Life of a Savant

[tassinvegeta]

Uncheck on the shrink, hehe. Just realized I have no idea about shrink consumables. They aren't on the arena or consumable list. Do they even exist?

Also are gnomes the same size as halflings? Are faeries even smaller than both?

[f0xx]

Eh... don't battlemages have shrink?

I am a BMG noob, don't laugh at me.

[The-Nameless]

RE: Tant

Fighting a gladiator monk while wielding a weapon is asking to lose (I know it SOUNDS stupid, but in practice this is what I developed to combat gladiator monks as an invoker and once I started it it did not fail.) Fight them using a charged stave and no weapon (you ARE stocking up on your healing items right? Cause this is where you use them btw).

[Tantangel]

On my latest Invoker I have a fully charged stave and like three fully charged staffs. I was hoping I could dual wield a fully charged staff AND a fully charged stave at the same time and I ate an UNSPEAKABLE and it knocked me down like 650hp. And then I was charging a staff while holding a fully charged stave and forgot to remove it and got another UNSPEAKABLE and lost about the same amount. And it isn't stupid, BUT if it's a challenge that doesn't really count since it wont end in your death that's the way to go is with a weapon and a few others. I won my challenges pretty easily, though the last one I was a little worried.

[The-Nameless]

I cannot really get heavily into why I choose no weapons, but suffice to say it has to do with cabal perks. Using a weapon vs a class that disarms cursed weapons while using a cabal ability that adds even more annoyance ON TOP of those disarms your looking at having no weapon, OR spells for 1-2 rounds. I would rather 4 call lightnings/fireball/word of recall instead of 2 rounds of being jackie channed free lag to hold me til they crack a Chakra personally.

[Pali]

I have to agree with Nameless. There are a good number of opponents who, as an invoker, you want to approach either wielding no weapon or wielding a basic weapon you don't care about losing while holding onto a charged stave. WM monks and blms, sure, but even certain DKs will require this.

[The Forsaken]

So...as an invoker...go weaponless, and essentially defenseless, against a monk in monkey stance? Yeah...once chii bolt and it's over.

[Warmongrel]

I did pretty well against some pretty tough monks with my dwarf clerics in tribunal. Bysypherus and brendyn and the other i forget. For the longest time it seemed hopeless but you just gotta stay ontop of it and put shields back up as quick as you can. I think out of like 20 fights vs monks i got trip locked to death twice, the rest were either wins for me or draws that we both retreated due to such close battles. One of the times i was triplocked by Azul (sp?). Is on the pk log. None of the wins are though :-P

[The Forsaken]

Atsul(a). It was me. And I got you on water so it was a different story all together. But yes, you handed me my own butt quite often.

[Pali]

So...as an invoker...go weaponless' date=' and essentially defenseless, against a monk in monkey stance? Yeah...once chii bolt and it's over.[/quote']

The monk will get nearly every attack past your parrying even with a staff, assuming he isn't very badly equipped (and even then most will get through). Now, against certain caballed monks or blms is probably the only time I'd say go with no weapon at all (due to how cabal skills mix with their disarms), but against regular monks or blms I'd still recommend using a charged stave and a weapon you don't mind losing because they will be able to disarm it (granted, this depends on their stance, so if you have foreknowledge of what stance they are in switching back to the cursed staff may be best) - and you don't want to care about that ability interfering with your spellcasting, which is FAR more important than your feeble parry skill remaining in operation.

Let me put it this way... you've got a firestorm up. Monk walks in, chii bolts you. If thrash/trip lock works for more than a handful of rounds here, you are dead, no matter what weapon you do or don't have wielded. If it doesn't, however, and you manage to get out early enough to still be at fighting levels of hp and get your prot shield back up, NOW is where it matters what you are or aren't wielding, because now is when the monk won't be able to lag you reliably and will likely be going for other skill options, like disarming. In this case, you want to let him go along the disarming route, because it will have him likely spending two rounds dirt kicking and another two rounds disarming - rounds he is not lagging you, rounds in which you can be spellcasting. Believe it or not, an invoker will almost always massively outdamage a monk in a straight up fight if the chakeras are being blocked by prot shield. The more you have him fighting you without lagging you, the better it is for you.

