[50 Dwarf Cle] <PK> [KNIGHT] (Hope [L]) Sir Anamus the Regent of the Castle

[Celerity]

I've given this thread some time to saturate, so I'm going to make my responses now:

First, to all the people that sent me PMs, you should post those PMs in the thread. Those are the kind of things that the players and especially the staff need to hear, just so we can get a feeling on what the playerbase feels about certain topics.

My most prominent memory with Anamus was when I fought you with Nashmurlan. We were in the veiled water room, near the Knight cabal that had one exit. We fought and my malform suddenly dispelled you, dropping your flight, protective shield and some of your protections, but leaving your sanctuary up. THEN I got the shakes. That was a one in a million opportunity I knew I would NEVER get again. I was literally up from my chair timing trip and shouting "DIE B!TCH!!" Somehow you managed to flee and escape at awful (IIRC) though

I remember it, and it wasn't good for me. I'm sure you (and all other DKs) will be happy to know my argument got the goblin lieutenant nerfed. That thing was a monster.

You've got a lot more plot experience than I do, but I will have to disagree about not getting involved with plots. For me, it's the saving grace of the game. Getting to 50 and doing mindless cabal warfare is boring to me.

Ditto on the cabal warfare. As for the plots, your next point is what is really the key here:

Being able to change an interactive landscape is important.

I would argue that it isn't the plots that are the saving grace, but the ability to change and influence things. We play this game because we like sandbox-style games, no other type of gamer would invest so much time as we do. This is why games like Mount&Blade will also appeal to our playerbase.

The problem is that your influence is very limited, and this is what makes cabal warfare mindless-->there is no progression. Yes, you can change things through plots (your Hamlet example), but in the end, things will return to the status quo. Everything is done and progresses in such a way that the end result will always be where we started. We can beat up a cabal, but you know they'll be back. You can influence an area, but it will either be cosmetic (restring a few mobs) OR it will be counteracted by something else (Hamlet joins Tribunal because Rheydin is blown up: three cities...). There is no possibility to change the dynamic of the game world, which is what we really want to do. Good luck uniting the lands as the One King.

Lots of elites are disgruntled because they're playing to beat a game you can't beat. Just play for the moment of the character, and I think it will be more fun.

After a certain point, you gotta realize you're only playing for you and not for tangible rewards.

I would strongly disagree with both of these statements. First, playing in the moment is the mindlessness we were talking about before. You play an RP/PK game with RP/PK goals, but our problem is that RP goals are just a joke, because the game itself operates in a time-loop single moment. Nobody really believes they will accomplish what they set out to do with their character (on the big end; e.g. destroy Nexus).

The second statement, we don't play this game for ourselves. This is a community-driven game. I certainly don't make a character to see if I can rank up to 50 or beat the mobs in some areas. People make characters to PK, and to a lesser extent, RP. You play this game to improve the community, and ultimately, the game itself. The static environment (in terms of RP and in code changes) completely destroys the game AND community. We get stuck with the personality-type that enjoys mindless PK, leading to the aforementioned 'elitism' and 'newbie-unfriendliness' that everybody knows exists here.

I may get a bit of hate for saying this, but perhaps it's time to integrate age death with characters? Say, once you hit roughly 500 hours, you rapidly decline (depending on race) and eventually age death? I dunno, seems like a suitable fix.

As the person who argued for the change that got rid of character aging, I would strongly say: No!

On the balance side: this is a mess to design, as it will inevitably favor classes and races, usually the ones that tend to be survivable in the first place.

On the philosophical side: we should be working to fix our design fault and expand the options for character progression. The problem isn't slow turnover, it is that characters will stagnate. Adding predetermined death

only makes this worse. We should be adding stuff to do, not covering up our problem and forcing people out of it.

1.) Predetermination of RP plots; It is true that the results of a wide-reaching RP plot are often (but not always) decided on in advance. In my view, this is often necessary. The fantasy tools we employ in attempts to bring the game to life are large and (in the case of global plots) world-threatening. And so, we decide we'd like the world to continue to exist, rather be destroyed by said nasty.

