Quality of Life

50 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

On 10/15/2017 at 7:19 PM, Unknown Criminal said:

1. Replay tells etc should list the opposite direction and show newest first, why must we scroll the entire list when we just wanna see the last tell sent that was missed.

3.  Original replay intentions and current use of replay for RP purposes could use separate commands. So I agree here too.

I don't, if simply from a logging standpoint.

Replay tells:

You tell Character: The itsy bitsy spider.

Character tells you: Went up the water spout.

You tell Character: Down came the rain.

Character tells you: And washed the spider out.

Copy.  Paste.

The proposed would make that a nightmare:

Character tells you: And washed the spider out.

You tell Character: Down came the rain.

Character tells you: Went up the water spout.

You tell Character: The itsy bitsy spider.

Now take that across 2 hours of logs and re-order it.  Pass.

Sometimes I get booted.

I just want to see the line or two missed. Aka replay original.

Sometimes I want to use all the replays emotes ect for logging purposes. Could be replayall.

Not really taking away from your abilities, just improving the lives of those not seeking to log.

40 minutes ago, Celerity said:

Reworks of all types should be completed before any new areas are added.

Many stock areas can be simply removed because our world room count is much too large for our playersize.

At this point, we need to emphasize quality over quantity.

We have differing approaches. I don't think we should stifle the creativity of players that wish to contribute an area, and put the RP into doing so, simply to revamp areas that already exist to cut off old references.

You have to balance the nostalgia with the new stuff. Tip that scale too far in either direction and it gets ugly.

1 hour ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Did not mean to derail.

1. Very Good Suggestion.

2. Maybe its the example, but I am not sure I am on board here. The blackwatch sword will never be on the ground, and you will always be picking up garbage. It is nodrop.

3.  Original replay intentions and current use of replay for RP purposes could use separate commands. So I agree here too.

1. Replay Clear as @Kyzarius said. If you play for extended periods, try replay, cut/paste, replay clear, periodically.

2. Just let me buy the approval with my RP. That is the purpose of the wait anyway is it not?

Overall, nice suggestions @Unknown Criminal

Re:2. Sure it lands in your inventory which is why when someone sends your blackwatch sword flying your trigger is just to wield sword.

re:4. So after a long hunt and exploration something cool starts happening and you would expect people to remember to clear their history? Even if they do remember they will be missing the opener to how everything started. 

Re:5. I supposed RP points could be used here too, it would promote log submission that's for sure :)

13 minutes ago, Lloth said:

We have differing approaches. I don't think we should stifle the creativity of players that wish to contribute an area, and put the RP into doing so, simply to revamp areas that already exist to cut off old references.

You have to balance the nostalgia with the new stuff. Tip that scale too far in either direction and it gets ugly.

Since any stock area can (and should) be replaced by a completely original area...our approaches aren't mutually exclusive.

3 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

1. Just let me buy the approval with my RP. That is the purpose of the wait anyway is it not?

What stops anyone from posting journals and RP logs that don't have anything to do with what they want, then using that RP to buy their thing? 

What stops a single player from having 20 things, hogging the slots?

There are multiple reasons we have apps, and replacing them doesn't have a simple solution.

1 hour ago, Celerity said:

Since any stock area can (and should) be replaced by a completely original area...our approaches aren't mutually exclusive.

My gripe with yours is that you stated that we should not add new areas, at least until every stock area is redone. I think that is unfair to players that either currently have characters that are trying to add new areas (or revamp non-stock areas) or want to make such characters soon, be denied that opportunity whilst the build team is stuck on a vast project that may or may not even be agreed upon.

I prefer to have that option left open, and tackle the facelifts along the way.

2 hours ago, Lloth said:

What stops anyone from posting journals and RP logs that don't have anything to do with what they want, then using that RP to buy their thing? 

What stops a single player from having 20 things, hogging the slots?

There are multiple reasons we have apps, and replacing them doesn't have a simple solution.

I agree.

What if we encourage players to tag journals as "for future application".

Then if the immortal rewarding the journal or log sees the character has applied the required RP toward the application said immortal could place preapproval on the character.

Then it's up to the character to decide when he buys into the quest.

This may help eliminate some of the mid level qstuff complaints.

Just thinking out loud.

How is that different than the application system? You still have an immortal reviewing your RP and deciding when it is sufficient for what you're trying for.

35 minutes ago, Lloth said:

How is that different than the application system? You still have an immortal reviewing your RP and deciding when it is sufficient for what you're trying for.

