The Wall Street tumbles!

[Imoutgoodbye]

Sweet. Watching the Wall Street figures plummet. Maybe those idiots in Washington won't argue like a bunch of women over what laundry detergent is best next time the debt crisis comes back up. I hope all those Tea Party Republicans realize what they're doing to themselves. Hell, I think the entire Congress has a record 82% disapproval rating from what I read last week.

Tax, tax, tax! I propose a flat tax, idealistically.

[Mali]

The following graph shows Valek's mean popularity score by month in 2011. As you can see, Valek's popularity was rising until he posted about the economy in August, at which point his popularity score dropped dramatically. Now, everyone is very disappointed in him. Will he be able to spring back from this, or will he have to sit alone at lunch forever? Stay tuned to find out.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Oh, see, that's so low because I haven't given a sermon in a while...thanks for reminding me.

[f0xx]

Noooooooooo, Not Another Sermon!!

[Imoutgoodbye]

Silence, heathen! You are baptized in the ways of Aabahran, by virtue of the Inferno of the God's Forges! You will revel in all the Glory! Brother Foxx, join us, and we shall bring in more converts than ever before.

LET THE CHURCH OF AABAHRAN GROW STRONG!

*runs off yelling for Bregalad to get that damn camcorder*

[Bimpni]

Legalize prostituiton and marijuana, quit raising the national debt limit, and stop printing more money. We can't pay the interest on the loans we have out now, its stupid to get more and more in debt. Printing more money just leads to inflation.

Also America needs to work on its exports, we import alot of crap.

Marijuana for one is a relatively harmless drug. Its also a hell of alot better for people then this recent craze of 'herbal incense' that has peoples lungs bleeding.

As for prostitution, I'm thinking pre WWII germany with health cards and at least one check up a week. Most states have some sort of a military institution, or reserve/national guard units nearby. They have people trained in the medical fields all over, use them to issue the check ups, since they're already getting paid.

[Raargant]

Good time to buy stocks if you have some free cash. I just went in for about ten grand or so.

[f0xx]

Hope it works out for you Raar...

[inscribed]

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/balanced-budget-plan

This is all we need to fix our economy, from our friends at the Cato Institute.

[Imoutgoodbye]

What Raar said...I'm putting in some money probably in October if it stays low.

EDIT: I'm counting on it staying low probably thru December, with a few upswings here and there.

[Bimpni]

I think silver is a good investment right now, read its tradtionally 1/16th of gold, gold is 1600 an ounce, silver was 39 an ounce couple of days ago, which has about doubled in the past 2-3 months.

[KRins]

You'll never pass a flat tax in this country. We aren't communist, there isn't an even close to equal distribution of wealth... as such a percentage bracketed tax will be the only effective and fair method. We just need to stop handing out tax breaks to companies and the insanely rich and redistribute those to the single mother of 2 barely scraping by or the disabled war vet instead of Ted Turner and the other multi-million or billionaires.

[Bimpni]

I thought that way too for a long time krins, but after looking into things a bit more, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, its a major reason why companies are going overseas to open up factories. Japan has the worlds highest, but thier prime minister was talking about lowering it 15 %, which would put us at the number one spot for taxing big business.

www.endofamerica63.com saw the commercial, watched it, it was interesting. I also looked up some of the information presented in the video, and its supported by other sources. I'm not economist by any means, but still, its a few interesting points made.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Keep an eye on Michigan. Our governor gave HUGE tax breaks to corporations (over $1 Billion) mostly paid for by cuts to government services, taxes on the elderly, taxes on the poor, taking away tax breaks for the poor.

Let's see what happens when these corporations are given their tax breaks. I'm willing to bet they line their pockets and create some minimum wage jobs, maybe a few decent jobs, but mostly just minimum wage jobs.

[Mali]

Preliminary reports indicate that Valek's popularity may be on the rise again for the second quarter of august.

