Non rpers

[Warpnow]

The world of aabahan if falling into the hands of non-rpers.

I swear to god. There are soooo many non rpers right now that the game has become very unenjoyable. People think that Rping and not going OOC are the same thing. People think just because they don't talk at all and run around killing people that its okay...and that just pisses me off.

Silent pk is not okay. Someone needs to tell everyone that.

I don't care if its not illegal, it should be. It is a degredation to a good mud to allow that kind of crap to continue.

I don't know, just venting, but I doubt I will be playing here anymore, we'll know for sure in the next couple days if you see my deletion post. I have been tryin and trying with several characters to start rp plots and no one cares at all. No one wants to rp, people want to be pk beasts with good eq who never use a single word unless its to get their priceless cabal promotion.

[Acerbity]

It actually is OK...

[Guest emp_newb]

Alot of people don't bite rp plots til you have been pushing for a while. Trust me. I got alot of shutups and leave me be's before one of my chars got any recognition. But stay strong. Perhaps their rp is the silent killer eh? Aggravation leads to flaming, flaming leads to banning, banning leads to other muds. Stay from the dark side of the post.

[Warpnow]

You want to rp a silent killer you can use emotes...

[Yuri]

You want to rp a silent killer you can use emotes...

Or just be a ninja ^_-

-cue bad BAD cliche pun here.-

<3

But Silent normally bad, but the vets are never silent ftm part. Nor are most others -shrug-

I do wish I could get into more rp plots but I never have the right char in the right cabal/align/pk ratio/importance/rank etc almost ever. ;\

[WarriorCleric]

Just because they don't talk to you, doesn't mean they aren't talking to others. Do you talk to your food?

Not saying I am for the silent killer rp, but I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.

WC

[Tom]

It's hard to be involved in hardcore RP plots without having PK credibility, that's my trouble. While you can get into cabals (even non-Herald) without being a good PKer, it really takes the wind out of your RP sails to be killed semi-constantly.

[Acerbity]

I RP'd, and PK'd every chance I got with Pominsu. I don't know if anyone wants to disagree with me or not, but everyone I fought with I RP'd with, and everyone who talked with me, I 'usually' RP'd with, unless I thought they were just throwing their whole life on me in a story of pity/greed which I didn't want to listen to.

I know only a few who don't RP at all who are actually in a cabal. I got like 3 words out of one, ONCE, because I beat the living hell out of him, then he beat the living hell out of me. Wanna know what he said? "Pity you had to run that time." That's all I got out of him. But you know what? I don't care. Everyone else who RP's makes up for his non-RPing self. So it's all good.

More RP then those who don't RP.

[Warpnow]

WC, I don;t know if you get it. You don't pick and choose when you want to rp...rp and pk are combined as one...the problem is, as Tom so beautifully put it, Rp and Pk are becoming seperate.

And rp is more than the just the "say" command. Emotes. emotes. emotes. EMOTES

Don't want to talk to your food? emote the looks on your face....or when they come back to their corpse, send them some emotes of you hacking their limbs off or something.

Cabals have totally channged since 1.0/2.0

Nexus kills knight. Seldom is there rp.

Knight kills nexus. No talk. Full loot. Better resuit.

Syndicate assassinates someone. whoop.

Savants kill a few warmasters...no one talks or emotes.

Its soooo boring.

The best place to be right now for rp is the teens in ranks.

Anyone who rps nowadays is considered a "pansy" and doesn't get any respect.

People are like, "Oh, herald...that's the rp cabal"

Hell no its not. All the cabals are rp cabals. Herald is one of the many possible rps.

[Fiere]

I disagree, on account of everyone I talk to talks back. Sure, some more than others, but it does happen. And frick, I'm not even in any cabals right now.

[Guest emp_newb]

There is alot of cabal rp. Just because its not some huge plot doesn't mean its not rp. I have rped with many of my cabal vendettas. Its just not always huge man.

[Mister E]

One thing I will concede is that there is never TOO much rp. But from my experience there is quite a lot of good rp out there, sometimes you have to go and find it or even create it with your own good rp.

