The Forsaken Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Cabal skills aside. Erana. Just talking straight class vs class. And Pali, I've found that most of all of the time, BLMs have a MUCH higher output in melee than a paladin ever will. Even with mithril sabre/ember. Blademasters can blind you and disarm it fairly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you stick around after they blind you long enough for them to disarm you, that is your fault. Don't do it. Hit and run, attrition them down - just like you do to every other melee. Yes, they outmelee a paladin - just like other melees outmelee a paladin. The tactics aren't that different. And the sabre/ember is to frustrate through blinding and set up for a charge - not to outfight. I'd stick to a cursed polearm (or staff if you happen to have one) for the best melee against a blm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 flamestrike? Dispel evil? They can only predicte one spell at a time. Even if they're neutral...dispel evil should get you in the door' date=' without eating a counter.[/quote'] Hehe. You can't predict (spell kill) communing spells. You don't need to predict a spell to counter it at the start. If you wield a polearm, you will counter (snakespeed) every opening spell, no matter casted or communed, unless it is an area spell. So, to sum it up, flamestrike and dispel evil are not a good advise, because they will still be countered. The forsaken is right, there is no real effective way to engage a blademaster, unless he is dual wielding or blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Wooo! It's good to be right once in a while! Even though I had the wrong skill name. I've never played a blm to be honest. Can't even tell you the majority of their skills. I just know my paladins can't open vs one period without taking damage considering just class skills. This leaves the blademaster actually winning any attrition. Sure, paladin can heal, but a blademaster can just sit, or meditate, or whatever, knowing that the paladin will never be able to open with any damage. All they have to do is flee and rest/meditate/whatever some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 And the blademaster isn't doing anything to the paladin during that time either. Leaving a stalemate - unless the blademaster is willing to play things on the paladin's terms. Also, the snakespeed damage from opening with a flamestrike is pretty minimal - I found it quite easy to soak that to get the blm into combat if I needed them to be. Don't get me wrong - if both parties play things cautiously, the result is a stalemate (as is always the result when both sides are playing cautiously in a matchup where neither can effectively lag the other). But over the long run, when one side needs to win, the paladin has the edge. For instance, the paladin can much more easily spend time attacking the blm's cabal guard and can much more easily heal up damage from doing so than a blm can while attacking the paladin's cabal guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Wooo! It's good to be right once in a while! Even though I had the wrong skill name. I've never played a blm to be honest. Can't even tell you the majority of their skills. I just know my paladins can't open vs one period without taking damage considering just class skills. This leaves the blademaster actually winning any attrition. Sure' date=' paladin can heal, but a blademaster can just sit, or meditate, or whatever, knowing that the paladin will never be able to open with any damage. All they have to do is flee and rest/meditate/whatever some more.[/quote'] I've complained about that as well. All kinds of counters (except predict) should have timers, just as charge, if not longer, against PCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 And the blademaster isn't doing anything to the paladin during that time either. Leaving a stalemate - unless the blademaster is willing to play things on the paladin's terms. Also, the snakespeed damage from opening with a flamestrike is pretty minimal - I found it quite easy to soak that to get the blm into combat if I needed them to be. Don't get me wrong - if both parties play things cautiously, the result is a stalemate (as is always the result when both sides are playing cautiously in a matchup where neither can effectively lag the other). By stalemate you mean the paladin running away? Blademasters can open with their criticals without being countered. And depending on anatomy masteries I'm pretty sure a blademaster can lag a paladin. The only way for a paladin to lag a blademaster is to open with charge, take a double counter, and lag the blademaster for one round of which he most likely won't even hit them in melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibber Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've never had much of a problem fighting BLMS as a Paladin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Then I either suck at paladins (quite possible) or you guys are fighting newbie blademasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSeeU Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Wow, still talking about this? Sorry I sparked such an interesting debate. Maybe next time I will say that I never loose to ogre warriors with my gnome warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibber Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Then I either suck at paladins (quite possible) or you guys are fighting newbie blademasters. I find playing paladins to be a helluva lot of fun. I've fought some pretty big characters (giant warriors, blademasters etc) with my paladins. I've never really had a big problem.. except perhaps titan-sized bashing warriors (which I can usually get away from). Definitely not newbie blademasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizz Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=11529&page=7 My talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 By stalemate you mean the paladin running away? Blademasters can open with their criticals without being countered. And depending on anatomy masteries I'm pretty sure a blademaster can lag a paladin. The only way for a paladin to lag a blademaster is to open with charge' date=' take a double counter, and lag the blademaster for one round of which he most likely won't even hit them in melee.[/quote'] If the blademaster opens with a critical, you've got two rounds of a blademaster stuck in the fight for you to start wearing down (again, that a blm outmelees a paladin during normal fighting is about as relevant as the fact that a warrior outmelees a paladin during normal fighting - it is something the paladin has to work around). Yes, blms with the right anatomy can lag a paladin, but note my use of the term "reliably" in the previous post - I've never been laglocked by a blm on any character. If the blm's dual wielding for dual counter, then open with a spell because he can't snakespeed (if he's using a two-hander, then open with a flamestrike and soak the devastate-level damage). Also, paladin charge lags the target for two rounds - and works just fine on blms once you blind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erana Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 A well-played blm has a large advantage over a well-played paladin, but it is a moot argument without considering cabal abilities. Even in terms of attrition, the blm can wear down the paladin faster than the reverse. On the other hand, if EQ, prep, or skill are lacking (assuming equality on both sides), the paladin is far better. If we had no cabals to consider, paladins would be an excellent class all round, but as their current design stands, they gain relatively little (as compared to other classes for the cabals they can join) from cabal skills, eq, and services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If we had no cabals to consider' date=' paladins would be an excellent class all round, but as their current design stands, they gain relatively little (as compared to other classes for the cabals they can join) from cabal skills, eq, and services.[/quote'] This has always been my only real problem with the class - all the cabals a paladin can join have their powers based around a charmy. I do not agree that a blm is better at attrition than a paladin, however. The only classes I'd rate as better attrition fighters than a paladin are clerics, healers and shamans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've been laglocked by blademasters before. Diaphram is it? Can't remember. But it was nasty. You're not going to convince me that a paladin can overcome a decently played blademaster easily. Better question is, why can't paladins be in Savant? Clerics can. Hrmmph. I want a Savant Paladin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Because that means DKs can. And no. Just no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've been laglocked by blademasters before. Diaphram is it? Can't remember. But it was nasty. You're not going to convince me that a paladin can overcome a decently played blademaster easily. Better question is, why can't paladins be in Savant? Clerics can. Hrmmph. I want a Savant Paladin. *shrug* My experiences contradict yours, then. Sure, killing the blm is very tough, but I never had trouble fighting them off. And I seem to lead a charmed life when it comes to laglocks, so that may have something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibber Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Clerics and Healers, maybe. Not shamans, (imho).. considering the Paladin should be equipped well enough to thwart any shaman attempts to land any maladies. (-55 to mal or so is easy at lvl50, and easily ruins a shamans day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I meant overall, not in a direct matchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.