New Players!

[Rensvert]

So about 3 weeks ago now I decided to conduct a little experiment on how FL treats new players. By doing so I created 4 new Forums accounts and would post on them as new players ranging from someone who is a total newb to muds, to someone who acts like he knows everything. What I figured out during this process was far worse than just some forum meanness to new players. My idea for this was to see just how our forum community could improve towards new players with every intention of posting what I figured out here.

Now to do this effectively I would need to make sure no one could trace these accounts back to me. So I used 4 different computers with 4 different brand new email address I created all under different names and set up in different locations. I used 4 different computers at 4 different locations to make sure each account would be attached to a different IP. These computers ranged from my ipad picking up off cellular phone towers, a computer at work, a public computer at a library and a friends computer at his home. So far none of these accounts have been approved for doing anything on the forums. I went through the proper steps to activate these accounts and not a single one has been approved for doing anything, except looking at the forums, which to be fair you dont even need an account to do.

Now I ask you why this is important, I see it as most important because if we can't be a tad bit quicker on forum activation then how do we expect people to actually stick around? For someone stumbling on to this mud without help either from a friend in real life, or from help on these forums very few people are going to stick around. Now I know a lot of people agree that the starting area needs work and that it is getting some attention, but what about our forum work? We can not expect new players to stick around for 3 weeks without being able to even ask a question on the forums. To me this is serious and should be looked into, maybe I am the only one who cares if new players will actually receive any attention on these forums.

[mmajunkie]

You say you went though the proper steps....are you sure about that? Did you follow the guidelines and post in prayer on each account? A lot of people don't realize they have to do this.

If you didn't know - that's a regulation to get activated. So....it may not have been because it was new players. It was because the forum accounts didn't go through the proper means.

[Pali]

Did you follow the guidelines and post in prayer on each account? A lot of people don't realize they have to do this.

I hope you realize that you just made his point for him. If people don't realize they have to do this, then we need to make it more obvious so that more do.

I do understand that even the most obvious things will be completely unnoticed by a disturbing percentage of people, but if even people who have been here for a while don't know this stuff, that's not a good sign.

[Anume]

There are no new accounts awaiting activation that I am aware of. There is a thread stickied telling you you have to post on prayer and ask for activation, listing your past and present characters. If you do not do so, I can't know that it is not just a spammer account.

Apart from that we have the rule of one account per person. So please refrain from creating several accounts.

[Rensvert]

I am aware of the you have to post in the prayer forum and for each account I did this. What I'm worried about is why no imm actually took the time to approve said accounts.

However as Pali said that is the kind of stuff that needs to be made available to everyone more readily.

[Pali]

Anume, during account creation is there a message that one must also post on Prayer that they are not a bot? If not, I'd recommend one if possible. A good number of people might not bother looking through threads before trying to create an account and when difficulty is encountered along the way just stop bothering.

EDIT: A lot of places also will send an email to the person registering that they must go through a link in to complete account activation as a means to deal with bots - this also might be a worthwhile alternative if possible.

[jibber]

vBulletin allows 'messages' to unapproved accounts.

[Brehan]

I am aware of the you have to post in the prayer forum and for each account I did this. What I'm worried about is why no imm actually took the time to approve said accounts.

Actually you didn't, I have gone all the way through prayer forum to the end of may and there are only 2 requests for activation one posted on 4/18/11 that was activated on 4/18/11 as well as one on 4/27/11 activated on 4/28/11. I do not know what you posted to but it sure was not the prayer forum asking for an account activation so you may want to refrain from knocking the imms for not doing something. I suggest A you should not have made the accounts in the first place as there are only 1 active account allowed at a time per person. And B go check those names and see where you in fact posted if you did at all.

[f0xx]

I remember when I started playing again 3 years ago. I had no idea why my new forum account was not allowed to post. I tried and I tried, after a month of waiting I decided to PM this new guy "Malchaeius" who was supposed to be running things. I asked a few things, one of the being why was I not able to post and asked for this ability to be allowed for me. Even with this done, I still had to wait 1 more month before I could post.

I admit, this thing pissed me off greatly and if I weren't a long time player who is starting to play again, this would have simply pushed me away.

Just my 2 cents.