[Chayesh]

Well, so far, I agree with two things said.

You can never have TOO much RP.

RP is more than staying in character.

I get to see quite a lot from where I sit. I see a lot of strong RP out there. In fact, as I said in another thread, I think it's all about portrayal and tenacity. Some people mentioned trying to start up RP stuff with varying degrees of success. I think those who didn't have the success they were expecting need to re-examine how they RP and how they present their characters. Quite frankly, of the RP attempts made, I'd only heard of a couple. Some I'd never heard of and some I heard about once a long time ago and then...nothing. I guess they gave up. While RP is more than just staying in character, it's also not instaneous, at least not on the plot scale. Trust me, I know. I've been involved of plenty of them, both IMM driven and Player driven. Heck, I've planned them. It takes more than a couple of notes and talking to the same people you always talk to, whose characters you know from chatting outside the game and whatnot. It used to be said all the time that the same people got involved in RP plots over and over because they were the "teacher's pets" so to speak, because they had "connections" outside the game. I think those people are now realizing that it was because those people were just "damn good" and stuck it out to the end instead of calling it quits after a week of sending notes.

Time will certainly tell, but I don't think anything is going downhill with the RP and certainly FL isn't going away any time soon.

[Deykari]

I certaintly don't see this lack of RP, except in people who you can see are new and I've seen newer players giving it some effort.

Not only am I seeing more characters using emote says, I actually see characters on a regular basis using 'bespoke' emote says. Not just some alias that says "emote says in a cold, somewhat happy yet partly sinister tone" but things like "emote nods in agreement, "Yes I think so". "emote frowns, and says harshly, "Don't do that!" and whatnot.

As for PK/RP encounters, for the most part people have made the effort to speak with me, and some rather interesting little chats have come about them. As for Cabals, things may have changed recently (the last Cabal char I had was about a month ago) but all of my Cabal characters have always had the best RP, with both clan/Cabal allies and Cabal enemies alike. I've had enemies trying to reason to see peace, enemies trying to convert, I've had Cabal allies with me drawing up complex battle plans.

I think things if anything, are definately improving. In terms of personal player roleplay.

The only thing where I think things fumble, are when people attempt to start some RP or something unique that involves more of the playerbase. For that to work, it requires time, effort and dedication. Many people (including myself, I have done the same) would give up after not seeing any gains after a somewhat short period of time. It takes time for the playerbase not to be skeptical on the idea, and to support it. It takes time for the Imm's to approve anything that needs their intervention, because otherwise people would be starting things up and then deleting or whatnot. They need to prove they'll stick around to see their plot out. And that is no fault of the system, but rather, getting the right people with the right plot at the right time.

Dey

[Deykari]

WC' date=' I don;t know if you get it. You don't pick and choose when you want to rp...rp and pk are combined as one...[/quote']

They are indeed. But because after you die nobody spoke to you or emoted something doesn't mean they're a bad RPer. For a start, you can't judge the credibility of somebody's roleplay based on how they emote. RP is required for this MUD however because somebody doesn't take the time to RP with all their victims, or infact, a few of them, doesn't mean they don't RP.

If I was to RP a silent-killer to what I view as a perfectly RPed silent-killer is I would not stick around after I've killed someone to emote something. Get in, do your business, get out. I wouldn't speak to people unless I had good reason to, and I would give only limited response to people unless again, I had good reason to. Does that mean I have bad RP? No, it would just mean that people aren't saying anything to me that warrants a response. I would view it as "I am a professional killer of my trade and I have little time for petty chat.". I would not return simple hellos or goodbyes. Does that mean I don't have in-depth discussions, or don't RP? No, because it would be my characters RP to be quiet and reserved, only speaking when there is due reason. It would be the case of having to say the right thing to me, to speak at length about something. I have to admit that if you're using speech at a minimum that emotes should be used at least now and again, to show that you are acknowlding some form of RP, but again, it can sometimes be pulled off without, and how somebody emotes/smotes/pmotes definately shouldn't be the way inwhich a good RPer is judged.

