Enough is Enough.

[Izzy]

I am tired of monks. There is nothing you can do against them as an Invoker. It just makes me not want to play period.

I am tired of dying the same way over and over and over. Whether its Ashskel, Yiel or whatever his name is.

I am being serious when I say, its fine to have a bane.......but impossible is not a bane, its straight out cheap.

I cant even live if I cast one spell. Its not fair its straight up cheap......end of story post whatever you like, put up Pk logs I blinded the guy with a firestorm and still got destroyed. That was my one spell. I have died 30 times to monks............

[Mindflayer]

Warmaster monks are the true invoker bane. Or Lamah. Tassin's stalker minotaur warrior just had to charge, charge, charge. Two axes coming at your invoker from a decked, hasted warrior hurts.

[jibber]

Lamah versus any caster or communer = dead, no matter what or how you did it.

[Twinblades713]

It's true. I have logs of Dey's monk Scholin laglocking my duergar shaman for 24 rounds. Fortunately Dey was classy as **** about everything he's ever done.

Additionally, Lamah's bane was the old ability of ninjas to be able to keep study after logging out. ;D

[Evangelion]

Monks are a very, very challenging fight for invokers. They are not, by any stretch of the imagination, an impossible fight. And I don't just mean impossible as in you're automatically going to die. I mean it's possible for you to win.

Three things to remember when fighting monks:

1) You have to be VERY careful with your timing. If they get the first move, let them get through air thrash, then start acting - THAT is when you're going to be able to flee, put your protective shield back up, and get back to hellstreaming.

2) You have to be FAST. It is all too easy for them to put their chii bolt back up and start the fight all over again, so once you flee and put your protective shield (and MAYBE fire shield) back up, it's time to get back to putting the pressure on.

3) Know when to bail. If it takes ten or fifteen bouts with a monk (or anyone for that matter) to get into a battle where you're winning and can really go on the offensive, then that's okay. You can't expect to fight everyone like you're a wall of HP that shoots out hellstreams - some fights require a little more tact.

[f0xx]

You are an undead. You have it easier than other invokers.

[jibber]

The above will not work unless you have ~30 nymph hearts, ~30 red and white staves, and other cool curatives.

[Evangelion]

This song pretty much sums up PK in FL:

[Izzy]

Ok I understand what everyone is saying. The point is it shouldn't be this way. I cast one firestorm when the fight started, I blinded the said monk. And I was unable to do anything else as I was fighting Grylok. I had a fire shield up and he caught me on my way to the ford. The point is it's fine had I a mana shield I can somewhat survive and escape. But it should not be about survival. I should be able to fight, not run for my life. Fight ashskel, or this new monk as an invoker. Show me a log. Then we will talk. It should not be you are at awful flee run heal, with seven red staffs put up your shields do it again. As for the charge thing an invoker should never be charged.......firestorm....... Regardless it's a pointless way to fight. feral rangers, minotaur warriors/ beserkers are true bames. Difficult battles. But with brains and prep you can win. Point is Monk vs any invoker.......flee pray you escaped........stupid. Better just to leave the lands. How shi**y is that to.

[The-Nameless]

maybe it should not be that way.

The key factor is it IS that way. What you need to do is stop doing the same thing. Obviously your approaching the PK waiting for things to happen that you know are probably not going to happen. Like him missing/failing skills.

So that leads me to postulate that your not developing abnormal tactics to combat his normal ones. What I mean is this. You expect a Paladin to run off and heal once he is at quite a few wounds/big and nasty. It IS going to happen so you wait for it, and chase as fast as possible. But wait. The tick hits, and he is at big and nasty, and casts a wrath. What now? Do you lag, do you dirt, do you wait for the flee? Suddenly you have to choose things you never had to before, and when your on the spot, you usually make the wrong choice when your choosing between 2-4 skills to use at the time.

So here is my suggestion, be different. Forget everything you know and have been told about invokers, THEN look over the skill/spell list and see what you did not see before. Just because you can't win the PK does not mean you can't win the war. PK is a part of cabal life, but the Cabal helpfiles say nearly nothing regarding fighting your opposing cabals, coincidence? I think not.

Actually, send me a PM. I can enlighten you a bit as to what will throw your opponent off. The key to victory here is not killing all your opponents, it is not letting your opponents kill you. You need to figure THAT out. Your a Savant, your supposed to be a home for amazing ideas, and concepts that would never occur to a lesser mortal.

