Evangelion Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Yes, I know there is a thread a few below this one about China. Please bear with me as I need a completely different set of information. I have been tentatively offered a position teaching English at a school in Qingdao. To be perfectly clear, I know absolutely zero Chinese, and not much about the culture. Does anyone know anything about this area of China? Also, those of you (Celerity, -red-?, etc.) who teach English in China, what can you tell me about these programs? I'm not looking for touristy information, but information about successfully living in China for a year. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-red- Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 First, Qingdao is a great city. Seaside, reasonably clean, decent weather, and great beer. It's better than the sink-hole I'm living in, that's for damn sure. As for english programs, they're as varied as the companies that offer them. The biggest difference is whether or not you're going through a college or a training school (like English First). Salary: For colleges, you're looking at roughly 4000 yuan (like 600 bucks i think?) a month for around 20 hours of work. Training school pay more (starting at 4.5, higher for bigger cities/companies, also depending on experience) but you work more hours. Schools like EF also require you to sit in the office and make lesson plans a certain number of hours. Benefits: Checks for 1.) Housing - if they do not offer housing, make sure they compensate you monetarily and will help you find a reasonable apartment. This is important! 2.) Visa - you'll probably have to pay to come, but they should cover the fees to have your tourist visa changed to a professional work visa (if they want to go that route). 3.) Air fare - you'll most probably have to pay your flight in to china, but many companies, after a year contract, will pay your flight back home. Ask if they offer this. Holidays: Depending on whether you're teaching in a college or training school, vacations vary. You'll always get Spring Festival (around Feb/Jan) off, about a month or three weeks. Many companies offer some time off for Summer Holiday as well, around August. The job: Most of the time they're looking to hire foreigners for their colloquial english skills, so focus your class on talking. This is particularly difficult for college classes, since the kids are all too shy to talk. Don't get frustrated if they aren't chatty from the get-go. Mostly, you'll be left to your own devices. If you're teaching anything less than college level classes, request an assistant for your classroom - it makes a big difference if you can't speak the language, obviously. General information for comfortable living: Make note of the nearest market, supermarket, police station, restaurant with a picture menu and hospital. It is highly highly recommended you learn some of the language for convenience sake, especially numbers (they have special hand signs for the numbers that'd be worth learning as well). Try to find out where the foreigners hang in their time off, it'll help keep you sane for the first few months while you try to acclimate. If you need anything else, let me know. I live about 6 hours by train from Qingdao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Well, they finalized their offer for the job. They're offering me: 5000 RMB (yuan?) per month (with 80RMB/hour overtime), free housing, and reimbursed airfare at the end of the contract. The contract states that they follow the Chinese Holiday calendar. The school is a private, foreign language school called Qingdao Leewan Foreign Language School. Um... decision-making process = started. Any further thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 If that is your dream then it sounds pretty good, but there is no way I could live on 600 - 700 bucks a month. Also, I am picky about who and where I live, and would rather pay for decent housing with bathrooms, showers, a stove, wifi, etc, then live in a shack with 6 other guys in China and relieve myself in a 'community outhouse hole' down the street... I think the 'teach english overseas' thing is hugely over-rated, but I am desktop quarterbacking here. My only experience with other nations has been as a guest and tourist, not on a work visa or as an educator. Good luck with whatever course you choose in life. It could be a blast. However, you don't take this type of job for the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bavarianbrew Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'm curious why you're considering China versus Taiwan versus Korea versus Japan versus Malaysia versus Thailand versus... These are just a few random thoughts and experiences. Why China is a more viable option: + BA Degree is not really necessary + Non-native English speaking country passport not really necessary + Airfare Reimbursed + University work (Good for your CV) - Spitting - Pollution - Scams - Negotiating often required (Spend an hour to save $2US, really??) - One child only policy = "me first" society - Mandarin would be very helpful to learn. Teaching in Taiwan versus China: + Wages are higher, standard of living is higher + Safest country in the world (sans Japan) + Japanese influenced (Best of Japan without being Japanese) + Taiwanese are not Chinese (They queue.) + Transportation in Taiwan is super good and super efficient. + Foreigners totally welcome - Airfare not normally reimbursed, but possible. - Housing not normally reimbursed, but possible. - Mandarin would be very helpful to learn. Teaching in Korea versus China: + Wages are higher, standard of living is higher + Airfare often paid for upfront + Accommodation often good, and included + Very good school structure, parents and admin supportive - Keeping up with the Jones' rampant - Xenophobia rampant - Freezing in Winter - North Korea Teaching in Japan versus China: + Wages are quite good since the Yen is so damn high + Japan - Accommodation and Airfares not normally reimbursed - Japan is a Cover Your *** Society, Everyone covers their ***. - Passive Aggressive Society - Goods cost serious