The Wall Street tumbles!

[Imoutgoodbye]

As you said, Kaboomer, the public education system has failed kids. In numerous ways. Number one being it doesn't prepare them properly for college. I was lucky enough to attend a school that did. As for Ruby Payne, I'm familiar with it to a certain degree, however, I tend to disagree with her in some ways, especially since -I- did overcome the odds despite holding so many risk factor cards. I blame my success on He-Man, GI Joe, Thundercats, and Hulk Hogan.

All joking aside, the public schools will continue to fail as they are tied too closely to government monetarily, but bend knee to the societies in which they exist.

[kaboomer]

I agree with you about Payne. She brings up a lot of good points about the threats of poverty, but she paints them almost as a doomed fate. I too have overcome poverty. I also used to be quite an anti-corporation, anti-wealthy radical liberal. Then I grew up and began to understand the value of human competence, the right to individual choice in charity, and dark side of the other half of the coin of 'government assistance,' which is rampant abuse.

Also, regarding schools, they tend to fail impoverished students for reasons that go far beyond college preparation. Partly due to a failing industrial system that outsources jobs (good for profit, bad for American workers), students are pushed toward 4-year universities which specialize in liberal arts and tend to result in jobs that perpetuate information rather than creation and manufacturing of goods (if you're lucky). From my experience, particularly working in public schools, most humans don't respond to or desire this type of education. Many humans prefer hands on activities and lessons, particularly one that ends in the creation of a good. Because this is a dying profession, and our education system is one that prepares for liberal arts, lots of students don't experience success or see any value or relevance in school. There are a lot of ways to revamp the system to make it more applicable to today's needs. However, this will involve a lot of political changes (might as well watch paint dry) and social paradigm shifts regarding the perception of careers (even harder).

Beyond that, you'll have to have Americans producing things again. Profit margins don't like that due to huge salary demands and union power. This leads profit-seeking companies (what companies are supposed to do) to seek oversees labor. What's the answer? Not sure. All you can do, if you are truly interested in change, is to find a way to serve the public, change the system for the better, and make an individual living at the same time.

I guess I'm lucky, even though I was dealt a "bad hand."

[Pali]

However' date=' anecdotes of resilience are evidenced in our daily lives all the time. (I do admit the anecdotes of failure are far greater in number).[/quote']

Societies A and B both produce successes and failures - but society A produces failures at a far greater rate. Society A also has far, far less wealth available for use than Society B, largely because the overall system that both societies exist in is set up in a way to benefit the members of Society B more. I think the overall system needs to be changed so as to not favor Society B the way it does.

In summation, yes, life has dealt them a bad hand. My question then is whether it is the right course of action to allow the government take from those who have been given a more prosperous hand.

It depends on how much one values social fairness compared to personal ownership. Frankly, I find the human obsession with owning things rather pathetic.

Seriously... 400 people in this country own more than 150 million. This is not something we should be pointing at and saying "Look how well those 400 did! We should try to be like them!" This is something we should be pointing at and saying "Something is manifestly unfair with a system that produces these results."

But, you've said yourself that the government is horrible at ensuring social equity (different than 'equality').

That doesn't necessarily mean that it is incapable of doing it better - the problem here is that there are plenty of people who don't want it to do any better and are happy to sabotage its attempts to do so. (P.S. And I view financial equity and social equality to be far more linked than most people do - edit: particularly with how much money controls politics.)

And those people who don't give a damn are, in my personal opinion, short-sighted idiots who don't realize that THEY are better off in the long run if everyone is better off in the long run.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Kaboomer, as a student of education (despite being 4 years older than you, I have just begun college as of last year), I will promote to you, as the English major I am, that there is little wrong with liberal arts and philosophy. Hands on education may be the best way for some people to learn. I would submit to you Gardner's Multiple Intelligences theory and say that it is our job as educator's to not lead students, but to work with them to help them learn the best way they can.

I know I'm idealistic in my summations that there are no failures among students, but we owe the kids more than "Goods must be produced". We need to help them shape the world in a way that they can get beyond that. Not just fit into the world, but learn how to own and share the world.

[Kazimer]

You do realize that you are a product of the equalization and restribution of wealth just by the fact that you work in a "public" school system... That the current bent toward no new taxes leads more and more districts to try and raise property taxes to continue to fund their schools??? A tax which is as regressive and punitive to fixed income individuals as any ever devised...

