Pali Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 For those who pay no attention to the news, the new Republican governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker, is attempting to get a budget bill passed that will, among other things, remove nearly all collective bargaining rights from state workers - in effect destroying state employee unions (it also includes other anti-union provisions such as requiring these unions to hold annual votes to remain organized). The Wisconsin state legislature is also Republican controlled due to the landslide they won nationwide in November, and so this bill is almost certain to pass. This bill was presented Friday the 11th, and it was scheduled to go to vote on Thursday the 17th. In response, starting Monday and without pause since, there has been a massive protest happening at the State Capitol. Crowd size has continually increased from a few thousand to, if I recall the estimates correctly, fifty thousand today - and thus far, four days in, entirely nonviolent (9 arrests total for unspecified minor misdemeanors). At the moment it is 1:15 AM here and 27 degrees Fahrenheit - and there are hundreds of people camping within the capitol building overnight. A number of school districts around the state have been closed for days because of so many teachers taking unpaid sick leave to join the protests - Madison has not had school for the last three days, and the largest, Milwaukee, canceled Friday classes. The State Senate, which consists of 19 Republicans and 14 Democrats, was not able to vote on the bill Thursday because all 14 Democratic senators left the state for Illinois Thursday morning - and 20 senators must be present for a quorum. All remain out of state currently. The Madison City Council and mayor unanimously approved all city union contracts through 2012 to prevent them from being at risk if the bill passes (which, if it goes to a vote, it will). I work and live two blocks away from the Capitol building. It's been one hell of a show, and its only getting started. This is civil disobedience at its very best. EDIT: Retracted after further consideration of the subject. EDIT 2: Also, it is worth pointing out - Wisconsin's budget had a $121 million surplus when Walker took office (later edit: this is incorrect - see my first post on page 2). That changed after he handed out hundreds of millions in corporate tax breaks. Rachel Maddow has a fantastic piece on what is going on here - seriously worth watching in its entirety (14ish minutes). This is not about the budget - this is an attempt to destroy unions, because they usually support Democrats and are the big money on the Democratic side, and big money is needed to win elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hell yeah. I've been watching and reading up. If your states unions fall under this, Michigan could very well be next to topple and become a right to work state. 100% behind all the teachers calling in sick and the democrats on the run from state police and staying out of the state. Bad lesson to teach kids, though. Apparently running CAN help you solve your problems. But seriously, **** this ****. I'm sick and tired of tax cuts being given to corporations. Rick Snyder is trying to pass a budget here in Michigan that does a lot of cutting, including state aid to the thirteen state universities and repealing the Michigan Earned Income Credit which is only available to lower income families. After making a ton of cuts, he gives corporations a 1.2 billion dollar tax cut and says it'll help them create jobs. Bull****. If there's anything I've noticed about corporate types it's that it's in their natures to be greedy. They might hire some more workers, but they'll spend FAR more on R&D and lining their own pockets. Well, I'm done venting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Bad lesson to teach kids' date=' though.[/quote'] The proper way to perform civil disobedience? I think that's a great lesson to teach kids - and most seem to get it. Students make up a lot of the protesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmm Coffee Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 It has to start somewhere in America. Keep us posted, Pali - since you're right there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Protesters hit 70,000 today. I'd be going to join a few of my friends in spending the night in the Capitol building, except that they apparently locked the doors at midnight. Republicans continue to pretend that the union members are just being greedy and don't want to take any pay cuts (the unions have already said they'd take Walker's proposed cuts), while trying to keep quiet what they are trying to do - gut the power of unions, and through doing so, gut the primary source of money for Democratic campaigns. Our Democratic state senators remain out of state last I heard to prevent the bill from being voted on, and there are similar protests against similar legislation beginning in Ohio. Workers around the country have been giving signs of support and solidarity... I read in the paper today that thousands of union members in Pennsylvania (I'm pretty sure I'm remembering right) wore red, Wisconsin's color, in a show of support. This is big, hugely important stuff. I'm glad I'm here for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiterracotta Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Viva la Revolucion!!!!! Thanks for keeping us posted Pali. You're like Dan Rather, but better. Maybe the politicians will turn out