I agree, I sometimes don't like it when someone kills me (especially more than once) and I hear nothing from them, but I can understand that it may be their RP not to, or perhaps even situational. I'm not going to be sending you tells if someone is chasing me or if my Cabal is under attack or godknows what else.

Hope none of the above is taken personally by anyone, just expressing my views. I just suppose I love a good debate.

Dey

[WarriorCleric]

WC' date=' I don;t know if you get it. You don't pick and choose when you want to rp...rp and pk are combined as one...the problem is, as Tom so beautifully put it, Rp and Pk are becoming seperate.[/quote']

You seem to have this idea that RP is done one way, and thats your way. I've sat around reading your posts where you start telling the imms how things are supposed to be, because you think them that way, but I've got news for you warpnow... you don't get it.

I have hardly ever used your Emotes. emotes. emotes. EMOTES I hardly ever used them while I was on with any of my cabal elders, I hardly ever used them with my quest races/class, and I sure as hell hardly ever used them with my Imm. Hell, I rarely used socials. Emotes don't make rp, playing the role you have decided on makes rp. RP is however you define your character.

Another isue with you not getting it is that you are right, things have changed since 1.0, RP has continued to increase. Before the forum was formed, how do you think people got into the ooc friendships? AIM transfered through game, in game created ooc connections. In 2.0 ooc connections ruled cabals with player run inductions, it was a huge freaking problem.

Now you make comparisons to Nexus killing Knights without rp and vica versa... but I read the Nexus and Knight helpfiles and it seems to me they have a pretty strong rp reasons to kill each other and treat the other like the scum of the earth.

Syndicate killing people isn't rp? Gee, I thought Syndicates story was that they were assassins... so it seems to me just a Syndicate killing someone for the price on their head is rp.

If I start talking about the other cabals, Savant and Warmaster, Watcher and Tribunal, I am going to be saying the same damn things, because thats what they are. The helpfiles don't discuss mechanics, they discuss story, and that story is used to define the ways players in those cabals should act.

It isn't that there is no rp, it's that you don't like the rp that exists.

You don't seem to like full looting, but your dead, why the hell would you need any of your things, and I've got an entire cabal to help so anything you have on your body, now dead, would go a long way towards arming them. And on the off chance your pittiful god does decided to bring you back, I would sooner see you naked in the streets than armed to the teeth again.

You seem to think think that Knight and Nexus, Warmaster and Savant, Watcher and Tribunal have to talk to each other, but they are enemies. They want to kill each other, not sit down and talk about it, does this mean that no talking should be the way to go? Hell no. I love talking to my enemies... sometimes. Others, I don't see a point. Your my enemy, I can kill you, and if I can kill you and I hate you, I will. Now when I am done killing you I will go talk to my friends.

This is an rp mud, and I am damn sure you can find quite a few threads where I am bashing that horse to death, but this is also a pk mud, and with that come a few sacrifices to ideal rp. One of which is the need to survive. If a player has killed you, and is just waiting at your corpse when you get back, and doesn't say anything to you, he isn't playing for pk, and he isn't for rp, he's just playing a game. If he were playing straight for pk he would be off resting up somewhere, if he were playing for straight rp he would talk to you.

You have one perspective on things right now, and thats of a disenchanted, just got pked, person. And the phrase that everyone has to come to grips with at some point is 'It can't be everyone else.'

As far as the teen ranks being the best place to rp? Why, because of the psuedo pk shield? Then that is piss poor FL rp in my opinion because you nullify the pk. Anyone pking at those ranks are declared trash, so the skilled players blow past those ranks without much hesitation because the game is meant to be played at 50, thats where the game is balanced. So the 'best rp' is happening at the teens, and I really doubt this is the case, it's because the pk is almost non-existant, and if thats the best rp people can muster, when the pk is gone, then that really isn't much for rp.

For every example of 'poor rp' you show me from a cabaled person, I am willing to be an incognito imm could show us some damn good rp from the same player. Why is it you don't see it? You're not in the right place, with the right people, at the right time. And thats not saying people pick and choose when to rp, thats saying their rp is in such a way that you won't see it shine, you'll only see the parts you don't like. And killing you might actually be a pretty big part of their rp.

