Should do that weapons damage type to the victim.
For example if I charge attack wielding an ice sword the charge damage isn't ice based, why is that? If we are required to use specific weapons for specific skills then shouldn't that weapons damage type be carried over?
UC
That actually makes sense.
Charge damage is momentum (physical).
I believe this, like everything else is for balance purposes. Though halflings deserve some relief from this in my opinion.
If charge did weapon type damage, with a bonus to damage roll for the momentum, races with vulnerabilities would surely suffer.
A lot of the best vuln striking weapons are spears, swords, and polearms, add to this that charge has no cool down and see its troubles multiply.
If for instance damage eaten by a vuln weapon is max damage * 150%, and charge damage is damage * 150%, then your average 27 strike hits for 62 before equipment/skill modifiers.
Charge, flee, repeat.
13 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:
Charge damage is momentum (physical).
I believe this, like everything else is for balance purposes. Though halflings deserve some relief from this in my opinion.
If charge did weapon type damage, with a bonus to damage roll for the momentum, races with vulnerabilities would surely suffer.
A lot of the best vuln striking weapons are spears, swords, and polearms, add to this that charge has no cool down and see its troubles multiply.
If for instance damage eaten by a vuln weapon is max damage * 150%, and charge damage is damage * 150%, then your average 27 strike hits for 62 before equipment/skill modifiers.
Charge, flee, repeat.
Hit the nail on the head.
Yeah, because flee/charge damaging with a single specific weapon type for 1 attack is gonna do more damage than flee/murder dual wielding vuln weapons...
What was I thinkin?
I didn't even take into account that the current charge damage algorithm could be modified to a simple *2-3-4 hit damage for simplicities sake in order to give off the same damage output that should take consideration into the wielded weapon your forced to use.
My bad
But you can charge WHILE dual wielding. What would your suggestion do for mounted combat? How would it be affected by + charge race/perks? How much stronger would high sight become? Why stop at charge? Why not cleave?
19 minutes ago, Unknown Criminal said:
Yeah, because flee/charge damaging with a single specific weapon type for 1 attack is gonna do more damage than flee/murder dual wielding vuln weapons...
What was I thinkin?
I didn't even take into account that the current charge damage algorithm could be modified to a simple *2-3-4 hit damage for simplicities sake in order to give off the same damage output that should take consideration into the wielded weapon your forced to use.
My bad
Do not respond to constructive criticism so negatively. It is not doing you any favors.
I understand the idea of momentum damage for armored rush where it is done with a shoulder, along with bash and bodyslam, but to charge is weapon forward. Without being a weapon attack then what aesthetically makes it any different than an opening bash, bodyslam, rush?
For the example of charge, flee, repeat isn't that already a common tactic for using charge anyway?
Edit: I also agree cleave should be also.
14 minutes ago, Lloth said:
Do not respond to constructive criticism so negatively. It is not doing you any favors.
I'm not negative, I'm sarcastic ;) People who read text often incorporate their own mood into how the information is received, I encourage everyone to partake in some happiness or sarcasm before reading any of my post because there is a high probability I will be in a good mood when writing :)
I also don't want any favors, I made blatiantly obvious suggestion where skills that involved you to wield include the damtype of the weapon. If there is a balance issue it's not because of my suggestion, it's because old code didn't take weapon damage into consideration when it was written.
Back in the old days when the charge code was originally written the majority of damages were mundane, so a mundane damaging skill was a perfect insert. I think the first update to charge was to add weapon types, then lag times and restrictions, then mounted, going forward I think the next update should be the obvious one.
Go simple and remove weapons from being needed, this will keep charge mundane. Force people to wield weapons to do the skill and they should be able to choose what kind of damage they do with their charge.
44 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:
But you can charge WHILE dual wielding. What would your suggestion do for mounted combat? How would it be affected by + charge race/perks? How much stronger would high sight become? Why stop at charge? Why not cleave?
Make charge a 2 handed weapon skill,
Create a new skill for smaller races enabling them to dual wield charge similar to circle stab.
Id rather be charged by a high sight crusader than pushed onto water OR separated from my pets.
Cleave should take weapon damtype into consideration too, why not? Dark knights malform which removes damtype anyways.
Are you sure charge, cleave etc DOESN'T take vuln damage into account? Pretty sure I have been cleaved for vuln damage and charge gives fire giant fire bonus.
23 minutes ago, Celerity said:
Are you sure charge, cleave etc DOESN'T take vuln damage into account? Pretty sure I have been cleaved for vuln damage and charge gives fire giant fire bonus.
Pretty sure Cleave was changed for just that reason - Faith Malforms were just nasty for Vulns! Fire giant Bonus damage isn't applied directly to Fire damage, but as a passive damage boost - hence why it can affect weapons that are Fire Material - but not fire dam type.
Long time since i tested any of this - but Charge definitely didn't take into account Vulns the last time i tried it out - it does Physical damage - not the weapon noun.
Charge is it's own damage noun.
Last time I played a DK cleave did use the weapon damage type. Faith malforms have little impact, because Cleave damage has always been like charge/Mounted charge, independent of weapon average roll, just weapon damage type. Getting a vuln weapon to cleave always has been a player-skill rewarding factor. Like the air axe, or Fire Lance, or Ice sword or Blackwatch sword. Not to speak that Faith malforms are one of the wrost malforms compared with the good one, unless you you happen to be some thing about fighting undead.
If I log on one of my DK's, I check for you guys.
Won't comment on Crusader "charge" but if you have a crusader you can test this very easy.
Charge from what I know is still good old bash damage type. That would be a >>> ANNIHILATES <<< vs good old gnomes mobs.
I mark mounted charge at ~175 HP and cleave a ~225.
Hahaha, remenber our Halloween halfling cleaving testing @Magick. What year was that?
But UC has a good point. Is it worth to charge when you can do better damage with a vuln open round?
In my opinion charge is a utility tool, best used as surprise opener for lag. Or to lag a fleeing mage. The point being a insane HR/DR meele will do better with murder, for most of us common mortals charge is an 95% chance of Caps damage that isn't cut by armor.
So if you are fighting some 1000 AC mage, or a non counter defensive meele, you might value charge.
19 minutes ago, mya said:
Hahaha, remenber our Halloween halfling cleaving testing @Magick. What year was that?
Should be 2014. The same year that somebody dropped the Refracted Horror and the Spectral Lurker on our heads. Not naming names. :D
Whoever did that sounds like a jerk. Was it Naru?
...It was Naru, wasn't it? :P
No, fairly sure Navi did the encore performance the following year with the Puppetmaster, Dragon of Unlife, Demoninicon, Lurker and a couple others. :taunt: This one, if memory serves, was Morlhach.
Had to have fun somewhere. ;)
Back no topic: FG's have a chance for a fire-bases bash or charge. Charge takes on DAM_BASH, by the way, usually. Cleave .. I'm not sure. Pretty sure it's as Celerity remembers. I'll look into it later.
Cleave uses the dam_type of the weapon wielded.
12 hours ago, Lloth said:
Hit the nail on the head.
How exactly did he hit the nail on the head?
Charge is such a useless skill. Ask Anume. How many times did you see Thulgan charge you? UC is right on this one - you are always better off using murder.
This suggestion might just make charge a bit more useful.
Only possible problem I see are minos, but their charge needs a rework either way.