[Imoutgoodbye]

maybe I am the only one who cares if new players will actually receive any attention on these forums.

Let's see if I got this. You:

A) Broke forum rules.

Are saying you followed guidelines.

C) And last, but not least, are creating inflammatory/false remarks such as the one above.

Take a chill pill and pass along concerns to members of the Community Management Team or the CMT Leaders or the IMM Staff. Don't go blackballing yourself.

[Pali]

Regardless of the rightness or wrongness of Rensvert's actions, they do at least show some potential for confusion regarding new people attempting to create forum accounts. Given the IMM statements, he likely didn't post on Prayer, but as I said the fact that he didn't know that he should have is alone problem enough.

[Brehan]

This is stickied on GENERAL, accessable to even non account holders.

http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=12996

[Brehan]

I remember when I started playing again 3 years ago.

Alot has changed in 3 years and I guarantee account activation is within 2 days as sometimes it slips past through several other Prayer Forum posts.

[f0xx]

I don't know how it is now Brehan, and I don't intend to do a test myself, like the one Rensvert did, because even if I manage to prove the system has faults, everything the IMMs and the members of the infamous CMT (whatever it stands for) would care is that I broke the rules.

And I can assure you, the system has faults.

Please tell me, do you ever read ALL the sticked threads in a new forum you join?

Do you really think a player would know what a "prayer forum" stands for?

Do you really think a player would stay around for more than a day without the ability to post?

And please, don't take this post as a personal flame, because it is not.

I do care about attracting new players though and I do care about making our game (and forums in that line) more newbie friendly and better organized.

So take this and Rensvert's posts as constructive criticism and not as a flame, like Valek tried to make it look.

[Pali]

This is stickied on GENERAL, accessable to even non account holders.

http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=12996

With respect, Brehan, the point has been that having it stickied in the general forums is not exactly the ideal of newbie-friendly. Having a message given automatically during the final stages of account creation would be a way to make things a little easier on newbs while still protecting against bots - other ways to accomplish the same goals also exist.

[Brehan]

With respect' date=' Brehan, the point has been that having it stickied in the general forums is not exactly the ideal of newbie-friendly. Having a message given automatically during the final stages of account creation would be a way to make things a little easier on newbs while still protecting against bots - other ways to accomplish the same goals also exist.[/quote']

If I remember correctly when I made the Brehan account in my email it told me what exactly to do, I will check my email as I do not think I have deleted it, but I am pretty sure it stated to post on the prayer section for activation.

[Pali]

I honestly do not know what happens during account creation - I'm just saying that if it wasn't clear enough for Rensvert to know to make the Prayer posts, it might be worth looking into ways to make it more obvious.

[Brehan]

Do you really think a player would stay around for more than a day without the ability to post?

Did you not just post moments ago saying you played for two months without activation? Im just saying...

So take this and Rensvert's posts as constructive criticism and not as a flame' date=' like Valek tried to make it look.[/quote']

If it was truly constructive criticism and he found a problem then great we may be able to fix it, however posting on general to take shots at the imm staff can be viewed by these new players who may just be trolling the forum and seeing negative posts towards staff. It should have been taken to the Prayer forum so we could look into it further as opposed to making it look like we are a bunch of (whatever it is he is trying to make us look like) on General. I am personally looking into it and have spotted something myself and have posted to the others. To all that have contributed something positive in this thread thank you for bringing this up. And have a nice day.

[f0xx]

Did you not just post moments ago saying you played for two months without activation? Im just saying...

Come on, I did because I am old player and I know that my time here will not be wasted. A new player has no way to know that.

If it was truly constructive criticism and he found a problem then great we may be able to fix it, however posting on general to take shots at the imm staff can be viewed by these new players who may just be trolling the forum and seeing negative posts towards staff. It should have been taken to the Prayer forum so we could look into it further as opposed to making it look like we are a bunch of (whatever it is he is trying to make us look like) on General. I am personally looking into it and have spotted something myself and have posted to the others. To all that have contributed something positive in this thread thank you for bringing this up. And have a nice day.

I agree on your second notion.

But, instead of taking the defensive position (and attacking him for breaking the rules) you guys can simply take a note and say something along the lines, "Thank you for bringing this up, we will consider it. Please next time post such things in prayer".