Against certain combos, yes, not having a weapon at all will actually be better - because chances are they will not have noticed that, will have assumed their attacks are simply getting past your defense, and will still spend the time going for the attempt... and if you are wielding a weapon when they make the attempt, that's free lag for them, AND most likely your best weapon on the ground about to be sacrificed.

It's not a one-size-fits-all solution to a serious problem invokers face... but it IS a solution that applies against certain foes when they are prepped certain ways. If the monk is fighting you in monkey stance and uncaballed, yes, keep the staff out, absolutely. But if he's in the right cabal and in dragon stance... quite often, avoiding the disarm becomes far more important than avoiding the one or two hits a round you would otherwise parry.

[f0xx]

The monk will get nearly every attack past your parrying even with a staff

I stopped here.

That is not true.

You will parry a very good number of attacks if you have half brain as invoker.

click

click

[The-Nameless]

Invokers are the least defensive class in FL. Meaning they will defend less than anything else in the game. High dex races parry more. Try playing a gnome voker with a bounty vs 3 traven kurvikhel. I grabbed insurance ( Hey, I had cabal enemies too!) and he was able to kill my guardian, and me, before the lag from buying insurance wore off.

[f0xx]

That's what you deserve for buying insurance

[The-Nameless]

a GNOME invoker vs Scholin, YOU (as ANOTHER mag resist blm) a scheming shiesty merchant ninja, and Kurvikhel with me bountied. Hrm. I believe I used insurance in a VALID situation.

[f0xx]

Should have killed them all instead

[The-Nameless]

Psi, yes

Invoker, not a gnome. Gnomes are fun, not the most battle hardy race. Kinda fat, and squishy.

[Pali]

I stopped here.

That is not true.

You will parry a very good number of attacks if you have half brain as invoker.

click

click

So you give me a couple of logs where the invoker parries, on average, one or two attacks a round from the actual PC.

quite often' date=' avoiding the disarm becomes far more important than avoiding the one or two hits a round you would otherwise parry.[/quote']

Next time, finish reading. I've played enough invokers to know how good their defenses are or aren't.

[Filth]

Invokers are the least defensive class in FL.

Maybe I'm not understanding you completely, but how are they less defensive than an necro for instance? Or a battlemage. And if anything, battlemages and invokers have plenty of spell to supplement missess done to them in the form of shields, skin, blurs, blades, and enchants. And even more than that the most powerful necro class can't even learn weapons to mastery.

[Pali]

Necros have a lot of charmies, which a smart necro lets take a lot of blows for him. Bmgs, on the other hand, have better defenses when fully prepped than nearly any other class.

[The-Nameless]

A smart necro will have pets taking blows.

Voke gets parry.

Bmg gets blades, terra, blur and parry.

Vokers dont have pets to take blows, or spells to supplement defenses. Hence their output

[Erana]

It is difficult to define what 'defensive' really means.

Invokers have a mechanism to stop rogues that other mages lack. They also have different degrees of magic shields and a total immunity to a whole category of spells and the most powerful weapons.

They tend to be more defensive, in terms of their parry strength, than either bmgs (one hand + item) or necros (almost illithid).

They also can focus more on +hp and -ac than any other mage class.

[The-Nameless]

Also, i have played more invokers than probably anyone left playing fl.

Four gnome

Four drow

Three elf

Two faerie

One Avian

one human

So I'm not spitting nonsense. These tactics have been developed over

Years of play across many races versus many opponents. Anyone who promoted me here knows i generate unique answers to problems we face here.

[Erana]

Playing more of something does not necessarily translate into a definitively superior perspective. There are several cases of people who've played dozens of class/race combos more times than the people who outdo them on their first or second try.

With this line of thinking, the players who have put in the most hours would always be the best. I don't think this is true.

[Filth]

I'm not looking for a cock fight here, I don't question your tactics or knowledge one bit. The strategy is sound and is one I would use. I just don't agree with invokers being the least defensible class in the game. Just my opinion. I more or less just wanted to confirm that is what you meant. The subsequent posts make things a little foggy.

[Pali]

It is difficult to define what 'defensive' really means.

A fair point. I think Nameless and I were looking at it mostly from the "ability to block/avoid melee attacks" perspective (and yes, if those attacks are magic melee attacks, things change ).