to be zombies, that would make my dreams come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Heh... to be perfectly honest, I'm expecting these protests to change little, and I'm expecting the bill to eventually pass... and I'm expecting serious work disruptions and potentially riots after that. This is only getting started. EDIT: Hah! It seems the Ian's Pizza on State Street, the main pedestrian street in downtown Madison off the capitol square, has received orders from 30 states and 5 countries (including Egypt, Korea and Canada) to be sent in support of the protesters. They've been getting so many such orders that they shut down all normal in-house and delivery operations and are only making pizzas ordered for the protesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atebos Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 It might be just me, but I find it disconcerting when other countries who refuse American help and spout vitriolic insults about America are happy to fund civil unrest in the country. Heh, shouldn't they worry about their own problems first? Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Another bullet for the gun that is the 2012 elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Ftw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Another bullet for the gun that is the 2012 elections. It's not 2012 yet, so, loading the gun can hurt either side. We are playing Russian Roulette you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiterracotta Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 It's not 2012 yet' date=' so, loading the gun can hurt either side. We are playing Russian Roulette you know. [/quote'] I think you can win Russian Roulette.... You can't win when your options on the ballot are "Evil" or "Hopefully Lesser Evil".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think you can win Russian Roulette.... You can't win when your options on the ballot are "Evil" or "Hopefully Lesser Evil".... That's part of the problem. Everyone wants to be in the party that has HUGE money backing it. The people have become brainwashed into believing that anyone outside of the two parties would only break the country. Truth is, people in other parties have great ideas and could be good. Like that one guy from Texas. Can't remember his party affiliation now, but he used to be a Republican. Truth is, only thing that would become broken would be the two-party exclusion system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 The people have become brainwashed into believing that anyone outside of the two parties would only break the country. Not so much break the country, as it'd simply often be a strategic mistake to vote for a member of a third party regardless of where you are on the political spectrum - because the members of third parties tend to take votes away from one of the two Democratic or Republican candidates, and the other tends to win the election then (you can see this in how several Tea Party candidates cost the Republicans seats last November - even though the Tea Partiers are pretty much Republicans, but either crazier or even more full of crap). The only way I can see to change this is to revamp our entire electoral system... but I rather doubt that this will happen without massive upheaval first. Protests continued today, albeit muted and in smaller numbers due to some nasty weather (snow and freezing rain all day). Also, fact-checking by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has found that my earlier statements that Wisconsin had a budget surplus when Walker took office that changed into a deficit after he gave out tax breaks to corporations was incorrect - WI had a deficit of about $140 million for the 2010-11 fiscal year, and a projected deficit of about $3.6 billion for the following two years (Walker did still give away hundreds of millions in tax breaks to corporations, however - for comparison, his own estimates for how much this anti-union measure would save are in the $300 million range). While this strengthens the Republican position requesting pay cuts and pension changes (which the unions have already agreed to and which I think entirely reasonable), I have yet to be convinced that this is the motivation for the attack on union rights. Walker's stated position here is that collective bargaining needs to be done away with so that state and local govts. will have greater flexibility in the future - while this line of reasoning may be true, I do not agree that it is sufficient justification for removing collective bargaining rights, and I don't think it comes anywhere close to justifying the other anti-union measures Walker is taking such as requiring unions to hold a vote every year to remain organized. Rachel Maddow may have been wrong about the specifics of the budget numbers, but I think her analysis of this bill as a politically-motivated attack on unions, and through them an attack on the ability of the Democratic Party to support candidates, remains entirely accurate (and the only way to make sense of everything included in this bill). Republicans refuse to yield an inch here - despite unions and Democrats saying that they will accept the proposed pay cuts and pension changes so long as collective bargaining and other union rights are maintained (and despite that this will still severely hurt a lot of people - losing a couple grand a year often isn't easy for the lower ends of the pay scales, like janitors that clean public buildings, or city clerks, newer teachers, street plowers, etc.). Democrats, luckily, also seem to be refusing to yield here - our 14 Democratic state senators thus far seem solidly united and remain out of state to prevent a quorum, and Democratic State Senator Jon Erpenbach has stated that they are willing to do so for weeks or longer if necessary. As I understand things, the next couple of days should have some interesting developments, so I'll keep you guys posted. I've got them off from work, so I intend to be spending a bit of time at the capitol protesting myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmm Coffee Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Here's a decent article summing up Walker's position on things...this guy sounds like a complete douche. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/what_gov_walker_wont_tell_you_20110220/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 He is...the unions have agreed to concede everything except collective bargaining rights and he won't cooperate. He wants it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/what_gov_walker_wont_tell_you_20110220/ As I stated in my last post, this article's claim that the state Legislative Fiscal Bureau predicted a surplus prior to Walker taking over is incorrect, because the memo that this claim is being based off of does not include $200 or so million in debts that the state also has. Walker's claiming that these changes are necessary for the 2011-13 budget (which has a projected $3.6 billion deficit), not the 2010-11 one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 You can change policy by voting for the opposition on election day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Or you can change policy through civil disobedience. Strikes far more violent and disruptive than these protests have been are responsible for a lot of the worker protections that we now have in place. Sometimes you need to make yourself heard outside the electoral system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Why don't they just make a law to strip a million or two away from each big name actor and athlete (particularly the ones who do things like organize dog fights and other dirty things) that makes many times more than that (and anyone else who is paid much more than they are worth in terms of survival and progress) and hand that money over to teachers, firefighters, and cops across the country. With said money they would then be expected to conduct their work to a much higher standard. Bing bang boom. Problems solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Why don't they just make a law to strip a million or two away from each big name actor and athlete (particularly the ones who do things like organize dog fights and other dirty things) that makes many times more than that (and anyone else who is paid much more than they are worth in terms of survival and progress) and hand that money over to teachers' date=' firefighters, and cops across the country. With said money they would then be expected to conduct their work to a much higher standard. Bing bang boom. Problems solved.[/quote'] nah how about just a 3% tax increase for those who make 200k + a year... wait a second...we tried this and rebublicans voted it down...since well...they all make 200k+ a year and unlike their left wing counterparts, they are to greedy to let go of 3%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekky Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Kang: Yes, we're aliens. But what are you going to do? It's a two party system, you have to vote for one of us! Man: Well, I believe I'll vote for a third party!. Kang: Go ahead! THROW YOUR VOTE AWAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Protests continue. The state Assembly and Senate reconvened today, although the Senate Democrats remain out of state to prevent it from having the quorum required to vote on a budget bill. Democrats in the Assembly seem to also be attempting to tie things up there, proposing a hundred or so amendments to the bill. Gov. Walker and most Republicans remain unwilling to budge at all, despite unions stating they will accept the proposed pay cuts so long as collective bargaining remains, and they also rejected a compromise proposed by a Republican state senator to immediately restore collective bargaining rights after the 2011-13 budget period ends... again providing further evidence that this has nothing to do with budget balancing and entirely to do with politics and destroying unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well, there is truth in that some of the people who are making that money are doing so because they are innovative, and ahead of the norm. Those people shouldn't be taxed as heavily because they are the ones that aid the economy the most. Who should be taxed are old money mofo's who's family is rich because of two hundred years ago. The ones who sit around and compliment themselves on how rich they are. Tax the hell out of them because their money is doing nothing but sitting. There should be a huge tax on inheriting more than like 5 million (cash in bank wise, not so much investments). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 If I recall correctly, there's a fair bit of research suggesting that greater cash rewards do not encourage innovation nearly as much as greater worker freedom and comfort do... there was a TED talk from a while back on the subject, though I'm having trouble finding it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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