roma Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Just feel like I need to throw something out here. Please don't take it as a flame. Some things I say are going to come off that way. I'm not going to get into my own views with the issues people have been having with whatever. I think FL is heading down a dangerous path. Lately I've been seeing a lot of "Us vs. Them" mentalities. I think this is what lead to a dark time in the mud before the new staff took over. Valid and mature complaints fall on deaf ears. Players act like whiny little bitches. People bring up legit concerns and ideas and the threads turn into vile cesspools of internet drama like somebody flicked a lightswitch. I hope people take this post to heart and consider the way they act. FL is a community. We're all friends here, right? One more thing directed to the imms. Or anyone else who cares. I love you guys. I've RP'd with you a lot of you one on one and you're top-notch. You've put a hell of a lot of work during your own free time so others can play a game during their free time. It's a great selfless act and I give you all kinds of respect for it. But[ ] I think you're understaffed. Even before Malch and Krounoi took off I was wishing there were way more of you around. We need more coders and builders. Bugs that have been around since the crypticant wars are common knowlege and exploited or people have had to find screwy ways to get around them. Stock areas are still around. The same old quests are still around and people just go through the motions with them to get that master questor title. Some quests that make a player feel like they are actually inside a fantasy novel would be amazing. I know there are people here with the talent to make them. I'd love to see more imms taking control of mobs and just having fun RPing with players, helping characters grow naturally, and even teaching them about the lands and RP. Eshaine did this with me during a certain druid quest and I <3 her for it. Really made my night. I laughed the whole time and learned where some neato herbs were. Sorry I didn't stick that character out, Eshaine... In closing... I have no closer... I'm going to go get drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calron Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Umm....yeah, about that. Malch didn't leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roma Posted April 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Oh... Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fīv Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Decently said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I have to agree with most of it. Especially the first part. The second part, I agree with, too. I came to FL in mid 1.0, and you know what made me stay initially? Immortal interaction, and I think alot of people think the same way. Coders are great. Need em, love em. So are builders. But rp staff is where I think Fl needs more staff...more lvl 52 imms who do nothing but rp with morts. Control mobs, run contests! RUN KICKASS PLOTS!! There are the imms expect to rp, right? Imps and 59s generally are too busy which is understandable. Maybe there are more...I just added Kaauld to the site's list and took off Khaede and Thelsyome who I think are no longer here. Anithraril - Immortal - 55 Eshaine - Immortal - 55 Kaauld - DemiGod - ?? Raargant - DemiGod - 54 Wathok - DemiGod - 54 Can 5 people really run the entire rp spectrum of a mud? I really don't think so. I would say more around 20 would rock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 This 'us vs them' is not new. It's always existed. Everyone, the players and the staff, put an awful lot of time, and thus emotional investment into the game. And at some point the players then come to revelation that the time they have spent has equated out to; an payoff they don't really like, one they are indifferent to, or one they like. And those who don't like it, some seek to change it, and some just move on. The ones who seek to change it, some do it like an ***, others do it respectfully. For players, and some imms, playing the mud is like being in a bad relationship, you put everything of yourself into it, and you really only get enjoyment at those moments, but nothing to hold onto, and that really is scathing. For the admin of the mud, they reap the benifits because it is their mud, they pay for it, they do all the hard work. It's just the way things have, are, and will continue to be. WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiere Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 The main fun for me in FL lies in the challenge, and their always is one. I'm continually trying to beat everybody else and have fun rping, but the fact remains that I'm not even close. I.E. why should I care if Marty is overpowered? It ain't like he wouldn't beat the pants off me even if he wasn't a trib. And I wouldn't call myself a horrible player, I know a trick or two, if I do say so myself. Anyway, the thing I most agree with is the need for maybe not necessarily more imms, but more heroes, or something. More people to RP with the general playerbase. I think the current ones are doing a fine, upstanding job and would still be happy if nothing changed, it just so happens that it also is never bad to have more rp, especially realms wide rp. The main thing that I really, really feel strongly about is the actual game mechanics, which I think the staff is doing an awesome job with. I left AR because I felt they horrible messed it up-gimping everybody equally, as it were. I'd rather classes be brought up to par than reduced to par. That and they screwed up the training system. I LOVE FLs training method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomf Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Need more imm run quests and whatnot. Short small ones if possible, not a big one. People know that the imms work their asses off. But knowing something and being SHOWN through enjoyable interactions (not just coding) is quite different. In another mud, the imms are as immersed into the players through daily engagements as much as staying wizinvis. In fact, only the coders are basically wizinvis...others always still visible unless