[jibber]

I'd agree that it shouldn't be this way as well. But then again, I'd also agree that it's pretty LAME that an invoker can heal thousands of hps in a single fight because of nymph hearts, red & white staves, and other cool healing items.

Personally, I think it's okay to do this with a monk (and I think that's why said curatives were even added, tbh), being they can literally kill you and you not be able to put in a single command. However, when they use it against other classes, that's when there's a problem. In this, perhaps chakeras, and stance-damaging could have a lot of other factors instead of just luck and hitroll. Or perhaps monks could have something else other than depending on chakeras to kill people. Perhaps more stances, more offensive tactics, and not something that's just plain dependant on lagging someone completely to win, even if they go through all the steps to be un-laggable.

[Izzy]

I dont even know how to respond to that post. I am going to try a new tactic. When a monk comes on forget rp. Quit. I have tried them all. 30 deaths from monks. If I am attacked, do nothing wait and pray I flee. Run for life, hide like a girl quit and fight a battle thats worth fighting and not cheap. Show me a log of an invoker fighting a monk, not one where the monk does nothing, one where invoker is hit with a full chii bolt monk is in invoker killing stance, invoker's cused weapons are disarmed, invoker comes back to win. I have killed monks. Not one that knows exactly what to do, to kill invoker.

[Pali]

Ok I understand what everyone is saying. The point is it shouldn't be this way.

I agree. I have never been a fan of how focused monks are on lag (as a general rule I'm not a fan of any combo that is built around lag) - I would much prefer it if they were redesigned as a class to have other strengths and abilities that are NOT dependent on lagging the enemy.

But, I neither make nor pay for this game, so I consider the level of griping I am justified in doing to be pretty small.

[Anume]

Monks are a class very very seldomly called overpowered if you go through the threads for a bit.

Pk log added. I'd like to see one of Geoffram vs Achskel personally, perhaps the players can put one on prayer for posting.

Sidenote: I completely suck with invokers. This does not mean that invokers are a bad class though

[-Totenkopf-]

Crackala, if you are getting schooled by a non-wm monk then you probably just need to adjust tactics a little.

I think WM monks could prob use a bit of a debuff. Some WM skills should have slightly different or be more or less effective dependant on class I think, as some combos are just unreal.

Option 2 is roll a vampire. I ate monks for breakfast, lunch and tea. Usually all on the same day.

[Mmm Coffee]

On the flip-side, invokers can completely destroy high-AC classes with a call-lightning spell that enables you to dish out *** CAPS *** damage 4 times in one round with a charged staff.

Is that fair?

[-Totenkopf-]

Remove some EQ, thats what everyone does in that situation. Not like you need to rely on AC vs an invoker anyway.

[Izzy]

I must just suck then seeing as I can cast one spell and just die.

[Mindflayer]

On the flip-side, invokers can completely destroy high-AC classes with a call-lightning spell that enables you to dish out *** CAPS *** damage 4 times in one round with a charged staff.

Is that fair?

Pains in my HIGH AC HAVING ARSE!

[The Forsaken]

You are an undead. You have it easier than other invokers.

That's not true at all....

[f0xx]

That's not true at all....

Isn't it?

[Pali]

That's not true at all....

Against a monk? Yes he does.

[The-Nameless]

Getting lagged 10-12 rounds is very annoying I agree.

I have logs, and I know several others do too, of me being lagged 40+ rounds and I was a fire giant.

What I was trying to say is you do not have to ever fight the monk, There are things you can do that will confuse any opponent (Read your cabal skills). All you have to do is retrieve standard, a far easier task than clearing out the halls of WM.

The reason I say try something new is you are obviously frustrated, and continue doing the same things in an effort to force it to work once or twice. It, also, has obviously not worked.

If his tactics are painful, then how about you cast firestorm, and flee the moment he walks in the room. Hell set a trigger to flee as soon as he walks in. Sure it would take a while, but it does as much as you can to deal damage, and prevent that laglock.

[The Forsaken]

Against a monk? Yes he does.

Not especially. He can't be getting lag locked by simply air thrash and trip 30+ times.

[The-Nameless]

An invoker (espescially a lower dex one) will not last 30 rounds vs a decently armed monk. The typical lock range for me was 15 give or take. Add in some glad T skills and it gets shorter lol.

And a barb monk ( I realize that this thread was about a gladiator) can lag *anything* pretty much start to finish unless a skill misses (even then the lock can persist) without the other being able to enter a single command that goes through.