Get used to it. This is not a new debate, it's been going on since beta, it's just different people saying the same thing at different times.

WC

[Warpnow]

I have hardly ever used your Emotes. emotes. emotes. EMOTES I hardly ever used them while I was on with any of my cabal elders, I hardly ever used them with my quest races/class, and I sure as hell hardly ever used them with my Imm.

Thanks. You just entirely, 100% proved my point. The say command is good and fine, but it doesn't get across expressions, gestures, etc.

You can't tell me a line like:

pmote stares at WarriorCleric for a moment, before brushing the hair out of his eyes, snickering and saying, "Quite the path you've chosen. Tell your god I appreciate his...work." before looking down at your corpse riding westward.;west

or, want a silent pker?

emote looks disconcernedly at you, furrowing his brows at the site of you and gritting his teeth and walking away.

doesn't improve the rp quality of the mud.

The problem is...people are forced to CHOOSE between hardcore rp or hardcore pk. You have to pick an rp focus'd char or a pk focus'd char, and that is a problem. Why do you have to choose? Because people pking don't take the time out to rp. Its too "bothersome" or "dangerous" to stop for a second and send out some emotes...to actually flesh out the attitude of your character.

What does a say tell you about a char? Very little. Using just says, the only rp you can carry out is the kind that is just loading your history or story or opinions onto your surroundings, which is a cheap knockoff of real rp.

Real rp is beyond saying what you believe, its living it. Its beyond saying how you act, its living. Rather than saying you are scared, cower. Rather than saying you are brave, act brave. Doesn't your character move a certain way? When he walks, isn't their something that defines him? When he thinks, does he bite his lip or look at his feet?

[Psycho Child]

Using nothing but says and the occasional social, I had a female dark knight back in 1.0 that was pretty hardcore pk, and still had five PALADINS who obeyed my every command from fear, or love, or both. Emote are not required for rp, they can be used to enhance it yes, but you can still have insane rp without them.

[Warpnow]

I have to disagree.

Using just says when things such as emotes and pmotes and smotes are available is doing something half-assed.

[Psycho Child]

Don't even know how to use pmotes/smotes. Never recieved a complaint about my rp. To each thier own I suppose.

[Warpnow]

Emote-

Emote sits down lightly on the ground.

Everyone sees.

Warpnow sits down lightly on the ground.

Pmote-

pmote looks sharply at Psycho Child, moving his hand to his hip and saying, "Draw, Partner."

Everyone sees.

Warpnow looks sharply at Psycho Child, moving his hand to his hip and saying, "Draw, Partner."

BUT Psycho Child sees.

Warpnow looks sharply at you, moving his hand to his hip and saying, "Draw, Partner."

Smote-

smote As the wind blows hard within the valley, Warpnow's hand moves to his hip, his eyes become focused on Psycho Child and he speaks, "Draw, Partner."

Everyone sees.

As the wind blows hard within the valley, Warpnow's hand moves to his hip, his eyes become focused on Psycho Child and he speaks, "Draw, Partner."

but Psycho child sees...

As the wind blows hard within the valley, Warpnow's hand moves to his hip, his eyes become focused on you and he speaks, "Draw, Partner."

[Psycho Child]

shoot Warpnow

Everyone sees:

Psycho Child pulls out his gun and shoots Warpnow dead center in the chest.

Warpnow has been SLAIN!

But Warpnow sees:

Psycho Child pulls out his gun and shoots you dead center in the chest.

You have been killed!

say Too much posing, too little action.

Everyone sees:

Psycho Child says: "Too much posing, too little action."

[Psycho Child]

You are saying that actions (shown by emotes) enhance rp. I say that actions (shown by commands) enhance rp as well. For instance instead of spitting in your face, I will throw a hellstream in your face. Gets my point accross much clearer.