[Brehan]

Come on, I did because I am old player and I know that my time here will not be wasted. A new player has no way to know that.

I agree on your second notion.

But, instead of taking the defensive position (and attacking him for breaking the rules) you guys can simply take a note and say something along the lines, "Thank you for bringing this up, we will consider it. Please next time post such things in prayer".

And I do not look at it like I took a defensive position, I merly stated the rule. As well as that he indeed was wrong about posting for activation through these accounts as there are no posts on prayer unless one if the two said accounts are that of. Quicksilver or Kyrrat as they were the only two to do so all the month of April.

[Anume]

Usually, I do activations as soon as the player submitted his past and present char names on prayer. If I forget someone, so far they always have bumped their thread and then gotten approved.

[Liadon Xiloscient]

In a forum I used to be apart of and help operate as a moderator. My soul job was to watch over a few specific threads / sub-threads. Instead of having a "private help thread" which takes in ALL player to moderator interactions perhaps breaking down the "help" by categories.

I'm not sure what kind of tool you used to make the posts within the Prayer thread "invisible" to everyone except yourself and the moderators but it's really cool, and I'm going to assume it can be repeated.

With this in mind, perhaps make a seperate Player to Moderator thread which is titled "Account Activation / Player Registration". It is painful to see very intelligent and down to Earth people miss some of the more blatantly obvious things BUT having things spelt out and your hand held will help newer players ten fold.

What we did, was had a few different Moderators which could log-in x amount of days per week to check requests, and to handle any forum disturbances. THAT WAS their ONLY job description. Think of a... Forum Human Relations (FHR).

Kinda a cool title, and I'm sure you can find at least a couple different people to lesson the load on Anume and the others that tend to player requests.

Anyways, this is me trying to help what what I know on Moderating Forums. I have a HUGE background with role-playing on forum based sites:

Acornrack, Avidgamers, Gaiaonline, so on and so on...

[Volgathras]

Thank you for your interest in helping the community improve, and we'll certainly consider what you've brought forward.

[Rensvert]

Actually you didn't, I have gone all the way through prayer forum to the end of may and there are only 2 requests for activation one posted on 4/18/11 that was activated on 4/18/11 as well as one on 4/27/11 activated on 4/28/11. I do not know what you posted to but it sure was not the prayer forum asking for an account activation so you may want to refrain from knocking the imms for not doing something. I suggest A you should not have made the accounts in the first place as there are only 1 active account allowed at a time per person. And B go check those names and see where you in fact posted if you did at all.

Wow i go to bed and wake up and this thread has freaking exploded. First off yes I did post in the prayer forum.

Account 1 and 2 was on 4-15 and accounts 3 and 4 were on 4-22. If the immortal staff would like I can bump the accounts on prayer so they can see how they slipped through their fingers. However I am out after that. All I tried to do was help the mud by seeing what new players went through on these forums. What I received from members of the CMT staff were comments on flamming, and being called a liar. I never wanted to break the forums rules, but heck what harm can it do to this player base if it helps me show stuff to the player base. Clearly I was wrong on that fact.

Now second I did honestly think about putting this in the prayer forum however I generally dont even get responses in the prayer forums, so I figured it was better off if I put it here so the entire Player base could evaluate upon it. Maybe that wasnt the best choice I've ever had but it was the choice I went with and to be honest I dont think it a bad one. However I only tried to help the staff here and the player base on this but I get called a liar by immortals and by a CMT staff member for no uncertain terms. Regardless I'm done after this however like I said I will bump the other accounts so the Immortal staff can figure out how this happened.

Rens

[Anume]

Please do. If I overlooked something I'm sorry for that. As accounts can only be activated by Zhokril and myself, a post might get lost when we both are busy with real life issues.

We will certainly examine if it is possible to include telling new players to post on the prayer forum for activation in the activation process.

I think you truly meant well, however the way you went about it is not the correct one.

As to your statement that posts on prayer do not get a reply: they only get no reply if we do not know either. Sometimes a thread waits for a certain Imm to comment, sometimes, there is not really much to say. If you feel you need a reply and have not gotten one, you can always bump your prayer post.