they are tracking a killer. There should probably be more interaction between deities and their followers. Make it so that followers need to pray at the shrines and interact with their chosen deities before they can level up beyond a certain point. Or heck, as in that other mud, make it so communers NEED to interact with their deities before they are able to commune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 If FL took on another 10-15 imms at lvl 52 for nothing but rp and running plots, the game would be so amazingly fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icor Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I agree. A larger staff will eventually amount to a larger playerbase. New areas brings "retired" players back faster, and immortal interaction with players helps drive the feeling of being in another world. I don't understand the trust threat with new immortals. That's why there are various levels for immortals to be at. Imms that aren't trusted as much are put at 52. They still have to work their way up from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Child Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 The problem is finding 10-15 people who are mature enough, skilled enough, willing to put in the time, trustworthy enough, to make them Imms. There is also the question of whether or not the Imms want that many more people cluttering up the wiz lines. And if people show they are capable of such responsibilities and take it upon themselves at a player level to do such things...who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 The problem is finding 10-15 people who are mature enough' date=' skilled enough, willing to put in the time, trustworthy enough, to make them Imms. There is also the question of whether or not the Imms want that many more people cluttering up the wiz lines. And if people show they are capable of such responsibilities and take it upon themselves at a player level to do such things...who knows?[/quote'] This is exactly correct. We are looking, as always, for people who have shown all these traits. Once we find them, we have a system to bring them in. We're not against new IMMs, it's people who will abuse their positions to get advantages we're against. (And even a 52 can gain huge PK advantages if they cheat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 There are plenty of people willing to be imms who are mature enough, smart enough and skilled enough to become so. I know -alot- of people over aim who have been trying to send imm apps for the past couple years. I know you all hate me right about now and because of recent posts I am probably the most hated person by the imms(well, thats not new), but I've sent half a dozen applications spaced a few months apart, along with asks what the requirements are, without response for a very long time. I agree with Icor. Do you realize how little power a lvl 52 imm has? Just make his wizinvis and control mobs. Not much bad he can do unless he is a -really- bad choice. Edit: You posted like...half a second before me. Yea, I can see how cheaters would be able to monopolize, but I think there are plenty of people who are trustworthy enough. You may all hate my guts, but I've never cheated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchaeius Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Where would all of those IMMs come from? It would cut our playerbase size in half. Trust me when I tell you that well thought out and valid complaints are considered. It is just that we have to consider a lot before we make moves to change things because one seemingly small change can completely throw off the balance of the MUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmm Coffee Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 If there isn't one already, create a 15-minute timer for when an IMM logs off and tries to log back on with a mortal character. That should take care of most cheating issues. Personally, I would love to be one of those "10 to 15" IMMs setting up RP plots and what-not. PK to me has become less about being an "aggressive beast" and more about being the "Oh, you want a piece of me?" type. I, along with a lot of the players here, have been mudding for clost to 10 years. Nowadays, I get an urge to play a char, roll it, rp it, cabal it, pk with it, and eventually get bored because of the aforementioned reasons. Then I typically take a 3-6 month break and come back for more of the same. However, mortal chars are limited in what they can do to change the perspective of other players. It's one thing to write a note as a mortal and RP your arse off. But, as most people know (especially my girlfriend), it's the little things that count. Imm-taking-over-mob interaction with players is fun! Creating personal items (as long as they're not overpowered) for a character doing a good job creates a unique experience for that player/character. Giving promotions in cabals like Raargant does (rewarding balls) instead of making the character log 200 hours or whatever the case may be. There are IMMs who I have interacted with who have been excellent and there are others that have been like pulling teeth to RP with. I don't know the qualifiers for becoming a lvl 55 IMM, but personally I feel some of them (really only 1-2 come to mind) should be replaced by more energetic, creative and outgoing personnel. Nobody is doubting the IMM staff's capability to create a fair (well, so long as you discount vamps in tribunal heh heh) environment for FL's playerbase. But yes, the overall RP has declined a few notches and I'm certain it has to do with staffing + time commitments. That's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchaeius Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I know -alot- of people over aim who have been trying to send imm apps for the past couple years. There is your problem right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icor Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 No, wait. See, I take that back now. Behrens is right. A 52 might not have the commands to crash the mud over and over (not that it would matter), but he/she can acquire information "unnaturally" and use that information with a mortal; or something along those lines. You'd be surprised how far people might go to exploit things for their own benefit. ...Which is why there's a level 51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I know -alot- of people over aim who have been trying to send imm apps for the past couple years. There is your problem right there. I was just about to post the same damn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Hippo Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I agree. A larger staff will eventually amount to a larger playerbase. New areas brings "retired" players back faster' date=' and immortal interaction with players helps drive the feeling of being in another world.