I don't think anybody agrees that the game world should be destroyed. The problem is the cyclical nature. The pre-determination by itself is not that bad, but returning to zero after every plot is. The world does not develop.

this is stimied by the hard-ceiling of keeping the world going, and the fact that, often, only a hand-full of players actually get wholly involved in RP plots. To say that they don't want to participate solely because they feel like nothing they do will matter is, in my opinion, false. It may be one of many factors that contribute to lack of participation. Motivating players to become involved in RP both big and small is something I'm very interested in dissecting, and improving, so hopefully more will be done about this in the future.

It isn't just nihilism that stops players from participating. It is the threat of character loss (skills taken away, deaths) that also come with IMM attention. Most importantly, the time-scale inhibits. You guys simply move too slowly (or PK hits them) and characters are abandoned.

I don't want to seem like I'm ignoring the rest of Volg's post, but it gets into RP theory that I have no real dispute with. The other points about organization/balance etc. we agree-->it isn't there or can't be done by the staff.

As far as the IMM-driven RP plots, I can agree to you for the most part. Hatril had a hard-on trying to get the Maelbrim plot screwed up, and asked for a refund MANY times, put it it a vote, addressed both cabal IMM's who said along the lines of 'ok', and nothing ever happened. I understand though, building an area like that takes TIME, and after TIME is invested, it's hard to turn it all around and start over.

Ditto again. Thanks for being one of the only people to play an antagonist, very refreshing. Although probably it was most refreshing after I stopped talking to you.

Most games will have you going bored far under those 500 hours. I'd say FL is a step up in many ways

Good point, and you have to pay for those games as well. My only qualifier is to remember that we invest in this game by doing things we don't like for the greater community/game. We would never do that in a single-player game outside of modding or something. So the comparison isn't quite right.

Maybe try to create your own plot and make Anamus go to the darkside. I'm sure that'll create a whole new experience. Darth Anamus mwahahaha.

I already had my own plot: Maelbrim! Last thing I would ever want to do is give the IMMs some excuse to pick and choose my skills again (outcast), lest I end up like Kayhalar. Those kind of shifts mean the loss of your PK ability, and without PK, you cannot have lasting influence in FL outside of some very narrow niches.

Not sure if you proved how OP clerics are. You are afterall playing one qclass/qrace so your view might be misconstrued. But if you believe they are maybe you can expand upon it a little bit more for those of us who don't see it as easily?

You have the HP of a warrior, the greatest damage reduction in the game, a spell that hits for invoker damage and mals, great healing ability, unlaggable, a way to lag or cut regen (evil) or the best chasing ability in the game (good), immune to most spells, and doesn't need much EQ or consumables.

When you have an L position, play or leave, period. I believe L players should have more of a time commitment to be able to keep their position and their eq.

Yeah, I had some ~1500 hours. Or do you mean on a month-by-month basis? I was around for about two years. You do the math. You could double the requirements and Anamus would've still been fine.

I'm either around too much and suppressing Nexus or not around enough and hoarding EQ. Some people are never happy.

A character with 1443 hours that is still in the prime of their health... this says to me you weren't really playing the game, not in the way I feel it is meant to be played, anyway.

Really? Looks like I was playing it exactly how it was -designed- to be played, if I am surviving so well. Maybe I'm not adhering to your philosophical standpoint of needing to die, however.

Anamus was just too careful to enjoy fighting.

Again, honestly? With that combination, you barely have to flee out of fights, much less log out or avoid them. I don't think I played particularly cautiously at all. I did with Kaylia, on the other hand...

We even killed you once when you made a few mistakes, but the stupid cabal spell interfered

You contradicted yourself again. I killed him, but he didn't die. That is a lot like saying I killed him, but his wimpy kicked in and he lived. Riiiight.

As for the mistakes, the only mistake in that situation was to attack the Nexus cabal (not retrieve, how cautious of me!) in a 3vs1 with these defenders:

1. A monk

2. A fire zerk

3. A demon DK

When the monk chii bolts your protective shield and the zerk/DK spam enlarged lag, the only mistake possible was entering the room (aka not being cautious!). The rest was a lagfest--but I lived.

and of course you were not to be seen again during that session.

Actually, I was. I went back after that (again, being overly-cautious). I got out of there with about 30 HP the second time. And then the three Nexians logged off, not me.

It is one thing to legitimately criticize a character. It is another to outright lie. Shame on you Mali, really.

