Twinblades713 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Just as a for instance in my little world: I am working 6 days a week, because nobody will come get the SEVERAL positions we are trying to provide to people. I wouldn't mind having more staff here to work so that I could actually get some time OFF work. The job requires no college education (Though obviously with any job, it looks better for you.) and consists of doing things you should know how to do normally in your every day life. Foster care is not a difficult job, but people leave our interviews because they're looking for lazy jobs. (Sit around and take care of old people that can't move or are so handicapped that they require very little upkeep.) This isn't a generalization for everything, but if it's a sample of a larger population, I tend to lean towards laziness being MORE of a key factor to unemployment. Look at it this way: I think there would be a greater effect on the unemployment issue if, hypothetically, everyone in the nation had a GREAT work ethic, as opposed to, also hypothetically, if there was one job for every person in the nation. If everyone had a great work ethic, the unemployment line would naturally cease to exist. But if everyone, as the country is now, had the opportunity to take that one job.... who would we have to go in the unemployment line? Free money is free money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag08 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 ^^^^^F A T^^^^^C A T^^^^^ Let me get this straight TB. Paying people NOT to work is not the best way to entice people to find work??? Huh....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I can give personal examples of the exact opposite Twin, like my friend who spent several months unemployed and was ecstatic when he finally got a temporary job as an apple-picker, which is why such anecdotes are a horrible metric for judgment in most situations. And "make your own job" I view as nearly as empty a piece of advice as "find a job" - many people are simply not in a situation that would allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 You're right. Pouting is the best way. Or chilling with unemployment. I just don't buy that there's no way to make it happen. If you truly believe that, then you're settling for becoming a victim. I worked manual labor until I saved enough to invest in a bigger project which I've made a reality. I was given literally nothing. I grew up in a mobile home with one parent. I know you guys don't care about me, but it's a direct scenario that anyone could achieve with the right mindset. KRins flew across the U.S. for a job. Do you know why? Because he wanted to work, and was willing to make an effort to do it. Do you know what's free? Networking. The more people you talk to, the more likely you are directly going to find something along the lines of what you're looking for. It might not always come how you planned, but it could land you an internship, or tutoring. Point is, anyone can say whatever they want... but if you want a job I'd like to quote one of my favorite minds: Don't talk about it. Be about it. Or... you know... complain till someone takes care of it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I can give personal examples of the exact opposite Twin, like my friend who spent several months unemployed and was ecstatic when he finally got a temporary job as an apple-picker, which is why such anecdotes are a horrible metric for judgment in most situations. And "make your own job" I view as nearly as empty a piece of advice as "find a job" - many people are simply not in a situation that would allow this. I don't get the logic here. I've provided an example, a template for success. You've provided as a counter-anecdote of someone who failed... or at least did until he got a job someone else provided to him as an apple picker, because they probably did something along the lines of put together a farm, that grew enough apples to need employees to pick. Your example isn't a counter, it's the "what will happen if you don't do as Twin says." Which I find to be a useful factor in dissuading someone to wait for a job to come to them. If personal anecdotes are a terrible metric for judgment, then what do you have? If I want to know how to do something, I look it up however I can. The way I usually find the answer is because someone else did it first. How about this, if someone comes to you with an issue of unemployment, send them my info. I have answers. Or if we're busy being against me, send them to Samag. He has answers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 NSFW The Wisdom of George Carlin. Also, I want a new system. I don't like capitalism. I don't like it. Period. Twin, if I could come work for you, I would do so happily. However, I don't think you'd pay me enough to uproot my family and come all the way there. I'm doing something. I'm doing something for me AND I'm going to do something for everyone else. I'm going to fight to provide a quality education and I'm going to fight for change. And I will step all over everyone else's beliefs if I have to to show just how much of an illusion the American Dream really is. These discussions don't begin to scratch the surface. What we're doing is looking at case by case by case. It's always going to be different. Everyone wants a certain set of rules, guidelines, that can be applied to everyone. Everyone wants that IF factor. I have news. You can't blanket the concept. You can't go on a case by case basis. You can't have the IF factors. There is a LARGE divide that is not going to get crossed here because everyone is stuck in self-reflexivity. I say critical thinking and it's going to be seen from a multitude of frames of reference. We could break this down into dichotomies over and over and over. The fact remains it's where you are. And where are you? I'm firmly with the 99%. So, our nation is breaking. Financially and socially. How about the "rich" go ahead and pay off that national debt over time? I mean, it's already been said, they're always going to be better off. They'll always bounce back with another 50k. Let them do that. The rest of the people will always be poor. What's the worry there if the financial gap closes? Okay, it's all rhetorical. Why? Economics is 99% theory. I like that number. 99%. Do you like that number, Pali? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Valek is going to be the crazy old guy living on top of the mountain standing naked with his pet chicken and yelling at the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Valek is going to be the crazy old guy living on top of the mountain standing naked with his pet chicken and yelling at the moon. Thanks for my new sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yes, Twin - you worked and saved up. The first part is what is lacking here - opportunities for work. You gave an example of people unemployed through laziness - I gave an example of someone who worked his butt off trying to find a job and barely managing to (a temporary job he bikes 45 miles to and will end in the next couple of weeks due to winter coming). The point I am trying to make here is that there are greater societal and economic factors at play when it comes to the causes of high unemployment in this country than simply individual mindset. I do not disagree that there are plenty of people who are unemployed by their own fault, but there are also plenty of hard-working people who have lost their jobs or just graduated from college that are unable to find new income sources despite their efforts. Treating these groups of people as identical is a mistake that does nothing to address the larger issues at play. And if moving across the country is the new baseline for what someone should be expected to do to find basic employment, then we're doing far worse than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 And if moving across the country is the new baseline for what someone should be expected to do to find basic employment, then we're doing far worse than I thought. I'm not sure who said it was. I do not disagree that there are plenty of people who are unemployed by their own fault' date=' [/quote'] I'll take it. The people who actually have degrees out of college and those who got laid off, (Yes I did read the rest of your post) I feel for them, and those are the people who usually get down, but are never out. The groups you mentioned are not identical, that is of course true. But the ones who had 'just a stroke of bad luck' usually don't have it for long, because they actually do things to get out of the hole. I don't condemn someone who is on their way but not there yet. I condemn the ones that want to complain for what they haven't worked for. The two groups of people you just outlined are the distinct difference. So we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Valek is going to be the crazy old guy living on top of the mountain standing naked with his pet chicken and yelling at the moon. OMFG! That's hilarious! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Except that in the current economy, Twin, plenty of those people actually ARE there for long... Or they end up in low-paying jobs that they are vastly overqualified for and are nowhere near worth the investments they've already made in their education or other aspects of their lives (let us remember that people are not worker ants - we need more than just a job to do ). And you may not have intended it, but mentioning someone who flew across the country for a job during a discussion like this has a way of implying that other people should be willing to do the same. I'm glad you don't see it that way, but I would recommend against giving such specific examples for that reason. Also, I'm with Valek - I do not like capitalism. It's an economic system that requires a percentage of the population to be getting screwed over by the rest. We have got to be able to do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Also, I'm with Valek Wait! Are you my pet chicken, the mountain, or the moon? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 We can spend our lives letting the world tell us who we are. Sane or insane. Saints or sex addicts. Heros or victims. Letting history tell us how good or bad we are. Letting our past decide our future. Or we can decide for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 We can spend our lives letting the world tell us who we are. Sane or insane. Saints or sex addicts. Heros or victims. Letting history tell us how good or bad we are. Letting our past decide our future. Or we can decide for ourselves. Finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there. The people that are unemployed right now got there due only to their own choices in life, not anyone else's and not because "capitalism is bad". Its up to them to man up and get themselves back on track. Making excuses and blaming Wall Street isn't doing it though. Are you my pet chicken' date=' the mountain, or the moon? :confused:[/quote'] Valek, here you go. I am not sure where you want Pali to fit into that but certain laws may apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Are you my pet chicken' date=' the mountain, or the moon? :confused:[/quote'] Oh, I'm the moon, baby. Inscribed, I will throw out in response: you're fractally wrong. Regardless, I think this thread has run its course. Kudos to everyone involved for keeping it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Indeed. It was fun. Especially inscribed adding a Legend of the Seeker reference. Kudos on the synthesis. I suppose I should get out of the present and keep working on this history mid term so I can get some sleep tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 ...I didn't even notice that link at first. Damn am I glad I picked moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 ...I didn't even notice that link at first. Damn am I glad I picked moon. You can be the moon. I'm quite flattered to be compared to a Wizard of the First Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Maybe it's our job to invent something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Maybe it's our job to invent something better. That's awesome. Where does it come from? I knew the last part, but I don't know who or where to attribute it. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Choke by Chuck Palahniuk. This is my favorite one from the book though: Milking cows, churning butter, for sure you know milkmaids must give great hand jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 You can be the moon. I'm quite flattered to be compared to a Wizard of the First Order. I randomly picked up the nickname "The Wizard" at the store I work at - three disconnected groups of people in the neighborhood adopted it within weeks of each other one summer when I grew my beard out long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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