Syndicate/Merchant related questions

[f0xx]

I've been trying to understand Merchant for some time, and I still can not seem to.

First of all, what is the purpose of Merchant? I ask this because we currently have two decked merchants who basicly do everything else except what they are supposed to - trading wares. And one of them is an elder too.

Secondly, what I've gathered so far, Merchant is a subcabal of Syndicate. They have the same skills as Syndicate and some more on top of them. They can vote on applications, expulsions, vendettas, alliances and so on, but once the fighting with a real enemy begins, what are their responsibilities? Are they interfere in cabal fare? If not, then why are they allowed to vote on such matters at all?

And not just that.

A cabal can have a maximum of 9 members. For Syndicate that doesn't seem to be true, because that number uncludes Merchant members as well. So, if you have 4 merchants, you can't have more than 5 syndicates.

That seems a bit strange, especially if Merchants are supposed to stay away from Syndicate's vendettas.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Go kick their asses? I dunno.

[Anume]

Merchant is the official front of Syndicate, think like a coffee shop to cover up a mafia operation. They can't retrieve or take standards and are not involved in cabal wf.

As they are the front that are icly all honest and straightforeward, they do not belong to Syndicate "officially". As their cover they are of course part of the organization and thus can vote on cabal matters.

A merchant that does not trade anything will not be able to rise in the ranks from sheer game mechanics, so your assumption that they do not trade anything is not correct.

[F-3000]

do everything else except what they are supposed to - trading wares. And one of them is an elder too.

Could you elaborate?

Also...

they are supposed to - trading wares.

Wrong. Their possibilities/abilities do not limit only on trading wares.

They have the same skills as Syndicate and some more on top of them.

Wrong. They share some skills, but not even nearly all.

Plus, Syndicate benefits a lot from having Merchant as part of them. If you use your imagination, you can think of wide range about how.

[Dale]

Merchant is OP.

[f0xx]

Their possibilities/abilities do not limit only on trading wares.

Indeed. But that was the main reason for their creation. Currently, merchants trade nothing but outfit, herbs and army boosts. I don't know how many times I've tried to sell/buy things from them, things that I know they can easily sell for bigger price... they simply ignore me.

*shrug*

Plus, Syndicate benefits a lot from having Merchant as part of them. If you use your imagination, you can think of wide range about how.

We could argue a bit on that, especially on the point which I made earlier, that merchants eat from Syndicate's numbers but do not take active stance in it's vendettas.

For the moment, it just seems that Merchant acts very much like a leech.

Also, I am very very curious too how exactly does syndicate benefit from merchant?

[the_nightmare]

+1 for f0xx, merchants do not fight anyone, they are like heralds but most of the time decked.When I have asked one merchant what he has for sale he told me that he has one piece of item, when I looked at him he was decked to the teeth.

Merchant mechanic doesn't works properly.Not at all.Anume said the example of the cofee shop, but this is not exactly true.Let's say that the syndicates are the executors and the hired killers of the mafia, the merchants are the secretaries and the masterminds.Then why the heck a secretary and a mastermind need all the good guns when I, as an executor and a killer walk around wielding a bat?When you see a merchant decked to the teeth that fights mobs only 99% of the time and refuse to sell anything then something is just not right.

There is something else that has been bothering me, what is the point of having a merchant cabal at all?Seriously?Why I have to pay 30k for double plated leggings when I can just slay Kesrick and get them?There are some good things about them, merchant outfit, army outfit.This is all.You have taken the ability to place bounties from rares and uniques to improve the rare circulation but then you created the merchants to cripple it.What is the point?

[Anume]

Re Foxx: as to skills, some skills LOOK the same, but they are not (syndi gets the strong version, Merchant a rp related weaker one).

Re selling wares: what a Merchant sells is up to them. Perhaps your offer wasn't good enough. If a rare is around you can indeed get it from a mob, if not, you can buy it from a Merchant or not, if the price is too steep. A Merchant is just that, a trader who wants to make a profit. They are not required to run the factions all day long just to sell you something for a very cheap price they perhaps put 2 real life hours in getting.

Merchant outfit is better than the cabal outfit, so they are - also - here to even the field a bit for non-caballed people.

There are many chars who use their services on a regular basis, different Merchants will be played in a different way. If you really have any major issues with one, you can always try to get their Imm (=Brehan) to put the boot in.

And not sure if you mean that or not nightmare but eq bounties were taken out a while ago bc things kept getting lost in the bounty system (bounty char -> char stops playing, etc.). It was also not doing the rare circulation any good, nor were the bounties syndicate had to go after very good or even something the syndicate would need.