[inscribed]

You'll never pass a flat tax in this country. We aren't communist' date=' there isn't an even close to equal distribution of wealth... as such a percentage bracketed tax will be the only effective and fair method. We just need to stop handing out tax breaks to companies and the insanely rich and redistribute those to the single mother of 2 barely scraping by or the disabled war vet instead of Ted Turner and the other multi-million or billionaires.[/quote']

wealth redistribution... what better way to encourage innovation and hard work, than to reward the successful by forcing them to pay for the faults of the weak and lazy.

[KRins]

wealth redistribution... what better way to encourage innovation and hard work' date=' than to reward the successful by forcing them to pay for the faults of the weak and lazy. [/quote']

There is a tremendous difference between being lazy or economically weak and having a terrible hand of cards dealt to you. If you are spending all day in a traphouse smoking meth, then I have no sympathy for you. If you are a single mom, work two jobs, rush home to tuck your children in so you can see them awake for 10 seconds, pass out from sheer exhaustion, then repeat it all again the next day... only to look at owner of the corporation you grind away endlessly for enjoying a fat tax break... then that's 1000% ****ed. If you can't see it, you are completely without empathy and make sweeping judgments regarding large quantities of people you know nothing about... oh wait, that describes you perfectly...

[inscribed]

its not a matter of empathy, its a matter of taking responsibility for your decisions and actions in life, and not expecting the government to forcibly take money from others just to bail you out.

[Mali]

[Bimpni]

well, redistribution of wealth i thought was one of the primary points of communism, which works great in theory, but then pesky human nature interferes

[Demiterracotta]

its not a matter of empathy' date=' its a matter of taking responsibility for your decisions and actions in life, and not expecting the government to forcibly take money from others just to bail you out. [/quote']

I love this, cracks me the hell up.

Let me guess, you love reaganomics?

Rich people create jobs?

And it's homeless peoples fault for being homeless....

Also, all residents of the inner city are deserving of their lot in life. Projects were put there for people who don't DESERVE to be anywhere else?

Give me a damned break. Candyland is for fourth graders.

Note: Hiking taxes for the rich and giving a small tax break to the poor has NOTHING to do with bailing people out. Just so you can get FACTS right, the LARGEST check ever written by the federal government went to these corporations that 'create jobs' lol. Oh, and yeah, my life would be fine if they had failed.

[Pali]

I thought that way too for a long time krins' date=' but after looking into things a bit more, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world[/quote']

Technically true, but it ignores the massive number of loopholes in the tax code that corporations are able to take advantage of - while our tax rate for them is 35%, in reality they pay a lot closer to 25% (with those in some fields able to get it much, much lower due to subsidies and various tax breaks - note that GE not only paid no taxes last year, but actually received money from the govt.), which is pretty much in line with other industrialized nations. As a percentage of GDP, our corporate tax income is actually the second lowest among industrialized countries.

You can also note this in that corporate profits across the country are at record levels, as is wealth inequality - the problem is that they see little incentive to invest this money in new jobs, as consumer spending has flagged due to the recession and government spending is being cut due to budget/debt fears (it's worth noting that when FDR did the same in '37, with the same goal of budget balancing, the economic recovery that was under way reversed course).

Inscribed, you sound like a subscriber to Social Darwinism.

[kaboomer]

@Bimpni - Check out www.dailypaul.com

Success is never anything to be ashamed of, nor is wealth, power, or the drive to continue to thrive.

An odd, slightly disconcerting reality:

As a public school teacher, age 25, I make ~35k/year. Like most single Americans with no children in my tax bracket, I lose roughly 30% to taxes. A student's parent (and I do emphasize 'parent', as there is no father figure), pulls ~25k/year as someone who is unemployed, has been for over two years, and confided in me that she doesn't intend on seeking another job. Although I have genuine care for this women and her three children by two different fathers, a piece of me is bothered by someone who works (occupationally) incalculably less and makes about 70% of my income.