One pdeath (assassination before Sigil) is a bit extreme for so many hours. I know you're also a very careful player, f0xx, but I agree that sometimes it is more fun to go all out and take a couple risks.

Extreme in what sense? Extremely cautious? Extremely imbalanced? It doesn't sound like you meant it in a positive way.

You are also getting into the philosophical side of things, but as the IMP, if you want to encourage people to take more risks so they die or whatever, you need to give them incentives, because we have every incentive as a player and character to NOT die.

I think that I landed the assassinate ;D

Which also should never be possible again with the method you used (no more keeping your study on damage if you flee the first round).

Maybe if it took 3 months for a character of Anamus' ability to get L I would agree - Then if you gave up L there would be some hope for achieving something else on another characer/another area. As the ranking system stands - GTFO. I wouldnt be giving that up after that much time invested.

Agreed, and also, leader wasn't my goal, so it didn't really matter to me either way in regards to the cabal position. But if anybody still listens to Mali, that is their problem.

Having played a knight under Anamus, there was virtually no leadership and limited character interaction other than "hello, goodbye".

And if you were who I think you were, what did you really expect me to do when your own RP is to shake your *** in my face (blatantly OOC, trollish thing to do to your leader) and try to seduce me? I should have expelled you, but instead, I kind of ignored you like I didn't understand and kept on talking about whatever.

Mali, take a good look at your own RP and playing style first.

[f0xx]

Marry me.

[Mali]

Hmm, guess I wasn't who you thought I was

As for the rest of your post:

You're entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.

[Pali]

*facepalm*

[Ayroduth]

In my case, Anamus was inflicted with cancer (without a speck of RP from the staff), making it so that whenever he drank anything, his thirst was not quenched and he took damage. That means zero regen and constantly taking big damage from thirst. I only survived by abusing the arena to restore myself. This was fixed after several days to just hurt Anamus when he drank alcohol--but even then, why? I was told by an IMP that it was 'funny' and that I didn't need my alcoholic perk anyways. This was never expanded upon by the staff, he kept his 'cancer' until the end, and this continues to be one of the most sharply negative memories of my playing experience.

 

 

It saddens me when I go back and read something like this. Why exactly was Anamus given "cancer"?

[Anume]

Imm in question is no longer part of the staff. Personally, I do not know this situation, so I won't comment.

[Ayroduth]

I only brought it up because I never saw it before. That is just crazy!

[The Professor]

you've always made great characters, in my opinion, Celerity. not only from a pk perspective, but an rp perspective. you've killed a few characters of mine over several of your incarnations and though I found each experience a bit different, I never considered them lacking in rp reason or cheap. (though, Kaylia was one sneaky pain in the behind... never hated assassination so much.) even Kaylia (doing her duty as it were) who would be expected to be a silent killer, had several conversations with my characters and remained classy before and after you slaughtered me.

 

 

Celerity: 

I already had my own plot: Maelbrim! Last thing I would ever want to do is give the IMMs some excuse to pick and choose my skills again (outcast), lest I end up like Kayhalar. Those kind of shifts mean the loss of your PK ability, and without PK, you cannot have lasting influence in FL outside of some very narrow niches.

I feel that really hits the nail on the head for what has been a personal issue between me and FL, but I think things are finally changing where rp is becoming as important as pk. 

though, I've experienced some of the same things you've had to struggle with (character being gimped due to getting involved with rp... or dying being the usual outcome of an rp plot) like you, most of my characters, (unless they're truly chaotic or utterly apathetic) tend to be cautious... 'cause, like a real person would, they want to survive. of course... I'm digressing here... but I use to avoid ever posting on the forums, because I haven't mastered the mechanics of the game and would inevitably be flamed for my opinions... so, a lot of things went under the radar... that brought about my departure a time or two. I felt like, whatever the issue, I could either tolerate it or move on... that as a player I didn't matter as much as other players. eventually I got over that and made the point to post whatever I wanted, regardless of the consequences. low and behold, the Staff really do consider what all the players have to say (probably more so now than ever) I've come to find that communicating with the Staff yields more positive results than anything else. which you clearly do, Celerity, and quite articulately as well. now that you've brought some of your grievances to light, I'm sure your future experiences will be more enjoyable. 

[ledgerbay]

Still waiting on that pm, cel ;