cash, while a budget will need to be observed - It can get frickin' cold as a witch's titty (Insulation for a house??) South East Asia versus China: + People are the most friendly of all. + Standard of living higher because of Western amenities + Food is super good, diverse, inexpensive + It never snows. + It can and is often humid, hot and rainy. + English will get you through most of the time, open doors, etc... - There are Muslim extremists in certain areas, civil unrest, etc... - Wages are low. - Airfare normally not reimbursed. - Accommodation not normally provided. So with all of these silly observations and generalizations I've made, I believe that the people make the place. For example, Thais are rather quirky and happy-go-lucky (rarely plan ahead) type of people, they improvise often playing it by ear (this might be a nightmare as a English Teacher). Koreans are rough, but don't mess around when it comes to education (which is good for English Teachers). But well, it ain't easy breaking into society. This all goes without mentioning that men are above women socially in most of these places. But as a Westerner of either gender, this should not be a problem, but something to keep in mind. AND there are exceptions to every so-called rule. As a Westerner you can break all of them. Personally, I would choose in this order based on these: Taiwan = Money and People Southeast Asia = People Korea = Money Japan = Japan (It will be love/hate.) Read The Ghost Letters Blog China = China Simplistic, but hey, call me a liar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-red- Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 In most cities, 5k is more than reasonable. You'll have nearly all of the amenities you'll find in the us including wifi and you'll probably be living on your own. Because your rent will be taken care of, and you'll probably be traveling by bike everywhere (taxi if you're lazy) your only real expenses will be utilities and food. Depending on how you eat (local or foreign) that's like 1000-1500 a month, leaving you with pleeeenty of money to party, travel, etc. You wont be able to save up for a new car in the states, but you absolutely wont be hurting for funds. Consider that most college english professors only make around 3000 a month, and many people survive off of about a thousand. You could also do some one-on-one tutoring (if your contract allows, or you could do it secretly) for some easy extra funds - foreigners generally charge around 150rmb/hour. To give an example, my tuition for med school is 21,000 a year - cheap as hell for what I'm learning - and I save that in 4 months. re Bavarian: While I agree with the majority of your observations, they are generalized. The place Balinor's planning to go (Qingdao) trumps a lot of those cons. -Spitting: There will be some, but Qingdao has had a great deal of foreign influence (Dutch, I believe), and as a bigger, more international city it has less of the 'big village' mentality many cities suffer from. You will see some (and worse - I once saw a grown woman pissing in the middle of the street) but it's not pandemic. -Pollution: Blue skies are a rarity in China, but Qingdao, especially after the olympics (was that Qingdao or Qinghuan dao, I forget), has really cleaned up. Pair that with the fact that it's seaside and you're looknig at a decent environment. -Scams: You'll get this everywhere, best bet is to protect yourself with forknowledge, as we've already given in other posts. -Negotiation: Nearly always required. If you're not good with negotiations, or don't like to, then you're in for a struggle. I advise you to go shopping with chinese friends who can help you NOT get ripped off (I speak chinese well enough to get whatever I like, but I still bring my girlfriend because simply having a Chinese person around makes the seller more malleable). -OCP: As a teacher where you'll see this most is the parents. The guy who get me in to this gig used to say "This job would be great if it weren't for the parents' and that's true - everyone thinks they're child is the best thing to happen to humanity (the OCP has spawned what they call the "Little Emperor Syndrome"). The children, on the other hand, often do NOT act poorly, since performance in school and respect for teachers is an important part of Chinese society. Luckily, you'll rarely be dealing with parents. -Mandarin: With its prevalence in the world, the fact that you're in the perfect environment to study it, and its insight in to the cuture you're living in, why WOULDN'T you want to learn a little bit? Now I can only speculate on living in those others countries because I haven't, but several of the teachers who work here have, and you get varying reports. Japan and Korea both work you to the bone, but you make great cash. Southeast Asian countries suffer from a lot of the same issues that china does in regards to scams, pollution, etc. Taiwan, no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I've been working in Asia for about five years now teaching English. First about Evan's situation: Personally, I will never want to teach at a for-profit English school again. The mentality is about selling the class to the parents. The bottom line is that they are companies and they want profit. This means it is often better to bull**** and put on shows rather than do any teaching. Making the kids happy and ultimately the parents is the goal for the teacher, not actually learning anything. If you are an untrained teacher, don't really care about teaching in general, or you are just doing this job to get in the country, this might not be a big problem for you. I hated it, personally. I love kids and I got along well with the parents (in contrast to Red's statements), but I really disliked the attitude of the company and the teaching methodology. No Chinese and no culture knowledge is fine and normal. Almost no teachers that come to any of these countries know anything useful before they come. Don't worry about that. There are many teachers who have stayed in these countries for a very long time and still can't say anything beyond a few basic words. One important thing to do