[/quote'] (I quoted this cause i love how you quoted "RETIRED" I LAUGHED) I honestly try my best to get a bit of imm -> character interaction. Even when i'm all alone i try to rp with myself... hoping to get an imm rp! Which imho is the funnest times on FL! I agree wholeheartily with the thought of more imm. I realize that 20 would be a bit much of a imm gap due to the fact that max on is like 27 (7 players to interact with with 20 imms... hmmm). I think we should get about 3 more builders... 8 RP imms... and wing it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 If fl took another 10-15 imms then who would be playing the game? Think about what you are asking for. How many truely dedicated players are there? I mean the ones who are currently putting the time in, and doing so under your skewed opinions of rp? Now remove 10-15 of them and what do you get? Garbage, thats what you get. You get a playerbase of weekend warriors, and an imm base of people who want to play. Being an Imm sucks, being a low level imm sucks even more. I give nothing but amazing amounts of props to anyone who stays on staff for more than three months, and many more to the upper imms. Being an Imm is work, it's not play, the people that enjoy being an imm enjoy the work of it, because once you're up there, you get to see behind the smoke an mirrors and the game loses an awful lot of shine, and now you sing in you come in to play for every other person in game instead of comming in and playing for yourself. Why do you think the history of Imms have such a high turn about? Because they end up being cheats? Hell no, because its hard. And why does a person have to be an Imm to help with RP? Why couldn't those 10-15 players roleplay as mortals? Get into leader position in the cabals, and run the game that way? If their are 10-15 people who are capable enough to be an imm, then they are certainly capable of doing that. WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatMike Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 If fl took another 10-15 imms then who would be playing the game? Think about what you are asking for. How many truely dedicated players are there? I mean the ones who are currently putting the time in, and doing so under your skewed opinions of rp? Now remove 10-15 of them and what do you get? Garbage, thats what you get. You get a playerbase of weekend warriors, and an imm base of people who want to play. Being an Imm sucks, being a low level imm sucks even more. I give nothing but amazing amounts of props to anyone who stays on staff for more than three months, and many more to the upper imms. Being an Imm is work, it's not play, the people that enjoy being an imm enjoy the work of it, because once you're up there, you get to see behind the smoke an mirrors and the game loses an awful lot of shine, and now you sing in you come in to play for every other person in game instead of comming in and playing for yourself. Why do you think the history of Imms have such a high turn about? Because they end up being cheats? Hell no, because its hard. And why does a person have to be an Imm to help with RP? Why couldn't those 10-15 players roleplay as mortals? Get into leader position in the cabals, and run the game that way? If their are 10-15 people who are capable enough to be an imm, then they are certainly capable of doing that. WC I wish I had the words to put it like that but you hit the fricking nail on the head. I was lucky enough to staff here awhile way back in 1.0 and it did take alot from the game. I had to deal with asses and desc checks, name changes, people bugging me about cabal issues, complaints about this and that.....damn it sucked. I think I lasted maybe 6-8 months and you can ask my second ex-wife how fricking happy I was when they gave me the chance. Being an imm is not all it's cracked up to be I promise. P.S. And as you can tell from my PK prowess I didn't even cheat to get ahead and learn the things I could have learned. I didn't have time to cheat b/c I was so busy trying to deal with issues and still get something done with my knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmm Coffee Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 10-15 is a bit overstated. More like 2-4 would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 No, wait. See, I take that back now. Behrens is right. A 52 might not have the commands to crash the mud over and over (not that it would matter), but he/she can acquire information "unnaturally" and use that information with a mortal; or something along those lines. You'd be surprised how far people might go to exploit things for their own benefit. ...Which is why there's a level 51. I bet I could find you a dozen people who are responsible, trustworthy...and willing to be imms who will ALSO be will to quit playing mortals. Hell, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 2-4? No. 5 imm can't handle the rp of an entire mud... Member Fl's old essay/ad? With its headcoder Virigoth leading a staff of over 15! We need a staff around that size again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Well, I believe it is a rule that imms cut out all contact through aim. I'm sure most players would do just that, I also believe that most just don't believe they could be an imm so they don't even try. I stand in this boat. But it's a really good idea to have a group of imms just for rp sessions. Or to bring rp to players to keep them interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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