There are of course countless arguments about why I shouldn't be bothered, arguments ranging from the spiritual to the economical. Can you imagine how difficult it must be to raise three children alone with only 25k/year? As a Christian, should you not give as you would to Jesus (Matthew: 25:31-46)? Would not the very education system for which you work be to blame for her predicament? You're just beginning your career; you'll be making much more in a few years! Etc...

These are all valid points, and all have an apt and equally sharp response and reasoning. It's all cyclical, circular logic, and none of it comes to a clear, concise conclusion.

However, I believe there is some eternal truth to this matter: it is the responsibility of the individual to forge his or her own prosperity or lack thereof. Also, it is not the government's purpose nor right to seize such prosperity and give it to those who most certainly did not earn it. Charitable acts should be directed by one's own free will.

Edit: "I lose roughly %30 to taxes." I think 'lose' is not the perfect word choice, but I can't think of one that fits the 'bill.'

[Pali]

However' date=' I believe there is some eternal truth to this matter: it is the responsibility of the individual to forge his or her own prosperity or lack thereof. Also, it is not the government's purpose nor right to seize such prosperity and give it to those who most certainly did not earn it. Charitable acts should be directed by one's own free will.[/quote']

Is it the responsibility of her children that they were born to crappy parents, in a society where they will likely grow-up in a poverty-stricken neighborhood with little discipline and a thuggish culture?

A lot of the usual talk about "personal responsibility" commits the error, I think, of ignoring a great deal of what we know about human psychology and development. We are not free agents floating around in a world that has no impact on who we are. Our genetics, which we have no control over at all, combined with the circumstances of our upbringing, which we again have no control over, shape the people we become. In all the talk about how our public educational system is supposedly so bad, the simple fact that it works just fine in suburbs and other affluent areas and works badly in more impoverished and crime-ridden areas often escapes the discourse completely. There are self-perpetuating cycles at play in many of these places, but they are very often ignored, to the detriment of all of us - not just those caught within them.

Personally, I think it IS government's place to work to see that its citizens aren't horribly screwed over by their circumstances. Unfortunately, we're very bad at doing so - partly through inefficiency, but largely because so many of us actually don't give a damn about helping other people.

[kaboomer]

@Pali: Yes, it is the government's responsibility to provide a means through which our impoverished can succeed. The most powerful and compelling method, to me, is public education, which is why I have chosen that path - it is the greatest weapon of social justice available. Unfortunately, due to a list of reasons that seems to outnumber the stars, the public school system is failing many, many individuals. I could go on for days about this topic, in both isolated and global contexts.

Of course, Pali, it is not the fault of the children to grow up in such horrible circumstances. The challenges before them are seemingly insurmountable, and certainly innumerable (check out Ruby Payne's A Framework for Understanding Poverty for more details). They do deserve a fair shake at life, which is where public school ought to play a large part. Obviously, we know that their challenges extend well beyond the classroom, and indeed, they are almost doomed to fail in a school system set up for the economy of the 1950's. However, anecdotes of resilience are evidenced in our daily lives all the time. (I do admit the anecdotes of failure are far greater in number). In summation, yes, life has dealt them a bad hand. My question then is whether it is the right course of action to allow the government take from those who have been given a more prosperous hand.

Is it a sin to be privileged? Most certainly not. Is it a sin to be selfish? Most likely. But, you've said yourself that the government is horrible at ensuring social equity (different than 'equality'). This is where compassionate Americans who resist taxation for the benefit for the poor feel disgruntled. I would rather give less to the inefficient government and more to my church, which is very, very good at ensuring that charity receives maximum benefit for those who need it. I think you're right about many Americans not really giving a damn. Although I do not agree with them and would direct them in a far different direction, I must respect their free will to not give a damn.

I know I'm a bit long-winded, so I think end this rant with an apt apothegm:

"If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain." - Winston Churchill