I think the only difference would be you could write some journals a work, paste them in on free time and then get the q spot with no interactive rp.  I don’t see this as better than our current quest app system.

@Lloth Btw, thank you for actively engaging in these threads. Means a lot!

First, Your right @Lloth, very good point. Not much different.

My thoughts...

Well, if I write an app, and then have to wait for the approval, I am invested and waiting. Meanwhile knowing nothing of how my application is coming along, is it under review, was it discredited immediately, has anyone even read it, I must carry on and play through. And that is the way it is.

But, if a player could acquire the RP preapproval threshold needed for this or that, said player would "feel" better about the experience. Waiting a while for a probable yes would be less disappointing then waiting a while for what may be a no.

One way has hope, and people like hope.

Just an idea on applications...

When you are given a chance to apply for a cabal the code gives you 6 days to send it, what if sending apps flags the appropriate immortal that's he has 6 days to approve or reject it. Then if by chance the IMM misses it it's auto approved after the time runs out?

6 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Well, if I write an app, and then have to wait for the approval, I am invested and waiting. Meanwhile knowing nothing of how my application is coming along, is it under review, was it discredited immediately, has anyone even read it, I must carry on and play through. And that is the way it is.

We read them. We see new application messages like you see notes. They are checked every day. When you experience long wait times, it is extremely rare that it is anything other than us not wanting to discourage anyone by denying. There's something more we are looking for from the character, an unresolved conflict between the character's development and the qthing RP, or just not enough consistent role play. As denial has such a negative affect on players, the lesser of the two evils becomes leaving it in an open status and observing development. Any player that would prefer it the other way is more than welcome to post in prayer at the time of application submission.

Would it be beneficial to add a response to applications?

"We have seen your application and you are being observed."

2 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said:

Just an idea on applications...

When you are given a chance to apply for a cabal the code gives you 6 days to send it, what if sending apps flags the appropriate immortal that's he has 6 days to approve or reject it. Then if by chance the IMM misses it it's auto approved after the time runs out?

Wait a minute....

You're talking about cabal app? It's members of said cabal who vote on such apps, not IMMs.

I think he means that you submit your application, the cabal Imm approves (and is then sent to the cabal to vote) or disapproves (in which you're rejected outright,  IE: veto).

15 minutes ago, Lloth said:

We read them. We see new application messages like you see notes. They are checked every day. When you experience long wait times, it is extremely rare that it is anything other than us not wanting to discourage anyone by denying. There's something more we are looking for from the character, an unresolved conflict between the character's development and the qthing RP, or just not enough consistent role play. As denial has such a negative affect on players, the lesser of the two evils becomes leaving it in an open status and observing development. Any player that would prefer it the other way is more than welcome to post in prayer at the time of application submission.

I would say that is worse.  Especially if you end up with a denial in the end anyways.  Though I am sure no matter the wait people hate rejection.  

Personally I loathe the wait time on applications.  You never know if progress is being made. I wish there was a finite set limit.  You apply for Vampire, it takes x hours in game, your approved.

19 minutes ago, Magick said:

I think he means that you submit your application, the cabal Imm approves (and is then sent to the cabal to vote) or disapproves (in which you're rejected outright,  IE: veto).

This makes no sense and is actually a step back from the current situation....

Currently, the moment you submit the app, it is sent to the CABAL for voting. And that's it. A pretty simple and straightforward process.

25 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Wait a minute....

You're talking about cabal app? It's members of said cabal who vote on such apps, not IMMs.

22 minutes ago, Magick said:

I think he means that you submit your application, the cabal Imm approves (and is then sent to the cabal to vote) or disapproves (in which you're rejected outright,  IE: veto).

He means borrowing the timer function on cabal apps, using it for qthing apps, and making a timeout be an autoapproval.

1 minute ago, Kyzarius said:

I would say that is worse.  Especially if you end up with a denial in the end anyways.  Though I am sure no matter the wait people hate rejection.  

Personally I loathe the wait time on applications.  You never know if progress is being made. I wish there was a finite set limit.  You apply for Vampire, it takes x hours in game, your approved.

That was the purpose of my reply, to illustrate that we review apps on login and while online as our time permits. The safe assumption is that if it is submitted, it is being reviewed. As I said, if you would rather the chain of fast denials until you have what we are looking for, simply submit a prayer post when applying to let us know. If you want an update, prayer forum is, again, the way to go.

The reason I can't, personally, see us doing automated approvals is that there is no real method of QC.