[Warpnow]

Yes, because I can see how those 40ish skills/spells you have can display your character's every action. :-p

Characters aren't that shallow, they're very deep and complicated.

[WarriorCleric]

I'm sorry Warpnow, I guess I just don't understand you.

You keep telling people their wrong based on how you expect people to play the game. Though when I type help rules, I don't see your name listed.

You keep pushing emotes, but 90% of the time, you are not going to be in the room with the person who just killed you because it is stupid, after a fight you go rest up because someone else is going to kill you, this is a pk mud.

But the meat of it is no, people are not forced to choose between hardcore rp and hardcore pk, the players themselves choose to do so. I have seen nowhere where the imms have decreed this, and I have seen changes to the contrary. Look at bards, they are open pk targets now, the didn't use to be. That seems to be a slide from the classic hardcore rp class, and Herald have always been viable pk targets, noone in FL gets a pk shield, so everyone is forced to be part of pk, but no one is forced to pk. ****, look at what happened to royals, absolved into a pk cabal. And you want a specific example of hardcore RP and hardcore PK, look at Narnokles a dark knight that was an absolute monster in pk, who through consistant rp joined herald. Did he choose to suddenly start rping? No, he maintained a consisant level of rp through his entire play time and was justly rewarded. It is a hell of a lot easier to indiscrimintly kill, but the options to maintain a very high level of rp while you maintain a very high level of pk exists, the sad fact is that too many players believe it's a choice, and you have admited to being one of them. Complaining on the boards doesn't fix the problem, lead by example in game and post your complaints where they belong, the prayer forum.

Now, telling me and Psycho that our rp is a cheap knockoff of real rp or it's shallow because we almost only use says and tells and use our skills over socials, well that's alright with me. I am damn certain Phsyco has many times over proved himself compared to what I've accomplished, and I know I have nothing to prove, I've already done it; I had a Vamp Savant Elder who was titled and held two owner only items and owned a house which is still found in game today, I had a titled, elders, knight who with lexicant(an elf ranger knight), maintained a wonderful intercabal fighting, I had my Illithid Necromancer turned neutral, studying to be good, without loss of spells, during that period I had a grand total of 3 qraces, 1 qclass, 2 cabaled elders, four owner only items, three personal titles, and that was all durning 1.0 when you declare rp at it's best, and all that was with says and emotes. But my bragging doesn't stop at 1.0, I had a T in all cabals during 2.0, I had my Undead Ranger, I had my Undead Necromancer, I had my quest accepted Sader Wannabe(never did the quest, rage delete), I had one of the first characters in Watcher when it opened, I had my Neutral Aligned Drow Dark Knight, titled with an owner only item, in Watcher who could cast almost all his spells, including malform, and oh yeah, I got asked to be an Imm. Guess what, all that with says and tells, minimal emotes.

Now, lets count: 5 qraces, 2 qclasses, 4 personal titles, 2 elders, 5 owner only items(not counting description rewards), 2 characters who turned align without punishment, and an Imm.

Now I will be the first to tell you all that my rp is not extrodinary, but that isn't the point, I am not trying to brag, what I am trying to get across is; Do you honestly think that a say/tell rp focus is a cheap nock off of an emote focus, or perhaps could it just be a different but equal way of doing it? No one says Michael Jordan is a better Athelete than Wayne Greztky, because they play two different sports, they achived the same fame in two different ways, but you can't really compare them. Now, I am not saying what I've done in fl is worthy of superstardom, but I earned what I got through hardwork in both pk and rp, and my rp style is vastly different than yours, but I refuse to believe it's any worse, or any better. Maybe a better analogy is different kinds of films or books; Some books are written in third person so you know everything, others are written in first person, so you only know what the character experiences... FL is first person, you can only know what your character experiences, for the imms it's third person. Or lets look at comedy, some people are prop comics, others are slapstick, others are just straight stand up, but they all make you laugh.

You rp how you want to rp, let others rp how they want to rp, neither is wrong, neither is better. And just because you see things one way(1st person remember) doesn't mean that's how it always is(3rd persons will almost asuridly tell you a different story).

WC