to rile him up.

Fine, that was uncalled for, it was my own frustration coming out that he would not argue the actual point with me and would rather leave the conversation than debate it further.

Sorry I riled you up Dale.

11 minutes ago, Manual Labour said:

 

Is it OOC to place bounties because you have played many syndicates in the past and know what it feels like not to have anyone to try and collect?

That's not the reason I place the bounties.  I read my post, it makes it clear that's not the only reason I place it.  But that is the reason I check the bounty board when I am bored and thinking of things to do.  I an constantly trying to rp with other characters and I use IG situations to do so.   I wasn't making a specific reason, I was making a general example.  It's an accumulation of things and I was trying to maybe help someone wrap their head around an idea that may be unorthodox.  A lot of what I do for instance is unorthodox to some, I'm a weird guy.  I made a random contribution on a thread that I really wasn't all that interested in and what pissed me off is you didn't, you just choose to argue my post.  

/end rant

I've played a few Syndicate in my time and believe it or not, I have an opinion on this topic!

The issues with bounties come from two main sources:

1. Incentive (easy to place, no downside, has multiple uses (killing someone, befriending Syndicate, etc.))

2. Bounties disproportionately hurt weak players.

The reasons for number one have been well discussed in this thread. Number two exists because a Syndicate naturally wants more heads, more benefit for easier work, and frankly, it is a lot safer. This isn't a problem with any particular Syndicate...just a consequence of how the system is set up.

I think you could nicely solve the bounty issues by:

1. Disallowing players to place bounties.

2. Bounties automatically accrue over time as certain criteria are met (kill someone, break a law, or whatever you want it to be). This can be scaled by align, cabal rank, rank, total pks, number of deaths, whatever.

3. Bounties are set to zero on collection (not all deaths).

4. Syndicate collects bounties on thresholds determined by the Syndicate's cabal rank.

In such a system, nearly every character would have a bounty of some sort. As you play and do certain things your bounty would grow (much faster for active, powerful characters).

Those characters who are never collected, but have lots of pks, high cabal rank, etc., would have immense bounties.  People who have bad PK records or have been collected recently would have trivial bounties.

Syndicate ranks have thresholds (high ranks only get collection credit for high bounties and/or are allowed to freely ignore small fish).

What does this mean?

1. Proportionate bounty value to the target. (strong players are worth more, top 10 reflects the most dangerous or difficult targets accurately)

2. Proportionate Syndicate value to bounty (can't divert a Syndicate leader with a 50k bounty, higher ranked Syndicates can do things except collect measly bounties)

3. Can't get out of collections through payoffs, deaths, spamming bounties, etc.

4. Solves OOC, odd RP, equipment issues, trash bounties, etc.

5. Syndicate member value tied to value, not just a simple number of heads (which vary widely in real value)

6. Self-maintaining, objective system

7. Value can be anything (cps probably) and paid in any way (global boost to gain, lump sum, to cabal,  to collector, anything)

Could easily tie this to the malform system too. High accrual rate = more worthy kill = more soul credit.

Could also scale Syndicate cabal powers to target value: Syndicate gets more powerful based on the difficulty of the target. Applicable to Tribunal potentially as well.

Okay. I guess my point did not come across properly:

In the current system, you are effectively killed by an unknown assailant, using the Syndicate as a proxy to kill you. This is not conductive to roleplay, because you do not know why you were bountied, you do not know who bountied you, and you do not know what you did to cause them to bounty you. If a reason had to be provided with each bounty - a reason that would be visible to the person whose head was collected - then all of a sudden you would be able to react and respond to the conflict wrought on you. I've had numerous PK engagements with people and there was always an underlying reason, even when fighting opposing alignments. After I am killed, I can talk to my assailant, figure out what drove them to kill me. Conflict is great for generating potential roleplay angles, whereas bounties are not. That is my issue with the system.

Technically, people could kill me because they wanted my Blackwatch sword, but they don't. I hate dying to Syndicates because I -always- have that feeling that someone bountied me just because they could. It might not even be the case, there might be good, valid roleplay behind the bounties, but that's not the feeling you get when a bounty hunter kills you. This is why I genuinely think that disclosing the name of the person who hired the Syndicate and the reason for hiring them would be an improvement.

Re: Celerity

I do not like that idea particularly much, because it takes away player agency. We don't need to give Syndicates reasons to kill *everyone *just because you happen to log in and play the game. Someone who spends 50 hours playing the game per week would accrue a higher bounty without necessarily being as involved in politics/cabal warfare/playerkilling as the person that spends 10 hours playing the game a week. Maybe you could figure out the right checks and balances to make it work. I don't know.

Also, the idea of making powers more potent against skilled opponents also strike me as a poor design choice, because all of a sudden, you would be at a disadvantage solely for being good at the game. Game balance should be upheld by different methods in my opinion (equipment balancing, race/class balancing, rp point perks balancing).

Back in the day Syndicate was Conclave and bounty hunters were more like stalkers. 

I did and do think that mixing up Syndi and Conclave abilities was a bad idea.

I say shut it down. Otherwise, I support Celerity's idea.

I actually like that idea too, sometimes it sucks when you can't interact with a player because they have a bounty.  IG alliances and friendships are broken, but such is the way of a head hunter.  Self maintaining objective is where you got me.

Let me just start by, I didn't read anyone's posts here.

The bounty system as it currently stands, sucks. Syndicate has been nearly permanently allied with Nexus since..... well.... forever. This alliance ensures that people will be bountied, leading to bounties for no good reason. Bounties should be placed for things such as: someone did you wrong, you can't kill someone, they are an enemy that just gives you trouble.

The minimum bounty placements are way too low, and people actually still headhunt for them, rather than them being denied. Increase the bounty prices.

Remove the items in the bags, instead, REQUIRE characters to post notes with their bounties to Syndicate (also tagging immortal) stating the reason for the bounty and REQUIRING a price that makes the hunt actually WORTH IT.

IF characters want to bounty for equipment, the initial price should still be over 50k, say maybe 150-200k minimum and rares attained from the bounty are then given to a Merchant to sell. This would enable/force more interaction through characters. I.e. Character A wants helm of spell turning and therefore places a 200k bounty on Character B. Character C (Syndicate) is getting paid to do the deed of murdering such opponent or obtaining through other means (bounty complete). Item is then transferred to Merchant.

And as far as Merchants go. Prices are RIDICULOUSLY OUTRAGEOUS for most items. There are TONS of rares out there still that are high-end quality rares and NO ONE gets them. I bet they would sell off your list quickly. Giving options for more bounties, more work and more sales (also more game interaction).

Syndicate as a BUSINESS should have the right and option to deny ANY bounty/note for ANY reason they see fit. It is a business. It isn't just a business of murder. Treat it as a business that is in business to gain riches, HOWEVER they may come.