is to throw out your previous conceptions about the Chinese. Shanghai (where I teach) is a much more modern city than most US and European cities. They don't live on river boats and they certainly aren't peasants. There will be some small cosmetic shocks (public defecation for toddlers, spitting, shouting on the phone, generally poor customer service), but these are pretty minor. Qingdao is an old german colony and is also quite developed. Job hunting: You should add up all the salary and benefits of each job as you see them. Calculate these things: salary for you (5000/month), housing (~1500/month), bills (~100/month), lunch (~150/month), and airfare (~800/month). If one job offers a higher salary but less benefits, make sure you know what you are really getting. Also check to see if you have housing/get paid during the 'holiday' month(s). Japan: You work much harder than China but you make much more money and can save more. You enjoy a higher standard of living and people are very polite/customer service-oriented. Japan is a quite a bit more traveler-friendly than China as well. Downsides again that you work hard and finding a good job is very competitive because most people choose Japan as their 1st choice in Asia. Taiwan: As described above, Japanese culture with Chinese benefits. Good points of both worlds. Bad point is you make less and save less money than in Japan/Korea. Jobs are also very competitive here and you'll probably be stuck in some crap job teaching kids in a language school. Korea: You work harder than you do in Japan and you make a bit less money, but you can save more due to lower living costs. Korea isn't attractive to me because it is strongly religious (Christian) and you work too hard. The working conditions aren't the best either. Expect split shifts and things like cameras in the classroom. This is kind of the 3rd choice for most people, unless you just want to work very hard and save cash, then it is #1. China: Usually the last choice for the big 4 east asian countries. Lowest salary and lowest saving potential. Work is like a vacation though--if you want to work hard, get to Korea instead and make a lot more money. Most teachers who come here have no skill/degree, are older (thus can't work in the more competitive countries), have some special interest in China, or want to get university teaching experience without a high-enough degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I guess public defecation is only a minor issue to Celerity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Public defecation is a popular past time of many societies. Just take a look at the aborigines. They crap all over the place; theaters, restaurants, even in the middle of the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Right, only minor. Just little kids. Annoying and a bit disgusting but not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thank you for all the insight. I will definitely have more questions over the coming weeks, I'm sure. Also, the reason I "picked" China is because the representative of the school essentially recruited me. I'm not necessarily looking for a job teaching English in Asia, so much as I was offered a job and am trying to decide whether or not to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bavarianbrew Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Also' date=' the reason I "picked" China is because the representative of the school essentially recruited me. I'm not necessarily looking for a job teaching English in Asia, so much as I was offered a job and am trying to decide whether or not to take it.[/quote'] In this case, I would suggest you skip teaching. Go travel instead. Go where your interests lie. Teaching, I believe is viable if you're broke, you need to escape your current circumstance, and you've got nothing better to do. I'd argue that enlisting in the military is within the same sphere, yet the perks and risks of a military service are far greater. Both experiences will build character, destroy character and jade one slightly and often permanently. Simply traveling doesn't oblige you to one local, people or culture - don't like a village, burn its bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 don't like a village, burn its bridge. You will almost certainly get killed engaging in such behavior through the east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 In this case, I would suggest you skip teaching. Go travel instead. Go where your interests lie. Teaching, I believe is viable if you're broke, you need to escape your current circumstance, and you've got nothing better to do. I'd argue that enlisting in the military is within the same sphere, yet the perks and risks of a military service are far greater. Both experiences will build character, destroy character and jade one slightly and often permanently. Simply traveling doesn't oblige you to one local, people or culture - don't like a village, burn its bridge. Or maybe, somebody goes abroad to teach because they want to live abroad and teach, not because they are 'forced' into the situation because of monetary or social problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balgashang Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 do you have to have a degree to teach your native language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 In most countries, you need at a least a 4-year degree with any major, like a BA. If you want to teach at some international schools or at all US military schools, you will need a teaching license, just like a teacher back home. Some countries you don't need a degree at all, just be a native speaker. Other countries you do need a degree, but you don't need to be a native speaker, just decently fluent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 How do all of the routine logistics work in China? Groceries? Transit? Health Care? Entertainment? Are they at all like these things in the US (or other Western cultures)? Also, has anyone been to Qingdao that has any other specifics on the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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