[jibber]

I remember when I, (as Rygsne) was a Merchant. I sold everything except the skin off my back. I was rarely decked. And I believe I did it very well. I think I netted over 30 Million at one point.. and everyone liked me. Heh.

[Brehan]

I honestly do not see the reason for a complaint here, I keep only three merchants at a time and six Syndicates. I think that evens it out a good bit as far as selling of services and having hunters around. If you do not feel there are enough hunters to fight a war you all voted to start then perhaps I will have to look into scalping members if they are not present after 4 or 5 days at a time. I have been waiting for and had began to scribe a scroll (unneeded now however) for us to start war with someone as many of you are getting to comfortable sitting around with nothing to do aside malforms. At this moment I see nothing that I wish to change with members of Merchant vs Syndicate ratio. As well any items a Merchant holds sells said item at their descretion, as Anume said make them an offer they cannot refuse and you may get what you want. And nightmare no one asked you to buy something you can gain yourself however there are other people out there that have a hard time finding say those leggings you mentioned and seek Merchant services.

[Djriacen]

I agree with the Imms on this one. Admittedly, I've not once bought an item from a Merchant but I have had various opportunities for great RP. see Rygsne or Skwizgarr (skwisgars don't wants to plays no mores!) I also believe that army outfit alone is worth having Merchant around. As to them being decked, think of it as sort of an advertisement technique, lol. "Hey.. wanna look like me? Pay me a ridiculous sum of gold!" It is, after all, the black market.

[F-3000]

I don't know how many times I've tried to sell/buy things from them' date=' things that I know they can easily sell for bigger price... they simply ignore me.[/quote']

If you attempt to profit from Merchant, you're doing something wrong.

Merchants got something to do most of the time, very often they have several business to handle at once (thanks to tell). If you go arguing with them about the prices they should pay to you, they'll most likely focus on the other business at hand.

As an example, I once sold Slimy breastplate with neat price, but when I was later asked about if I'd buy it back, the other person wasn't satisfied with the amount of much lower than half of paid price, and began arguing about prices. Why I wasn't going to pay any good sum for it? Here's merely three reasons: I had something better at the moment, slimy breastplate is freaking heavy to just keep in inventory, and I was already having max rares in inventory. I didn't continue with the arguing because I focused on other customers.

(as a side note, I don't consider haggling as arguing)

A hint: You'll get better gain if you sell a Merchant something he does not have, or he wants. As an example, if my merchant is wearing two rare bracers, and got another two rare bracers in inventory, of course you wont be getting a good price for the bracer you're offering! But if you see this merchant got non-rare headgear, or none at all, you'll certainly get better gain for that helmet you're offering. Just don't get greedy.

If you paid 500k coins for an item, in any cirumstances you should not expect to get anything near that sum back if you're trying to sell the item back - unless that item is something extremely sought after.

Also' date=' I am very very curious too how exactly does syndicate benefit from merchant?[/quote']

Syndicate get the services, or at least should get, with discount. And Syndis go at top of the queues of Merchants. Plus Merchant are the extra eye/ear, that people most likely do not concern about(?).

It was also not doing the rare circulation any good

I second that, but I'm not going to confess.

I sold everything except the skin off my back.

That's my character's philosophy as well, thus any comment saying that my character doesn't trade with wares is very close to horse poo.

[jibber]

Just commenting, my friend. Don't even know (nor expect you to tell) who you play. I've had nothing but good interactions with the Merchants.

[f0xx]

@F-3000: Way too defensive mate....

Anyway.

My thoughts were that, I sometimes get the feeling that some people go into merchant just so they can hoard wares and have a PK shield. That, combined with the fact that they are not allowed to take part in cabal warfare, that they refuse to trade the stuff they wear (or set incredibly high prices, which is basicly the same), that they refuse to buyout very rare stuff, or not rare but useful, just strengthens that feeling.

I will give you a small example - recently I had a backpack full of starstones. I offered to sell them for 1k a piece and I was ignored. I've done the same with practice weapons, rods of stars, glimmering staves, gatestones even hearts. The result was always the same.

Rygsne was a true example of a Merchant. Also, people should remember the ones who made that cabal come to live.

[edit]

I honestly do not see the reason for a complaint here' date=' I keep only three merchants at a time and six Syndicates.[/quote']

I honestly don't see a reason for merchants to count towards syndi's members.

I also find it funny that merchants can vote on matters which they are not obliged to follow and can expulse members but can not be couped.

It just looks too much like being uncaballed but with some pretty nice bonuses, and for all that you just have to sell some herbs/outfits/army boosts which come from your cabal skills actually and take 0 effort from you.