If people were to follow the "let them eat cake" attitude, a public school system that would never exist as it does today... There are examples of "for the good of the people" all around us that many take for granted every day... The roads we drive on, the fact that the food we eat is the safest in the world, and even the ability for a person to visit a pristine wilderness within his own state are all products of a government that works to some extent... Unfortunately the radicals (in both directions) have chosen to bury their heads within their own ideology and pretend that light rushing towards them is not the inevitable collapse of an economy with too much debt and too many years of self serving piggishness under its belt...

But that is just me... You youngins need to get your *** to work so I can hope to one day enjoy my wonderful social security benefits before they all run out...

edited for quotes

[jibber]

Never seen so many JACKASSES in one place before.

Get it? Jackasses?

Yeah. I crack myself up sometimes.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I don't identify with either party. I've been clumped in with Republicans (Fat Elephants that can't remember how to forget what they should) and Democrats (neighing donkeys who wouldn't know what a three party system looked like).

I, however, see myself as more of a Marxist.

However, we Yankees do not have to take any crap from those South of the Mason-Dixon line...we will come back down there if we have to.

[Mindflayer]

stock market is poop right now, worst it's been in years.. if you can get in cheap now, you might be a success story. Chances are you'll fail. Good luck!

[Imoutgoodbye]

Well, if you all want, I can peruse some investment opportunities and look at potential future growth. But like any good economist won't tell you, I have my tarot cards next to my computer.

[Mindflayer]

but I WILL tell you, you'll NEED tarot cards to be successful, good night sir

[inscribed]

I love this, cracks me the hell up.

Let me guess, you love reaganomics?

if by reaganomics you mean a an economic policy of no new taxes, government regulation reduction, and federal spending reduction, then yes, i do love me some reaganomics. the rest of your post seemed to be a variety of strawmen mixed with randomly strewn together words, possibly english in nature, so i won't bother responding to it.

it really is not that difficult to get the US out of this economic trouble, but let's face it, politicians are idiots and would rather dance around on tv than do their job.

here is what i don't get. first, let's list some facts:

1) politicians are idiots.

2) the kind of people who become politicians were not exactly the smartest and brightest kids in school. in fact, they were usually in the classes for dumb kids.

3) politicians are showboaters, and despite what they say on tv, are in reality only interested in themselves and their personal wealth/power, regardless of party lines.

4) government is wasteful, inefficient, and loses more and more accountability the bigger it becomes. in fact, i would not trust a government body to adequately design a see-saw, much less create a budget or (heaven forbird!) handle my medical care.

with those facts listed, why do certain voters continue to want the federal government to run more and more parts of their lives? exactly how big do you believe the government should be? how much of your income do you want the government to take from you to pay for all of this? or is it just that you believe some mythical secret society of billionaires should pay for everything? any reasonable person would look at the above facts and decide to have as little to do with government programs and services as possible, and would want as little of their money going to fund it as possible. of course, this implies that most voters are capable of reason.

/ramble

[Kyzarius]

all of these "remove government" comments are easy to say when you are not reliant on, or do not understand, social programs (medicare, medicaid, planned parenthood etc etc) and what they do for our society.

The same comments also can only be held up if you have no clear concept of government regulation and how it keeps that steak you like in the store being from a cow and not from a rabid dog.

Reagen, BTW, raised taxes more than any other republican president in recent decades.

[Grim_Reefer]

Good time to buy stocks if you have some free cash. I just went in for about ten grand or so.

Right there with you.

[Mali]

[Kyzarius]

lol, Mali, I promote you to "MASTER TROLL" your wit, skill, and tasteful artwork insights emotional rage and cynical cackle alike!

[Aulian]

I think silver is a good investment right now' date=' read its tradtionally 1/16th of gold, gold is 1600 an ounce, silver was 39 an ounce couple of days ago, which has about doubled in the past 2-3 months.[/quote']

Smart man, but you missed the boat. I bought 200k NZD of gold about a year ago when it was at 1100 USD

[Bimpni]

yea I did miss the boat, and will continue to do so until I get me some government handouts...I mean, more income :shifty eyes:

[Grim_Reefer]

Well, I'm rich now.

[Kyzarius]

Well' date=' I'm rich now.[/quote']

yeah, talk about catching a bus to $$$ville.