[Deykari]

Skwiz and Meerdus were an extremely valuable lifeline when I had Chakii. Nothing screamed surprise like getting me getting full-looted by an enemy cabal opponent only for them to come trying to take Syndicate standard to see me almost as decked again. There are other ways that Merchants can be 'exploited' too as a Syndicate if you want to get creative.

I don't see a problem with Merchants at all.

Dey

[Brehan]

Also saying that a Merchant has a pk safe flag is wrong, it is just in your best interests if you wish to conduct business with them not to attack them. If you do then expect to be bountied, killed from them defending themselves, or even if you are persistant, hunted and killed by said Merchant.

[P_body]

F0xx: From your example of wanting to sell stuff to the Merchants, it seems like you're trying to adopt a merchant rp yourself. Merchants aren't there to foster trade for you. If you wanna peddle, go peddle to the masses. I'm sure people would be happy to buy from you if you found the right person.

Frankly, if I was a merchant, I wouldn't give that kind of an offer the time of day either. You had a backpack full of starstone and wanted them at 1k per starstone? so like 10-20 starstone would net you 10-20k? I would probably just laugh and ignore such an offer too. Hearts may be more valuable, but still something just as easily gained alone, and not something worth buying and hoping to sell again later. Now if you were trying to sell a nimbus or a grasp, or ice armor, or a fullplate, or adamantite boots, or the shadow of velphane and they ignored you?..well..that's just bad for business.

[f0xx]

*sigh*

If you can buy something and then sell it 10 times more expensive then why not? That's actually the mentality I try to fight...

[P_body]

If you can buy something and then sell it 10 times more expensive then why not? That's actually the mentality I try to fight...

I will give you a small example - recently I had a backpack full of starstones. I offered to sell them for 1k a piece and I was ignored.

F0xx: I don’t know anyone foolish enough to buy a piece of starstone for 10,000 coins.

I’m pointing out here that if you were actually offering to sell something that they could legitimately turn around and sell for ten times their cost, sure. Maybe a little more viable -IF- the person wanted to run their merchant business that way and indulge you.

Now if you were selling starstone at 100 coin a piece, THAT might be more viable. Maybe..same with hearts etc. Sell a prac weapon for 1k, a merchant can turn around and sell for 10k and still beat the other alternatives for pricing.

But maybe my economics major is making me think too deeply about all of this as I begin to derive the isoquant for nymph hearts…I digress.

[mya]

F0xx, the Syndicate is an evil cabal.

If I was a syndicate and the merchants had bad will against me and fully decked I would kill them and take their armor (Imagining I could do it).

Syndicate > Merchants, they are pawns, not equals.

If your pawns don't show subservience just whack them.

And remember to keep extorting EQ out of them out of fear.

If only Knights were that simple.

[jibber]

Actually, I played my Merchant as the .. "Grandfather" of the mafia. The guy who never gets his hands dirty, but tells his lackeys what to do. Then again, it could be different now.. but in all honesty, the Merchant IMHO should always be greater than the Syndicate lackeys.. controlling the money and all..

[Imoutgoodbye]

Peeps be crazy.

[Aulian]

I feel that when Korthian put in motion the begining of this subcabal (and yes, a lot of the credit for its implementation must be to him) he did not have this in mind

Thats all Im gunna say.

[f0xx]

F0xx: I don’t know anyone foolish enough to buy a piece of starstone for 10' date='000 coins.[/quote']

Then you won't make a good merchant.

I honestly don't see why merchant had to be associated with syndicate to begin with. I think that narrows their RP. Not every merchant has to be "the face of the mafia".

I can understand the desire of that staff to hit two birds with 1 stone (to create a cabal focused on trade and another subcabal for syndi). It is a good idea indeed, but its execution seems to be lacking.

Also Mya, if you as syndicate try to kill a merchant, I am sure you will be severely punished by their IMM. Which also narrows RP and is another thing I don't agree with, but is a subject of another discussion... perhaps. Not to mention that the merchant can expulse you. Not like it hasn't happened in the past.

The point of the whole subcabal that MERCHANT is, is to be dedicated on profit, and unlike syndicate who's profit comes in different ways, be it the fear of the masses, influence and so on, merchant's profit comes in only 1 way - gold (or CP). When you have a character who is decked and sets incredibly high prices for his wares, with the sole purpose of not selling them and keeping them for himself, then what is the purpose of merchant?

[Balgashang]

I agree with Foxx to an extent, its kinda aggravating to be told everything is not for sale, I really don't think merchants should be allowed to issue bounties either, its like a herald hording rares but with the addition of the syndicate coming down on you for attacking one of 'thiers'.

I think having them participate in cabal warfare would even things up, then there's a 'good' reason for a merchant to remain decked. Granted they don't have a pk shield like a herald, from my experiances, they get attacked about as often as a herald.